Ter Stature
Active member
I can't name one manure player that isn't overrated.
Bruno is their only top player
Bruno is their only top player
Manchester United
- Thread starter Jenks
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Maradona37
Well-known member
Maradona37
Well-known member
Well, pretty average start for them. But it is just the start. Let's see how they get on in the coming games.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Been saying Hojlund will never be anywhere near good enough since he signed.
He's still young, but time doesn't cure a severe lack of ability. Looking like a win for me.
He's still young, but time doesn't cure a severe lack of ability. Looking like a win for me.
Ter Stature
Active member
Most goals and assists as midfielder. Creates all their chances.
Manure fans seem to hate him, but remove that guy from the team and they can't do anything. None of their other players have a brain.
Maradona37
Well-known member
That has been discussed loads on Redcafe and I was saying it before they cottoned on.
He gets most of their goals and assists (mostly because of penalties in the former instance) but that's because the way he play forces them to play this dogmeat transition style of football.
He has severe weaknesses in his game - poor in tight spaces, can't dribble, cannot set the tempo of the game as a number 10, poor on the half-turn, poor short passer. Look at Maddison - doesn't do as well in 'stats' but clearly a more gifted footballer than fernandes. Fernandes is never scoring that second Maddison goal the other day with the touch in small space in the box and little dink all in one movement.
He gets better stats than Iniesta and David Silva, but who makes the team better through playmaking and intelligent play throughout a game?
he's not really a midfielder either. As I say he doesn't control the tempo of the game.
I don't really care about stats, to be honest. The fact is catering to him and his need to be the 'chance creator' (which are almost all long passes on the transition) clearly hasn't made them a better team. Their other players are clueless and rubbish too, but it's amusing you accuse them of not having a brain but act like he has high football IQ - how often does he give the ball away with a hail mary and the opposition suddenly have the ball in acres of space in the United half? I have seen him do the most braindead of things quite often, so he's clearly not an intelligent footballer.
He's a chaos merchant who is culpable for their frantic style of football (along with Rashford), and they'll never get close to winning one of the two big trophies with him. Catering to himand building their team around him is exactly what they should NOT do. What they should do is get rid of him and build a more cohesive team.
I agree most of their others players are hopeless though. But we will have to disagree on Fernandes. I think you're placing way too much value on stats and not enough on how they actually play with him in the team.
You say remove him and they can't do anything. It isn't like they're good with him, either. He's also wank in every tournament for his national team.
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Maradona37
Well-known member
as for 'most chances created' - look at the other guys on that list in Europe. hardly world-class players.
Maybe, just maybe, it makes a lot more sense to have a cohesive team creating chances from everywhere, than have one idiot spamming Hollywoods all game and referring to his FPL points.
Odegaard doesn't create as many chances, but is clearly a significantly better footballer than Bruno. As are the guys mentioned in my previous post.
You said he's a top player - he clearly isn't, which is why he's playing for a mediocre Man United team who have done nothing while he's been there, why he flops in most big games, and why no elite teams wanted him when he left Sporting. Would he get anywhere near Man City (prior to this horrible run), Bayern, Arsenal, Liverpool, RM or Barca teams? No chance. He'd be a fringe player at the very best for those sides.
Maybe, just maybe, it makes a lot more sense to have a cohesive team creating chances from everywhere, than have one idiot spamming Hollywoods all game and referring to his FPL points.
Odegaard doesn't create as many chances, but is clearly a significantly better footballer than Bruno. As are the guys mentioned in my previous post.
You said he's a top player - he clearly isn't, which is why he's playing for a mediocre Man United team who have done nothing while he's been there, why he flops in most big games, and why no elite teams wanted him when he left Sporting. Would he get anywhere near Man City (prior to this horrible run), Bayern, Arsenal, Liverpool, RM or Barca teams? No chance. He'd be a fringe player at the very best for those sides.
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Maradona37
Well-known member
Individual stats are one of the most overrated things in football, by the way. Look at Ronaldo at Juventus and Man United second spell, or Haaland at City. The latter were probably a better TEAM when Aguero led the line or they played with a false 9. Now obviously there are other factors at play too, but still.
All that matters is how many goals the team score, how many games they win, and how many points they accrue - not an individual, and they have a really poor total goals with him as part of their team. Now you can say their forwards miss the chances he creates but I think that tells half the story - half these 'chances created' are fabricated. He apparently created 15 chances against Sheffield United and Bournemouth at home last season (latter of which they lost 3-0). I watched both those games and that is utter bollocks.
Fact is chances created can be something as simple as spreading it out wide to Rashford or Garnacho 40 yards from goal, they run for a bit and take on or two players then shoot on goal. It's hardly carving teams apart most of the time. Stats can be very misleading, especially G/A stats.
You'd rather have three guys score ten goals each than one guy score twenty. Equally, you'd rather have three guys create 15 chances each than one create 30. Too many modern fans obsess over individual stats and forget that all that matters is the team and how well it does, not one player.
Anyway, I seem to agree with you on some other football matters, so feel free to disregard my essays and we can agree to disagree on this one. Cannot be bothered with a long debate at this time of night, or any time. I really do not care about enough Bruno Fernandes to waste my valuable free time on him as much as I have in the last hour.
All that matters is how many goals the team score, how many games they win, and how many points they accrue - not an individual, and they have a really poor total goals with him as part of their team. Now you can say their forwards miss the chances he creates but I think that tells half the story - half these 'chances created' are fabricated. He apparently created 15 chances against Sheffield United and Bournemouth at home last season (latter of which they lost 3-0). I watched both those games and that is utter bollocks.
Fact is chances created can be something as simple as spreading it out wide to Rashford or Garnacho 40 yards from goal, they run for a bit and take on or two players then shoot on goal. It's hardly carving teams apart most of the time. Stats can be very misleading, especially G/A stats.
You'd rather have three guys score ten goals each than one guy score twenty. Equally, you'd rather have three guys create 15 chances each than one create 30. Too many modern fans obsess over individual stats and forget that all that matters is the team and how well it does, not one player.
Anyway, I seem to agree with you on some other football matters, so feel free to disregard my essays and we can agree to disagree on this one. Cannot be bothered with a long debate at this time of night, or any time. I really do not care about enough Bruno Fernandes to waste my valuable free time on him as much as I have in the last hour.
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Ter Stature
Active member
"Premier" League "defending". Or is that Amorim guy a genius using these bums to become world class finishers? 4 goal from 0.73 xg? We had over 2 yesterday.
Didn't watch it ^^
And I also don't care about him, but he seems to be doing something right getting two assists again, it's true that giving the ball away is a big weakness in a team like that though, we also suffer from that, with Gavi or others doing nonsense.
Didn't watch it ^^
And I also don't care about him, but he seems to be doing something right getting two assists again, it's true that giving the ball away is a big weakness in a team like that though, we also suffer from that, with Gavi or others doing nonsense.
Temptation
Well-known member
Maradona37
Well-known member
Fair enough. I think their chances against Everton were fairly clear cut - xG is a flawed stat and I definitely think they should have had an xG of 2 or more - two of their goals were basically tap ins. But Everton were the better team before the first goal.
Like I say don't wanna spend time arguing about Fernandes, he's great with the stats (against weak opponents at least) but his big problems lie in general play outside of moments. He was poor again away at Arsenal. I am amazed that Amorim is playing him as one of the CM right now, as he cannot play that role, but his flaws limit him as an AM too (inability to dribble, problems in tight spaces and turning and so on).
He is a good player to a point, but I feel the way he plays limits them as a team too. I just don't really rate him as highly as he is touted, and for me he's one of the posterboys for stats disguising mediocre performances (alongside the likes of Haaland, Rashford, Bellingham and post 30 years old Cristiano Ronaldo).
I respect your opinion on him though and in general.
Messi983
Senior Member
Think this was mainly because Mainoo was suspended against Arsenal.
Ugarte-Mainoo will be Amorim's first choice DM/CM pair when available imo. They don't have depth behind them though as I don't see Amorim counting on Casemiro and Eriksen beyond this season. Wouldn't even surprise me if they will try to ship Case to Saudis in January and bring another midfielder. They also have this Collyer kid who they've signed from Brighton (so he must be good!) few years ago but he has played only one half of PL football so far in his career (interestingly against Liverpool). Don't know his level but should probably be loaned to a Championship/League 1 team to earn some experience.
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