Matthijs de Ligt

[Bulgroz]

You haven't crushed anything. I already stated there are limitations to those data and what they are, but they are the best data we have got. Fyi uefa rankings are divided by the teams playing in europe. More teams in, lower ranking teams from your league making cl/el are equally weighted as your top. Can't really get much more equitable. The fact uefa rankings and transfer market are relatively well aligned also supports the case. Here is the case again, Epl/la liga are a tier, followed by bundesliga and serie a, followed by ligue 1 in a tier, than a group of other leagues (europe/so america). Of course you can try to nit pick but the story from the (converging data from indepedent sources, entirely based on clubs performance from those leagues) and most observers see it for the trends they are.

Oh, and if you don't believe the data, how about 9-0 scoreline in a santioned league match as a very startling indicator of inequity in the quality of clubs in it. Now i am not a fan of overgeneralizing from a single case/event, but if ut is the kind of argument you like, feel free to use it.

Datas you're providing with Ueda rankings are based on teams... playing European competitions. It's not an indication on the general level of the league. And once again, go check the leagues ratings over the past 4 years. Ligue 1 outperformed Bundesliga and Série A at least once over the past 3 years. Was even on par with EPL three years ago. Feel free to completely ignore that if that's your thing.

As for the 9-0,you do realize we're talking about the worst team in the league? But more importantly, you do realize they also defeated PSG a week ago? What was your analysis back then exactly, and how does that fit in your whole argumentation?

 

[Arizona Scott]

Ok lets simplify this (id much prefer to talk epl or la liga but fine).
The 4th place serie a team has to play cl and the 7th place one has to play el. For ligue one the 4th place one gets to play in the easier el and the 7th place one doesny play in europe at all. All qualifying teams are part of the denominator. So serie a has lower ranked teams that get in the calculation, so if ligue 1 was on par through the top 3rd of the league or so it is stilted for ligue 1 to move up in points. (Now i know there are bonus to cl group advancement but that is very hard in general and super difficult for non elite clubs, typically it will be easier to acquire points in the el).

Next 5 year rankings are going to be much better indicators than cherry picking one good year one bad year for league, that is why they use the moving 5 year rank and not yearly performance in awarding places to leagues.

Finally, and i dont know this myself, when was the last time a serie a match ended 11 v 11 with a 9-0 scoreline?

 

[Jair Ventura]

Ok lets simplify this (id much prefer to talk epl or la liga but fine).
The 4th place serie a team has to play cl and the 7th place one has to play el. For ligue one the 4th place one gets to play in the easier el and the 7th place one doesny play in europe at all. All qualifying teams are part of the denominator. So serie a has lower ranked teams that get in the calculation, so if ligue 1 was on par through the top 3rd of the league or so it is stilted for ligue 1 to move up in points. (Now i know there are bonus to cl group advancement but that is very hard in general and super difficult for non elite clubs, typically it will be easier to acquire points in the el).

Next 5 year rankings are going to be much better indicators than cherry picking one good year one bad year for league, that is why they use the moving 5 year rank and not yearly performance in awarding places to leagues.

Finally, and i dont know this myself, when was the last time a serie a match ended 11 v 11 with a 9-0 scoreline?

What part of: "UEFA rankings aren't an indication on the general level of the league." are you struggling with?

 

[Newcomer]

Ok lets simplify this (id much prefer to talk epl or la liga but fine).
The 4th place serie a team has to play cl and the 7th place one has to play el. For ligue one the 4th place one gets to play in the easier el and the 7th place one doesny play in europe at all. All qualifying teams are part of the denominator. So serie a has lower ranked teams that get in the calculation, so if ligue 1 was on par through the top 3rd of the league or so it is stilted for ligue 1 to move up in points. (Now i know there are bonus to cl group advancement but that is very hard in general and super difficult for non elite clubs, typically it will be easier to acquire points in the el).

Next 5 year rankings are going to be much better indicators than cherry picking one good year one bad year for league, that is why they use the moving 5 year rank and not yearly performance in awarding places to leagues.

Finally, and i dont know this myself, when was the last time a serie a match ended 11 v 11 with a 9-0 scoreline?

I know it has been fun and giggles for all the comments (used and overused) of farmer league because of that 9-0 scoreline, but take into account that it is actually the club record. That means what it means, it doesn't happen usually and why we enjoyed it so much.
Two reasons for that result:
-PSG actually tried very hard this game to keep on playing, pushing, pressing. Got to be a message for a team that had eliminated us in our stadium from a domestic Cup.
-Guingamp was poorer than they usually are (they are last in the league for a reason and it is not like Monaco that had 15-16 major players all injured at the same time) and they even rested some of their best players. They came with the idea they would get spanked and they did. Maybe that mental aspect affected their game too.

Then you have to take into account that PSG was unusually efficient with 9 goals out of 12 goals on target.

And it is not like Real Madrid didn't beat Granada 9-1, Rayo Vallecano 10-2, Barça beat Huesca 8-2, MU beat Arsenal 8-2, City beat Stoke 7-2, Barça beat Valencia 7-0, Barça beat deportivo 8-0 and so on and so on.

Here, i'm not saying this PSG side is better than those Barca or Real sides, just pointing out this kind of scoreline will be praised if one likes the team and the league or will be used to mock another team or league we don't like.

I got to see some beautiful goals and combinations, thanks to the poor display from Guingamp granted, and as a fan it was very cool to see all those goals and the team still trying to go on.
Will be better to train for MU games than to play lazy anyway.

 

[Arizona Scott]

What part of: "UEFA rankings aren't an indication on the general level of the league." are you struggling with?

I am not struggling with uefa ranking, i explained how it is calculated and why it is important to use the 5 year ranking
Aside from uefa ranking and market value collections for players (by average, by the top teams, by medians of lower tiered clubs, etc), what other composite metrics would you use to reflect elements (not the whole picture) of league strength?

 

[Jair Ventura]

I am not struggling with uefa ranking, i explained how it is calculated and why it is important to use the 5 year ranking
Aside from uefa ranking and market value collections for players (by average, by the top teams, by medians of lower tiered clubs, etc), what other composite metrics would you use to reflect elements (not the whole picture) of league strength?

- If you aren't struggling with that concept, why do you keep falling back on UEFA rankings after the flaw in your argumentation was pointed out? Multiple times, no less.

- There aren't any metrics that capture the general level of a league. That's why it's important to actually watch and follow so you aren't speaking out of ignorance.

 

[Arizona Scott]

I know it has been fun and giggles for all the comments (used and overused) of farmer league because of that 9-0 scoreline, but take into account that it is actually the club record. That means what it means, it doesn't happen usually and why we enjoyed it so much.
Two reasons for that result:
-PSG actually tried very hard this game to keep on playing, pushing, pressing. Got to be a message for a team that had eliminated us in our stadium from a domestic Cup.
-Guingamp was poorer than they usually are (they are last in the league for a reason and it is not like Monaco that had 15-16 major players all injured at the same time) and they even rested some of their best players. They came with the idea they would get spanked and they did. Maybe that mental aspect affected their game too.

Then you have to take into account that PSG was unusually efficient with 9 goals out of 12 goals on target.

And it is not like Real Madrid didn't beat Granada 9-1, Rayo Vallecano 10-2, Barça beat Huesca 8-2, MU beat Arsenal 8-2, City beat Stoke 7-2, Barça beat Valencia 7-0, Barça beat deportivo 8-0 and so on and so on.

Here, i'm not saying this PSG side is better than those Barca or Real sides, just pointing out this kind of scoreline will be praised if one likes the team and the league or will be used to mock another team or league we don't like.

I got to see some beautiful goals and combinations, thanks to the poor display from Guingamp granted, and as a fan it was very cool to see all those goals and the team still trying to go on.
Will be better to train for MU games than to play lazy anyway.

Fair points and happy to read about the context of the match.

For reference i dont think 1 match should be generalized, but a couple posters were stubborn in their ignorance about making inferences from la lot of data points (i hope they are not a dr. Or financial plannet) so i thought i would share this case point of view..

I am curious is a serie a match has been decided recently by a 9-0 score, since the posters have since conceded epl and la liga are significantly better than ligue 1.

Also city recently won 9-0, but it was either a championship or lower side opponent. Does happen if the talent disparity is so great, one team is on, and another is off, like your examples.

 

[Arizona Scott]

- If you aren't struggling with that concept, why do you keep falling back on UEFA rankings after the flaw in your argumentation was pointed out? Multiple times, no less.

- There aren't any metrics that capture the general level of a league. That's why it's important to actually watch and follow so you aren't speaking out of ignorance.

I am glad you are not my dr or financial planner or planning climate change talks, because yes i want persons using all available data, imperfect as they are.

Are you seriously going to try to argue ligue 1 overall has better overall quality of football than the current top 4 five year ranked in europe. I see you nit picking limitations in metrics--ones i am fully aware of and why you look at them with others. I really don't know what your argument is. Is it ligue 1 is better from 1-20/1-18 than serie a and bundesliga?

 

[Bulgroz]

Mate, you're trying to argue that the opposite of "serie A and Bundesliga are a tier above Ligue 1" is "ligue 1 is better than Bundesliga and Serie A". You're completely forgetting that it can simply be "Bundesliga and Serie A are NOT a tier above Ligue 1". They're very different leagues, emphasizing on different aspects, but the difference in terms of level is rather marginal. None of the points you're making is going against that. Which is why nitpicking is so easy. As I mentioned in another post, next year uefa rankings will erase a very good year for serie A and a very shitty year for Ligue 1. Depending on how well French teams will perform this season, the gap between those two leagues might end up being rather small. Way smaller than the gap between La Liga and EPL, or between EPL and Bundesliga. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Arizona Scott]

Mate, you're trying to argue that the opposite of "serie A and Bundesliga are a tier above Ligue 1" is "ligue 1 is better than Bundesliga and Serie A". You're completely forgetting that it can simply be "Bundesliga and Serie A are NOT a tier above Ligue 1". They're very different leagues, emphasizing on different aspects, but the difference in terms of level is rather marginal. None of the points you're making is going against that. Which is why nitpicking is so easy. As I mentioned in another post, next year uefa rankings will erase a very good year for serie A and a very shitty year for Ligue 1. Depending on how well French teams will perform this season, the gap between those two leagues might end up being rather small. Way smaller than the gap between La Liga and EPL, or between EPL and Bundesliga. That's all I'm saying.

My argument is two group top (with EPL and La Liga best with each league having their strengths between them), 2 group next tier (Bundesliga and Serie a), one group next tier (ligue 1) and then another tier (mostly like Europes 6-11 leagues + south american top). I think Serie A is a notch above Ligue 1 from 1-20 (better in their top 5 or so, better in the middle, better in the drop zone), if you don't, that is fine. At least we know where I think where we disagree.

 

[VN10]

Stop pretending that LaLiga is of the same level as the Premier League. That's laughable.
We are talking about the general strength of competition, not about the top teams in a competition.

1. Premier League

2/3. La Liga and Bundesliga

4/5. Serie A and Ligue 1

 

[kollegah]

.

Turn Back: when this muppet disappeared for weeks after PSG Fail in the champions league.
Outlook: this muppet will disappear for weeks after PSG fails in the CL

 

[Judoman]

Stop pretending that LaLiga is of the same level as the Premier League. That's laughable.
We are talking about the general strength of competition, not about the top teams in a competition.

1. Premier League

2/3. La Liga and Bundesliga

4/5. Serie A and Ligue 1

What makes you think that West Ham is better than Levante?
Also, check CL and EL trophies winners in the last 10-15 years. Are PL clubs even on 2nd place?

 

[Alik]

Stop pretending that LaLiga is of the same level as the Premier League. That's laughable.
We are talking about the general strength of competition, not about the top teams in a competition.

1. Premier League

2/3. La Liga and Bundesliga

4/5. Serie A and Ligue 1

Your whole post history is laughable.

 

[Cule4life]

Stop pretending that LaLiga is of the same level as the Premier League. That's laughable.
We are talking about the general strength of competition, not about the top teams in a competition.

1. Premier League

2/3. La Liga and Bundesliga

4/5. Serie A and Ligue 1

Kids look it's a premface outside his natural habitat.