Luis Suárez

[Potroh]

[MENTION=21136]Potroh[/MENTION] nice post about Valverde.
But I have no idea what it has to do with my post about 30-years long Barca's history of similar failures, buying superstars and in overall: player's failures who were awesome in smaller/different clubs.

Well, I've told you that I'm too young of a Barca follower to say anything about 20-30 years of history.
Nevertheless, besides I tend to agree with many of your general statements (without knowing Barca's history), and you yourself tend to come up with problems related to individual players and their usefulness in Barca shirt, as if tactical and strategic failures wouldn't even exist.

I've already told you: many of your views and analytical notions come from the single fact, that you are extremely result-oriented.
You are familiar with numbers, results can be statistically expressed by numbers, so you translate the game-play to numbers, which cannot be actually done.

For you, a 2 years period when nice football was played, means nothing if the given titles and trophies weren't won.
Unfortunately the footballing world doesn't work like that.

The team who puts its captain to a stage and he yields into a microphone: "This season our aim is to win the xyz tournament", he simply misguides the crowd.
A team can only wish to win those titles, if the actual game-play (that consists all 54373899 elements) is fluid, natural, strainless, creative, and the best among all, etc.

Why did Greece win an EC? Tell me please. Why Portugal won the last one? Was the French team the best at the WC? Was German football the best when their NT had won everything for years?
Why Hungary lost the 1954 WC against an opponent that they easily knocked during the first stage? Why did Real Madrid win the CL 3 times?

You may give some answers to all these, but you simply CAN NOT express the reasons in numbers, because numbers don't mirror a bad referee, an accidental slip of the best defender in rain, childish mistakes by great goalkeepers, lucky goals, bad circumstances, having a bad day, and always incalculable penalties.

The best teams, who know they play the best game, always say, if they are humble: "we play nicely, so we do our best to win the title". That's nice. That's humble.
But playing in a declining team, that fights for a draw against bottom-table league opponents and have the most ambitious aim??? it's silly.
Why? Because winning the important titles also depends on many luck-factors, referees, nowadays VAR, injuries, weather, humidity, temperature and other factors. Other things that cannot be put into numbers and even tendencies.

Usually you come up with numbers, partly historical numbers, which have little to nothing to do with the dusting present Barca. You see many things rightly, except the main cause right in front of your nose: Valverde and the board, but mainly Valverde.
Barca flounders because of Valverde and before all due to Valverde.
That's why I wrote the small list, trying to sum up why he is one of the probable worst coaches for this team. Could be okay for another mediocre team. But Barca?
You asked if Valverde was THE problem, so I simply answered that with a capital affirmative.

You never write about the tactics, because either you're uninterested in those things or you handle a well working tactical system as being secondary.
It is not. That's why analyzing EV's effect is much more important than analyzing stats of Arthur vs Rakitic, Dembele's sanity or any other individual players. Players play in a system. If the system is bad, they will also play bad.
Pep is a talented coach so he plays different and different systems with every different teams of his. Flexibility and invention. Creativity to see eleven individual players as a team... Creating a fluid system that surprises every opponent.
Fluid system at Barca today?
Surprises? Creativity? Come on... You can easily hear the cranking teeth of every player when the stadium is quiet.

 

[BBZ8800]

Valverde is a problem.
But regardless of Valverde, roughly 60-70% of all signings will flop here because Barca is a different world and a No1 tier of clubs.

Even Pep had a similar percentage of flops where players whom he bought, from this or that reason, played worse at Barca than in their previous clubs.

Zlatan, Fabregas, Alexis, Chyngry, Affellay, Hleb...

So, to make it simpler:
1. Even if we have the best coach here, majority of transfers will turn as flops and won't reach expectations
2. If you have Valverde, it will be even worse

So, I am not actually defending EV in this case.
The point is: this problem is a different story and we will always have a similar amount of bad transfers as long as we are one of top 3-4 clubs in the world.

Dembele came from a smaller club where he was a key player.
Malcom came from a Mickey Mouse club where he was a key player.
Coutinho came from a club who hasn't won a league title for 30 years.
Semedo came from Portugal.
Griezz came from a club where he was a main star and who didn't win titles with him.
Etc

Smaller clubs
Different country
They were key players
Pressure and expectations are higher here
They were fixed starters there
They had more confidence
They played on different positions

 

[Potroh]

Valverde is a problem.
But regardless of Valverde, roughly 60-70% of all signings will flop here because Barca is a different world and a No1 tier of clubs.

I'm happy you admitting Valverde as a problem, as he really is.

60-70% of all signings will flop? Maybe. Less important starlets or young talents. But why do the big & expensive names flop too?
Barca is a different world? Why is that so? Why does Barca see the entire football world overtake them with a smile?

Barca by now is just trying to find its place in a considerably different footballing environment. Mediocre teams with young and ambitious coaches can do things, that only Barca could do some years ago.
- They are better physically. They can run more.
- They can play possession when needed.
- They can conjure up deadly dangerous attacking formulas or counters by just having 3 touches.
- They concentrate on the pitch when Barca players are thinking of their wives and wages.
- They can attack with 8 players and defend with nine.

Why is Barca different from anyone else? Because they tend to let themselves to think that they have Messi, and by that they are on Messi's level?
If Barca is a "different world" that is a huge problem, because the external world is never static, they won't stop to pay homage to Barca and play a frightened game against them all the time.

My best ever NT coach used to tell us, when I was very young: "It's not talent alone that makes a good player outstanding, but it is talent and AMBITION...".

 

[Givenchy]

Valverde is a problem.
But regardless of Valverde, roughly 60-70% of all signings will flop here because Barca is a different world and a No1 tier of clubs.

Even Pep had a similar percentage of flops where players whom he bought, from this or that reason, played worse at Barca than in their previous clubs.

Zlatan, Fabregas, Alexis, Chyngry, Affellay, Hleb...

So, to make it simpler:
1. Even if we have the best coach here, majority of transfers will turn as flops and won't reach expectations
2. If you have Valverde, it will be even worse

So, I am not actually defending EV in this case.
The point is: this problem is a different story and we will always have a similar amount of bad transfers as long as we are one of top 3-4 clubs in the world.

Dembele came from a smaller club where he was a key player.
Malcom came from a Mickey Mouse club where he was a key player.
Coutinho came from a club who hasn't won a league title for 30 years.
Semedo came from Portugal.
Griezz came from a club where he was a main star and who didn't win titles with him.
Etc

Smaller clubs
Different country
They were key players
Pressure and expectations are higher here
They were fixed starters there
They had more confidence
They played on different positions

there will come a time in the near future though where Barca are no longer this 'different world'.. we no longer have Xaviesta, Busi is coming to the end as is the GOAT. we don't have Pep, the golden generation is all but over. one of the things i used to agree with you on was Barca needing to get with the times. not saying we put more Rabiots in midfield, i want us to stick with the Barca way but it needs updating. clearly EV isn't the man to build a team

back to back bottle jobs in Europe has broken many of our players i feel. heck, this season.. say we are 4-0 up in the first leg at home vs a City/Juve type team, i wouldn't bank on us protecting that lead, its more likely we end up bottling it. very curious to see how we deal with that type of situation this year if it arises, as a 3rd time is soul destroying for Barca

 

[EdmondDantes]

Better first touch today. Hopefully Luis keeps it up.

 

[ronniecro]

fourth all time scorer for barca,congratulations gordo,keep on banging them please

 

[CatalinR10]

actually he seemed on point , looked a bit faster aswell

 

[Vilarrubi]

Yeah he looked quality tbf, his link up play with Messi was on point! Keep it up Luís!

 

[BBZ8800]

Why is Barca different from anyone else? Because they tend to let themselves to think that they have Messi, and by that they are on Messi's level?
If Barca is a "different world" that is a huge problem, because the external world is never static, they won't stop to pay homage to Barca and play a frightened game against them all the time.

My best ever NT coach used to tell us, when I was very young: "It's not talent alone that makes a good player outstanding, but it is talent and AMBITION...".

This is not about Messi.
There are just levels of quality and expectations in football.

Imo, Tier 1 today is: Barca, Real
Tier 2: Bayern, City, Liverpool, Juve etc
Tier 3: Man Utd, Psg etc

Someone will say: City/Liverpool is at a same tier as Barca.
Well, imo, they aren't, because of expactations, income, sponsors and similar.
At Barca, fans and media are expecting EVERY TROPHY every season: La Liga, Copa, CL.
At City, you can't say that they are forced to win a CL every season since they almost never even reach semis.

The same was in 90s and in 00s pre-Messi.
Tier 1 were: Milan, Juve, Barca, Real and maybe Man utd/Bayern.
But Barca, our income, quality of players and expectations were always either a tier 1 consisted of 2-3 clubs or a tier 1 consisted of 5-6 clubs.

Now, if you apply this theory, it means that majority of players signed by Barca are coming from a lesser team, with lower income, less fans, less media coverage and lesser expectations that at Barca.
ONLY if we sign a superstar player from Real or Juve, that player is coming from a similar level.
For example: Rivaldo came from Deportivo. He came to a bigger club.
R9 came from Psv. He came from a small club.
Ronaldinho came from a 10th placed Psg. He came from a weaker club.
Deco came from Porto. The same.
Etoo came from Mallorca.
Guily came from Monaco.
Romario came from Brasil etc.

Basically, all players whom we sign are:
1. either from small clubs, like from Brasil, Psv, Sevilla, Valencia or random French clubs.
2. or are coming from bigger European teams, who are still way weaker and with lower expectations and pressure than Barca, like players from Dortmund, Psg, Arsenal or even Atletico.

In that sense, a no1 problem is:
1. players are coming from smaller club to Barca. That is a huge step and majority of players will never be able to surpass it
2. the second problem, as explained: those players are usually KEY players in smaller clubs (like Alexis at Udinese, Malcom at Bordeaux, Dembele at Dormund, Arthur at Gremio).
And now, when you already have a superstar team (Barca) and when you buy 5 new players who were key players in their teams, we have an obvious problem:
Barca can have only 2-3 key players and yet we have 15 players in our team who were ALL key players in their teams.
That means that players like Dembele, Malcom, Alexis, Arthur have to adapt from being an absolute key players of their teams=into being one of 10 or 15 "normal" players at Barca.
And again, only some players are able to make that step and adapt to this new level where they aren't key players anymore.
3. no3, for foreign players=they are coming to a new country, new culture, play against new opponents with different formations, tactics and styles
4. further, another thing, for example, Couitnho=he wasn't awesome at Liverpool from the day 1. He needed 2-3 seasons to adapt, to learn their system, to adapt to EPL opponents, to find his place and automatism in Liverpool's team.
And now, when he comes to Barca, fans and media are expecting for him to click after 6 Months.
But, he needed 2-3 years at Liverpool. Yet here, we need results and adaptation RIGHT NOW, RIGHT AWAY.
Griezmman didn't click with AM from the day 1. He needed some time to fit into their system.
Yet here, he is dead for us (for me too) after 2 Months.
Well, this is Barca in a nutshell.

So, I am not talking about Messi at all.
We had this problem since always.
Of course, in a current era, it is even bigger. But the problem was also here in 90s and 00s.

I have wrote in previous posts, that in some cases we even had players who played well under 1 manager in smaller clubs and sucked under the same manager at Barca.
For example, Jari Litmanen and Ronald De Boer.
Van Gaal was a coach for 6 years at Ajax and even won a CL with their young team, with Barca's DNA football in 1995.
Then Van Gaal came to Barca in 1997 and bought a lot of players from his Ajax team.
And now, people would think:
1. those players were world class at Ajax and they won a CL
2. they will be coached by Van Gaal, the same coach, so they will easily translate their form from Ajax into Barca
3. plus, Barca and Ajax play a similar style, so there shouldn't be any problems

Jari Litmanen at Ajax was the best Finnish player in a history.
And in that season, he was probably a top3 player in the world.
He played as a CAM-false 9-CF.
Here are 2 videos of Litmanen and Ajax from 1995:
Ajax won a CL, and in that season they won against AC Milan twice in a group stage and AGAIN in the final.
And AC Milan were reigning champions who won against Barca with 4:0 in 1994'.
And this Ajax's team won 3 times against them in 1995.

Some of highlights from that season:

Litmanen was banging goals like crazy, creating, assisting, dribbling.
And he was not a one season wonder. He was doing this at Ajax for several years under Van Gaal.
So, it was right to expect insane performances from him at Barca under Van Gaal (Van Gaal bought Litmanen, Kluivert, Frank De Boer, Ronald De Boer from Ajax plus other Dutch players: GK Hesp, defender Bogarde, midfielder Cocu, winger Zenden).
On paper, it seemed that Van Gaal will easily replicate a success from Ajax.
But what happened? We were eliminated 2 times in his 3 years in GROUP STAGE of a CL.
With defeats 0:4 and 0:3 to teams like Dynamo Kiev.
How? Hard to explain...

Regarding Litmanen, Ronald De Boer and lots of Dutch players, they were total fails here.
Why?
Again, it is hard to explain. But the pattern is repeating all the time.

Regarding Litmanen, this is what Van Gaal said:

Litmanen also failed to adapt to his new conditions, and he was one of the players dropped by Van Gaal that winter. Van Gaal later expressed his disappointment with Litmanen at Barcelona.

"Players count for nothing, the team is everything. I set more store by a player's character than by his on-field qualities, and particularly whether he is willing to give everything to the cause. There are some incredibly talented players who haven't got the character or the personality to suit my methods. Litmanen, for example, was a different player at Barca than he was at Ajax. You have to adapt to a new culture when you move to a different club, and not every player is able to do that."
After an unsuccessful season, Van Gaal was replaced by Lorenzo Serra Ferrer, and Litmanen was frozen out of the team, losing the number 10 shirt to Rivaldo, although he remained at the club until January 2001, when he moved to Liverpool on a free transfer.

So, for example: Litmanen was one of the best players in the world at Ajax.
He was a key player, a leader, a superstar in that club.
When he came to Barca, he was just "one of the guys".
And also: at Ajax=if you win titles=fine.
If not=oh, well.

While at Barca=people expected wonders and leadership from him in every match, right here right now.
He wasn't able to adapt fast and then fans and media started to pressure him and he lost all confidence.
And yet again, he played under the same coach, Van Gaal at Ajax and Van Gaal at Barca.

There are lots of similar stories during our past, which are the textbook examples of=Barca is another world or another planet.
A totally different rules and expectations apply here.
You need to be perfect in terms of footballing skills, fit body and not injury prone and extremely mentally strong (and most often: you need to play out of your classical position).

 

[Messigician]

Bbz vs potroh is one of the more interesting debates on this forum.

 

[Potroh]

This is not about Messi.
There are just levels of quality and expectations in football.

That's fine, I mention Messi just as a kind of "quality token", that most people compare Barca to.
You can ask though, if Messi weren't born to this planet at all, how would have Barca looked for over a decade? Not by just measuring the quantities of titles and trophies, but that typical game-play that you also come round from different angles.

That would be an easy ball, as obviously without Messi things would have been very different. Essentially different.

If you hear experts, ex-footballers, all the so called connoisseurs, when they talk about Barca, actually they talk about Messi. He is the actual difference, the actual founding stone of contemporary Barca, without him the team would be very good, often fruitful but that's all.
Barca's peculiarity is summed up in Messi, he is the emblem of this peculiarity in single person.

Does Jordi Alba, or Rakitic, or Arthur, or Suarez represent this stylistic peculiarity? I seriously doubt it. It's Messi and Messi alone.
He is GOAT, but it's not just that. He has his footsteps on the Barca mentality and game-play, just as Ronaldinho had a bit earlier.
But what is his secret, his peculiarity?
Apart from being great or even greater, loyal to a single club, etc., his peculiarity is BEING SOUTH-AMERICAN, with all ingredients of the legendary south-American football tradition.
Technical perfection, vision, imagination, fantasy, etc., that makes him the leading force in a typically European club.

Ronaldinho or the MSN (as a rare constellation in the game's history), individually Suarez, Neymar, Alves or Mascherano (even Bravo, who was much better around the treble in the league than Ter Stegen in CL) all these players represent that peculiar south-American flavor that made Barca different from the physical German or English football, or from the always defense-oriented Italian one.

Messi is tied to Suarez and Neymar, because they are from the same tradition, same continent. Same football.

You say Brazilian teams are 3rd class. Not exactly but why is it so? Because there is more money in European football, so for 30-40 years or so talented south-Americans come to Europe and earn four time more. Brazilian, Argentinian football would be in par with Europe, if their best players weren't lured to this continent.

But back to your question, why is Barca so unique? Frankly I don't see why it would be, apart from what I tried to explain above.
Possession-based play? Forget about it, it's outdated for many years by now. Then what else? Never having any 1st tier coaches apart from the mediocre ex-players? It's not an advantage, it's a disadvantage. What else? LaMasia that sometimes works for the first team and sometimes (inevitably) not?

You say "players coming from "smaller clubs". In what sense are those smaller? Talents are not the similar talents, regardless where they come from?
I think it is a sort of unhealthy cast-system of clubs you try to create there.

There are lots of similar stories during our past, which are the textbook examples of=Barca is another world or another planet.
A totally different rules and expectations apply here.
You need to be perfect in terms of footballing skills, fit body and not injury prone and extremely mentally strong (and most often: you need to play out of your classical position).

I think all of these criteria are simply false. Even mythical, if it better suits your agenda.
- I'm a Barca follower, but never thought the club would be another world or planet. It's a nice club that is deadly rich and makes the very same mistakes as anyone elsewhere.
- Rules might be slightly different but it's normal. Nothing extraordinary I guess.
- "perfect in terms of footballing skills, fit body and not injury prone and extremely mentally strong" stands for all serious, ambitious and professional clubs.

- The remark: "you need to play out of your classical position" is simply lacks interpretability. A good coach tries to play all his players in THEIR BEST positions, regardless where they played previously.
The mentality of "make room for legends or other expensive players" mentality is absolute bullshit, works against the club's own interests.
If a utility player Roberto becomes a great RB, it can be an exception. But if he shows and demonstrates it for 3 (!) years that he is NOT a defender, it is nothing else but stupidity, contumaciousness and impracticability, to say the least.
If a good no. 10 like Griezmann comes and the coach (with very low-IQ as you would term it) says: "...he is left footed, so it's natural he plays on the left..." it has nothing to do with tradition or the greatness of the club, it is mere stupidity in itself.

 

[serghei]

This is not about Messi.
There are just levels of quality and expectations in football.

Imo, Tier 1 today is: Barca, Real
Tier 2: Bayern, City, Liverpool, Juve etc
Tier 3: Man Utd, Psg etc

Someone will say: City/Liverpool is at a same tier as Barca.
Well, imo, they aren't, because of expactations, income, sponsors and similar.
At Barca, fans and media are expecting EVERY TROPHY every season: La Liga, Copa, CL.
At City, you can't say that they are forced to win a CL every season since they almost never even reach semis.

The same was in 90s and in 00s pre-Messi.
Tier 1 were: Milan, Juve, Barca, Real and maybe Man utd/Bayern.
But Barca, our income, quality of players and expectations were always either a tier 1 consisted of 2-3 clubs or a tier 1 consisted of 5-6 clubs.

Now, if you apply this theory, it means that majority of players signed by Barca are coming from a lesser team, with lower income, less fans, less media coverage and lesser expectations that at Barca.
ONLY if we sign a superstar player from Real or Juve, that player is coming from a similar level.
For example: Rivaldo came from Deportivo. He came to a bigger club.
R9 came from Psv. He came from a small club.
Ronaldinho came from a 10th placed Psg. He came from a weaker club.
Deco came from Porto. The same.
Etoo came from Mallorca.
Guily came from Monaco.
Romario came from Brasil etc.

Basically, all players whom we sign are:
1. either from small clubs, like from Brasil, Psv, Sevilla, Valencia or random French clubs.
2. or are coming from bigger European teams, who are still way weaker and with lower expectations and pressure than Barca, like players from Dortmund, Psg, Arsenal or even Atletico.

In that sense, a no1 problem is:
1. players are coming from smaller club to Barca. That is a huge step and majority of players will never be able to surpass it
2. the second problem, as explained: those players are usually KEY players in smaller clubs (like Alexis at Udinese, Malcom at Bordeaux, Dembele at Dormund, Arthur at Gremio).
And now, when you already have a superstar team (Barca) and when you buy 5 new players who were key players in their teams, we have an obvious problem:
Barca can have only 2-3 key players and yet we have 15 players in our team who were ALL key players in their teams.
That means that players like Dembele, Malcom, Alexis, Arthur have to adapt from being an absolute key players of their teams=into being one of 10 or 15 "normal" players at Barca.
And again, only some players are able to make that step and adapt to this new level where they aren't key players anymore.
3. no3, for foreign players=they are coming to a new country, new culture, play against new opponents with different formations, tactics and styles
4. further, another thing, for example, Couitnho=he wasn't awesome at Liverpool from the day 1. He needed 2-3 seasons to adapt, to learn their system, to adapt to EPL opponents, to find his place and automatism in Liverpool's team.
And now, when he comes to Barca, fans and media are expecting for him to click after 6 Months.
But, he needed 2-3 years at Liverpool. Yet here, we need results and adaptation RIGHT NOW, RIGHT AWAY.
Griezmman didn't click with AM from the day 1. He needed some time to fit into their system.
Yet here, he is dead for us (for me too) after 2 Months.
Well, this is Barca in a nutshell.

So, I am not talking about Messi at all.
We had this problem since always.
Of course, in a current era, it is even bigger. But the problem was also here in 90s and 00s.

I have wrote in previous posts, that in some cases we even had players who played well under 1 manager in smaller clubs and sucked under the same manager at Barca.
For example, Jari Litmanen and Ronald De Boer.
Van Gaal was a coach for 6 years at Ajax and even won a CL with their young team, with Barca's DNA football in 1995.
Then Van Gaal came to Barca in 1997 and bought a lot of players from his Ajax team.
And now, people would think:
1. those players were world class at Ajax and they won a CL
2. they will be coached by Van Gaal, the same coach, so they will easily translate their form from Ajax into Barca
3. plus, Barca and Ajax play a similar style, so there shouldn't be any problems

Jari Litmanen at Ajax was the best Finnish player in a history.
And in that season, he was probably a top3 player in the world.
He played as a CAM-false 9-CF.
Here are 2 videos of Litmanen and Ajax from 1995:
Ajax won a CL, and in that season they won against AC Milan twice in a group stage and AGAIN in the final.
And AC Milan were reigning champions who won against Barca with 4:0 in 1994'.
And this Ajax's team won 3 times against them in 1995.

Some of highlights from that season:

Litmanen was banging goals like crazy, creating, assisting, dribbling.
And he was not a one season wonder. He was doing this at Ajax for several years under Van Gaal.
So, it was right to expect insane performances from him at Barca under Van Gaal (Van Gaal bought Litmanen, Kluivert, Frank De Boer, Ronald De Boer from Ajax plus other Dutch players: GK Hesp, defender Bogarde, midfielder Cocu, winger Zenden).
On paper, it seemed that Van Gaal will easily replicate a success from Ajax.
But what happened? We were eliminated 2 times in his 3 years in GROUP STAGE of a CL.
With defeats 0:4 and 0:3 to teams like Dynamo Kiev.
How? Hard to explain...

Regarding Litmanen, Ronald De Boer and lots of Dutch players, they were total fails here.
Why?
Again, it is hard to explain. But the pattern is repeating all the time.

Regarding Litmanen, this is what Van Gaal said:


So, for example: Litmanen was one of the best players in the world at Ajax.
He was a key player, a leader, a superstar in that club.
When he came to Barca, he was just "one of the guys".
And also: at Ajax=if you win titles=fine.
If not=oh, well.

While at Barca=people expected wonders and leadership from him in every match, right here right now.
He wasn't able to adapt fast and then fans and media started to pressure him and he lost all confidence.
And yet again, he played under the same coach, Van Gaal at Ajax and Van Gaal at Barca.

There are lots of similar stories during our past, which are the textbook examples of=Barca is another world or another planet.
A totally different rules and expectations apply here.
You need to be perfect in terms of footballing skills, fit body and not injury prone and extremely mentally strong (and most often: you need to play out of your classical position).

Good post. I agree with most of it. You did a good job explaining why top players fail at different clubs. And yes, it's very hard to transfer players form the same tier.

But don't you think that, considering what you write in this post, it's even more important to make sure that the talents in La Masia get every chance to show us if they have what it takes to make the step to the senior team or not?

 

[Potroh]

Good post. I agree with most of it. You did a good job explaining why top players fail at different clubs. And yes, it's very hard to transfer players form the same tier.

But don't you think that, considering what you write in this post, it's even more important to make sure that the talents in La Masia get every chance to show us if they have what it takes to make the step to the senior team or not?

Good explanation?
So both you and BBZ come up with the ancient myth of different expectations at different clubs. Expectations can be slightly different naturally. But is it NOT like writing novels in a different language or playing music on different instruments.

You consider Barca being an "elite commando", which it is definitely not.
Players should approach this privileged place with wet-eyes all the time? Sitting on the bench and counting the years remaining, with the hope that the good-king will provide alms on his own birthday?

This is OUR KINDOM - you sate. A kingdom different from any other, obviously stronger, wiser, and we are the BEST, even if when it is quite transparent that the small and more flexible kingdoms are far ahead of us?

Footballers coming from the dismal? How about classes like Maradona, Ronaldo9 or Cafu and all the other south-Americans then?
How about C. Ronaldo whom we put in ANY team whatsoever with some players to serve him will start scoring dozens?

Every fecking club is different on the planet, because they have different players and different coaches. Playing with different other players is always different, takes a bit of time to understand the others, but why do you need an artificial ranking-system for that?

A good classical musician, playing sheet-music in an orchestra, can play in ANY orchestra well, his or her acclimatization time is minimal to none.

Picasso would have never ever painted realistic pictures, Da Vinci would have never ever painted non-figurative stuff. All you can do is to state that certain styles do not match to artists thinking around a diametrically opposite stylistic system or approach.
But you simply don't need to buy the services of those, as simple as that.

La Masia? Just another hard and solid myth created around the club.
From many angles it's nothing else but a matter of money having been spent, any club can do it with a solid financial background but they don't, because they a have different preferences.

The giving MORE chances for "OUR OWN CHILDREN", to "our own species", to "our own kind", to our "own offspring", to "our blood", etc. is simply ridiculous in the 21st century. Favoring your own kids is natural if you are a parent.
But the very same parent may work and make unbiased decisions elsewhere and everyone expects him to make decisions independent of his own heritage.

It is simply bad DISCRIMINATION, with a slight hint of racism to always prefer your own kind and blood.

 

[kistedu]

@sergei
Good post but one mistake:
And also: at Ajax=if you win titles=fine.
If not=oh, well.


This is absolutely not true!!!
At Ajax you also must win titels, and with good play too, don't make mistake about it.

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=21136]Potroh[/MENTION], at Barcelona the pressure is higher and the patience is very low due to the expectations that you win big title in each year. Barca/Madrid are very tough conditions to succeed at. At most other big clubs players get credit more easily than at Barcelona/Madrid, and scrutiny is not as tough to deal with.

I agree with BBZ in this area. That Barca is a step up for many players in a lot of areas of their career and not all make that step successfully. It's about mentality in the end.

La Masia players will always have an edge in front of outer talent, because they've been raised within the club and know what to expect, and the type of football they have to produce. So, super-talented players from La Masia will have more chances to make it at Barcelona than outer talents.