Luka Jović

[El Gato]

Scoring another 1-2 goals wouldn't have made him a success but it would've made it harder to bench him, thus leading to more minutes.

Ya, not necessarily. The assumption he'll make a reasonable choice doesn't stand up like it used to, and even then it wasn't 100% consistent. 4 years ago Morata scored more than Benzema and still got told at the end of season he has no chance at becoming more important. There is no indication Zidane cares about return nearly as much as the spectators. Even players who don't show tangible return are now becoming frozen out (Militao, possibly even Fede). There is far more evidence to suggest he has a very rigid idea of what he wants from a given player and freezes out anyone who he knows won't grant it in the time given and will not learn it in the short-term. In other words - Fede won't necessarily do Modrić's rapid transition from avoiding press to progressing the ball. Odriozola won't be as disciplined in position like Vazquez might and he won't fight back as consistently, and that's despite the liability Vazquez is at RB. Odegaard, although it's not 100% clear who he's most likely to compete against of the current 11, will not be the kind of player in transition from RW that Asensio will, will not regularly cut inside, will make different choices with the ball, ones his teammates will not know unless they play longer with him.

Which is odd because this ultimately leads to terrible conservatism from Zidane - he will not be happy until he receives similar product to that from some years ago and he's showing lack of willingness to design something different. Which comes from nothing but nepotism and attachment to the players he feels he owes loyalty to. Or it's a result of inability to coach players. Take a pick.

 

[BarcaOG]

No it isn't poor. Flat appearances is a shit measure, look per minutes played.
He has more shots and more key passes per 90 minutes of play than Benzema. Most shots per 90 minutes in the team. Highest xG90 in the team. Highest NPxG90 (non-penalty) in the team.

You still haven't said what 'Real Madrid-calibre player' means to you. What does Jović have to do in the time given that you would consider a reasonable measure of success?

i know youre not a fan of benzema but LOL, wolfe, this is exactly why statistics are so misleading. by your measure he is somehow comparable/better than benzema who...crazy, i know...as a forward actually scores goals? nobody cares about expected goals. what counts is actual goals scored. messi has had some very good shots and chances this season and im sure his expected goals stat is great, but that doesnt somehow redeem him of his poor form.

a real madrid calibre player is someone who takes his minutes and makes them count. puts away the actual chances he gets not hiding behind 'expected goals' (seriously, what a stupid idea. what's next, expected titles? newsflash: what matters is assists and goals scored, not some probabilistic calculation about what could have been. thats seriously laughable.

riddle me this, then. if jovic is as good as you say he is why is he back at frankfurt? shouldnt a lot more people have seen what you apparently see in him? or maybe theres a much simpler explanation: he didnt cut it and hes back where he belongs. that makes much more sense. you dont have to rely on some complex theory about zidane and whacky non-sensical statistics about goals and assists that could-have-been but were not (the statistic that actually matters).

that sort of thing is as absurd as being gung-ho about possession for the sake of possession. you dont win games or advance your career as a footballer with expected goals. jesus

 

[Morten]

i know youre not a fan of benzema but LOL, wolfe, this is exactly why statistics are so misleading. by your measure he is somehow comparable/better than benzema who...crazy, i know...as a forward actually scores goals? nobody cares about expected goals. what counts is actual goals scored. messi has had some very good shots and chances this season and im sure his expected goals stat is great, but that doesnt somehow redeem him of his poor form.

a real madrid calibre player is someone who takes his minutes and makes them count. puts away the actual chances he gets not hiding behind 'expected goals' (seriously, what a stupid idea. what's next, expected titles? newsflash: what matters is assists and goals scored, not some probabilistic calculation about what could have been. thats seriously laughable.

riddle me this, then. if jovic is as good as you say he is why is he back at frankfurt? shouldnt a lot more people have seen what you apparently see in him? or maybe theres a much simpler explanation: he didnt cut it and hes back where he belongs. that makes much more sense. you dont have to rely on some complex theory about zidane and whacky non-sensical statistics about goals and assists that could-have-been but were not (the statistic that actually matters).

that sort of thing is as absurd as being gung-ho about possession for the sake of possession. you dont win games or advance your career as a footballer with expected goals. jesus

Thank you, finally someone else who doesnt jerk off to the xG stat.

An easy example, one would think Lewandowski was terrible by looking at it, and not the best striker in the world, which he is.

As for Benzema, the problem is that we will never upgrade as long as he is in the club, because no striker will get any game time with Benzema around.

 

[BarcaOG]

Thank you, finally someone else who doesnt jerk off to the xG stat.

An easy example, one would think Lewandowski was terrible by looking at it, and not the best striker in the world, which he is.

As for Benzema, the problem is that we will never upgrade as long as he is in the club, because no striker will get any game time with Benzema around.

exactly. the lewandowski example should put that silly XG nonsense to bed definitively.

 

[El Gato]

I'm not even going to respond to your blatant lack of trying to understand what xG is and what was implied by them in this conversation. Andresito understood it. You two did not. Sorry lads.
PS bullshit about Lewandowski looking poor on xG

Cristiano Ronaldo scores goals. Woop de doo. Build on that eh?

riddle me this, then. if jovic is as good as you say he is why is he back at frankfurt? shouldnt a lot more people have seen what you apparently see in him?

They do. And 95% of the Madrid fans who don't resort to this tragic relativism and call Benzema the best thing since sliced bread wish he regains confidence, returns and is used. Why do they think that? Because they WANT a younger player to grow and replace the old fart. And his manager is being a cunt and refuses to give him time to mesh. Don't think it's rocket science.

 

[Morten]

I'm not even going to respond to your blatant lack of trying to understand what xG is and what was implied by them in this conversation. Andresito understood it. You two did not. Sorry lads.
PS bullshit about Lewandowski looking poor on xG

Cristiano Ronaldo scores goals. Woop de doo. Build on that eh?



They do. And 95% of the Madrid fans who don't resort to this tragic relativism and call Benzema the best thing since sliced bread wish he regains confidence, returns and is used. Why do they think that? Because they WANT a younger player to grow and replace the old fart. And his manager is being a cunt and refuses to give him time to mesh. Don't think it's rocket science.

He actually does, 50-60 goal man underperforms apparently, according to xG.

Too bad for xG that nobody in the real world actually believes that, for good reason.

 

[El Gato]

He actually does, 50-60 goal man underperforms apparently, according to xG.

Too bad for xG that nobody in the real world actually believes that, for good reason.

No he doesn't. Only 1 season in past 5 he underperformed in terms of goals - 18/19. Where are you getting the stats?

And anyway, how is underperforming on xG a sign xG doesn't represent his value lmao. You can easily outperform xG by scoring from harder positions - and you'll get credit for it.

 

[CatalinR10]

27 games - 2 goals last season

200 mins this season - 0 goals


RM paid 63 mil for this guy


Anyone making excuses for him at this point just looks like an idiot smh

 

[Morten]

No he doesn't. Only 1 season in past 5 he underperformed in terms of goals - 18/19. Where are you getting the stats?

And anyway, how is underperforming on xG a sign xG doesn't represent his value lmao. You can easily outperform xG by scoring from harder positions - and you'll get credit for it.

I cant find it right now, but there is supposed to be a graph of xG from 16-20.
Somebody else have it?

 

[El Gato]

27 games - 2 goals last season

200 mins this season - 0 goals


RM paid 63 mil for this guy


Anyone making excuses for him at this point just looks like an idiot smh

That's 2 games Catalinutz. Messi 2-game goal droughts must be a proper nightmare for you by that standard my man. Tho I know you just do it to juxtapose a big number next to a small goal number. Simple stats for simple minds lol

@Morten
Irrespective of whatever it is you're conjuring up, you're just showing you don't understand what xG is about mate. Even if anyone underperforms on xG or xA it doesn't mean a player sucks.

BTW didn't even focus on the expected ones. Up there in shots and key passes per minutes of play. In either season. How does that add up with the rhetoric he's that shit player eh?

 

[CatalinR10]

That's 2 games Catalinutz. Messi 2-game goal droughts must be a proper nightmare for you by that standard my man. Tho I know you just do it to juxtapose a big number next to a small goal number. Simple stats for simple minds lol

we're in january and he only got to play 2 games so far. Last season he had 2 goals in 27 games.


pathetic transfer.

 

[El Gato]

we're in january and he only got to play 2 games so far. Last season he had 2 goals in 27 games.


pathetic transfer.

Do it by minutes. Have a try. It will blow your mind.

hint - divide 806 by 90

 

[Morten]

Do it by minutes. Have a try. It will blow your mind.

hint - divide 806 by 90

Speaking of minutes, i believe Benzema just went 3 games in a row without a shot on target.
I`ll come back to the xG graph when i can find it, btw.

 

[El Gato]

Colour me surprised

 

[CatalinR10]

Do it by minutes. Have a try. It will blow your mind.

hint - divide 806 by 90

who the fuck even cares ?


he's so shit that even when playing in 27 games he can barelly score 2 goals fucking lmao



defending him makes you look only pathetic while you're trashing Bezema , which looks like you're kind of fond of it in the last period



this guy is a huge wasted transfer , actually hilarious