Messi vs CR7 in CL

[Joan]

Last time a team was focused on setting up Messi, he scored 91 goals and the very next year was scoring in a better rate to beat the record only for injuries to change all the tactical plans.

Can't really set him up when you have Suarez in your team. Would love to see it, though.

 

[Cruyff-Total Football]

Can't really set him up when you have Suarez in your team. Would love to see it, though.

True. That's where Benzema is crucial. Benzema is only a striker on paper. Even though he's a poor goalscorer, his tactical role is different. His most important role is not goalscoring. The RM team has been set up in a completely different way.

 

[DonAK]

Messi didnt score in QF 5 years... wow



Edit: messi doesnt move enough on the pitch, so its easier to mark him then ronaldo who is constantly on the move , we can read how messi is "saving" himself so that is the reason he walks sometimes, i think that is not the case, he just dont like running so much

Bingo. Especially in 2014, 2016 and 2017. He need to be more proactive and move more, not only to get into better positions himself to receive the ball, but also open up space for other players.

That said, this season he's been a lot more active and moving a lot more and even running back to defend from time to time. Last night he was simply not fit enough and tried complicated moves rather than playing it simple.

 

[Cruyff-Total Football]

Bingo. Especially in 2014, 2016 and 2017. He need to be more proactive and move more, not only to get into better positions himself to receive the ball, but also open up space for other players.

That said, this season he's been a lot more active and moving a lot more and even running back to defend from time to time. Last night he was simply not fit enough and tried complicated moves rather than playing it simple.

The both teams are playing in a completely different way. He moves in the same way he moved when he scored 91 goals.

"It's not about running a lot. It's about being in the right place at the right time. Neither earlier nor late.'
- Cruijff

His goal against Chelsea in the first leg and his last minute winner against RM were the examples of his perfect movement. As I said earlier, Messi, Muller, Puskas, Cristiano are all excellent in movements. The difference is the amount of clear cut chances each get.

 

[DonAK]

The both teams are playing in a completely different way. He moves in the same way he moved when he scored 91 goals.

"It's not about running a lot. It's about being in the right place at the right time. Neither earlier nor late.'
- Cruijff

His goal against Chelsea in the first leg and his last minute winner against RM were the examples of his perfect movement. As I said earlier, Messi, Muller, Puskas, Cristiano are all excellent in movements. The difference is the amount of clear cut chances each get.

Yes, and in 2014, 2016 and 2017 he's rarely been in the right place at the right time because he's been standing still and not moving at all.

I'm not saying he should move like Ronaldo. Only that he should make himself more available and open up passing lanes. You won't get the ball and do anything if you have two players around you and you're just standing there. It also makes the center of the pitch congested pushing the team to the flanks where the opponent want us to go and are well prepared.

I don't want him to be constantly running. I want him to be moving at the right time to be at the right place.

 

[Cruyff-Total Football]

Yes, and in 2014, 2016 and 2017 he's rarely been in the right place at the right time because he's been standing still and not moving at all.

The examples I provided are in the 2017 and 2018. And it's impossible to be at the right place at the right time when you're the one that initiates the key pass. In rare occasions, when Iniesta and Alba provides him with good cross, he's in the right place at the right time.

Tell me one player in our team that are capable of consistently creating chances for him, like Kroos, Isco, Marcelo, Modric does other than the old Iniesta who plays for 60 minutes. Messi is the one who create all the chances that's not coming from Iniesta.

There's a reason why Zidane benched Isco only for Kovacic man marking Messi.

 

[Joan]

Yes, and in 2014, 2016 and 2017 he's rarely been in the right place at the right time because he's been standing still and not moving at all.

I'm not saying he should move like Ronaldo. Only that he should make himself more available and open up passing lanes. You won't get the ball and do anything if you have two players around you and you're just standing there. It also makes the center of the pitch congested pushing the team to the flanks where the opponent want us to go and are well prepared.

I don't want him to be constantly running. I want him to be moving at the right time to be at the right place.

This is very well said.

Most teams will mark Messi and a few players will always follow him to the flanks if he goes there. Since we play with a midfielder more, it'd be better to have some space in the middle.

 

[Cruyff-Total Football]

Can't really set him up when you have Suarez in your team. Would love to see it, though.

The question is who will create the chances you want other than Iniesta who plays for 60 minutes. We don't have Modric, Isco, Kroos, Marcelo in our team.

One out of 10 crosses from Alba are accurate. And that's it.

 

[Raketa10]

I can’t believe people here have advice for Messi how to improve! Now he even doesn’t move how he should. Honestly this is the worst thread ever and I am out of this shit. Our team would be dreadful without him and half of you have problem with parts of his game? You should have problems with his team mates instead. Put Messi in that RM team and he would outscore Ronaldo easily.

Put Ronaldo in this Barca team and he wouldn’t score as much as he scores now with RM, not even close.

While Ronaldo only has to score Messi has to create and score. He basically has to prepare everything for himself. Our midfield is nowhere near as good as RM and that’s the main problem.

 

[Cruyff-Total Football]

I can’t believe people here have advice for Messi how to improve! Now he even doesn’t move how he should. Honestly this is the worst thread ever and I am out of this shit.

Reactionary.
Too much emphasize on stats.
Not recognizing RM without Ronaldo is 100 times an efficient team than Barca without Messi.
Not recognizing Messi plays the role of Ronaldo (goalscorer), Isco (dribbler) and chance creator (Modric).

They see Ronaldo always running towards penalty box and shouting to his teammates for cross and want Messi to replicate it without realizing the above mentioned circumstances.

 

[DonAK]

I see a reading comprehension learning disability is running viral here.

 

[Raketa10]

Reactionary.
Too much emphasize on stats.
Not recognizing RM without Ronaldo is 100 times an efficient team than Barca without Messi.
Not recognizing Messi plays the role of Ronaldo (goalscorer), Isco (dribbler) and chance creator (Modric).

They see Ronaldo always running towards penalty box and shouting to his teammates for cross and want Messi to replicate it without realizing the above mentioned circumstances.

100% agree with this. Majority of people today are unfortunately very superficial and tend to be influenced by hype.

 

[serghei]

I see a reading comprehension learning disability is running viral here.

Too much fan bias. It's the sole reason you can't have even a semi-objective comparison between them. Even factual statements like Ronaldo is a better scorer in CL top games than Messi, which should serve as basis to discuss why that is happening (something you touched by saying he moves way less than what is considered optimal, and something I touched by saying Messi is not a striker who likes to play in the box surrounded by defenders and this affects his goals output - combined with what you said) is being disputed as untrue by die hard Messi fans who think it's impossible for Ronaldo to be superior to Messi at some things. Well, he is. There are more important things that Messi is better than Ronaldo at, but there are some other things, also important, where Ronaldo has an edge.

 

[Cruyff-Total Football]

Too much fan bias. It's the sole reason you can't have even a semi-objective comparison between them. Even factual statements like Ronaldo is a better scorer in CL top games than Messi, which should serve as basis to discuss why that is happening (something you touched by saying he moves way less than what is considered optimal, and something I touched by saying Messi is not a striker who likes to play in the box surrounded by defenders and this affects his goals output - combined with what you said) is being disputed as untrue by die hard Messi fans who think it's impossible for Ronaldo to be superior to Messi at some things. Well, he is. There are more important things that Messi is better than Ronaldo at, but there are some other things, also important, where Ronaldo has an edge.

Tell me one player who could create chances for Messi as consistently as Kroos, Isco, Asensio, Modric, Marcelo other than Iniesta, I will accept that I'm biased.

 

[Stoichkov1]

Yes, and in 2014, 2016 and 2017 he's rarely been in the right place at the right time because he's been standing still and not moving at all.

I'm not saying he should move like Ronaldo. Only that he should make himself more available and open up passing lanes. You won't get the ball and do anything if you have two players around you and you're just standing there. It also makes the center of the pitch congested pushing the team to the flanks where the opponent want us to go and are well prepared.

I don't want him to be constantly running. I want him to be moving at the right time to be at the right place.

Messi has been running 8km per match since 2012.

In 2015 he had good performances but actually he was running 8km per match like every year.

He didn't run less against Roma yesterday.