Nelson Semedo

Danic

New member
"Potential" more often than not is used in a way that the word "Hype" makes more sense.
What has this to do with hype? I watched every game this season from the beginning and for me he just has everything to become a top RB.
He started so well but was suddenly was benched for no reason and this definitly threw him a bit out of line.
I would not say a paco(espite he made 1-2 good games),vidal or gomes has it.
 

kattanib

Well-known member
A word potential is causing a lot of problems on this forum.

People usually assume: if we'll play a player, he is going to improve a lot, so it's a win-win.

On the other hand, quite possible in the case of Dembele-Semedo combo:
1. we play them both
2. we lose La liga
3. they turn out to be average, or not good as expected

Imagine losing La liga and not getting absolutely anything out of that attempt to "test" 2 new guys.
Again, the problem is that probably 90% of people are blinded with a word " potential" and majority here don't even think about that Dembele might not make it here, and slightly more people have some doubts about Semedo.

We have been through this 100s of times and people don't understand that Barca is not a place where you can test things.
Or if we are testing things, we can't test them for too long.

For example, in season 2016/17.
We bought Denis, Gomes, Digne, Paco, Umtiti.
We had youngsters Samper and Alena.

Now, with this "we need to test players a lot and give them a lot of chances" logic, we would waste last season with playing Denis, Gomes, Paco for 25-30 matches.
Since, you need to play a player for at least 20 matches to see how he fits, links up with teammates, to see how a player will adapt to Barca, to see his skills.
What about Samper? We would have needed to give 20 matches to him also.
With all these tests, there is no way that we would win La liga or competed for a CL.

Fine.
Let's say that we wasted 1 year... for "a brighter" future.

And then a new season starts.
Now we bought Dembele, Deulofeu, Semedo, Paulinho.
What now, to play them 25-30 matches again and to see what will happen?
Ok, fine.
Let's say that a lot of them will suck in the first 20 matches, but we'll test them further, right?

This way, we would lose another La liga surely.
Then, in January we bought Mina.
And young Alena is here.
Now, we should give 20+ matches to Mina and Alena, right?
= to test them... To see whether they are good enough.

And then, we wasted 2 years in a row for testing.
And let's say that during tests we figured out that:
Denis sucks
Gomes sucks
Paco is not good enough
Deulofeu sucks
Dembele might be a bad fit
Semedo is not as good as expected
Samper is not good enough
Let's say that Mina will turn average (in theory).

Oh, and Coutinho is here also. We need to test him also...
So, 2 seasons in a row wasted and not too many new players gaines (most of them didn't reach expectations).

Then in summer 2018, we'll sell Gomes, Denis, Paco, Digne, maybe Semedo, Samper etc.
And we'll bring Arthur and 5 new players.
And the same story again:
= we need to test new guys properly, give them a lot of chances

If we would work this way, we would turn into Arsenal.
We would just test things each new season.
1 out of 3-4 players would be good enough, other 2-3 would be failures.
Then we would buy 4 new guys.
1 would be good enough, 3 would fail.
Then we would buy another 4 guys.
1 would be good enough, 3 would fail.

By then, Messi, Luis, Busi, Iniesta, Raki will retire.
then we'll need 5 new Cms, and 5 years to test them and find 1-2 good guys.
But by then, we'll need new Cfs again.
** Oh, add 2-3 new B-players whom we need to test in each new season.

In short, we would NEVER have a team who could play RIGHT NOW.
We would just be testing and testing over and over for the better future. And that future would never come, since we would be just testing over and over.

My point: this story explained above is a reason why we can't give 100 chances to Semedo if he is not good enough currently.
Or why we can't play Mina currently.
Or why Dembele didn't play yesterday.
Or why Alena and Samper can't play too much etc.

Players will get a certain amount of chances.
But unless if they will show some basic level of quality for Barca's level, they will soon play less and less and their Barca's career will soon come to an end.

That doesn't mean that we should give up from players after 5 matches, but.
I'll said it now, a lot of people will jump, but that's reality.
1. if Semedo will play equally as average as this season in the next 18 Months, we will surely buy a new RB in a summer of 2019 and he will be sold.
He was average this season. If he won't improve, quite likely that he will be gone after 2 years (like Denis and Gomes)
2. this will hurt a lot of people, but the same is with Dembele.
Imagine if his next season will be the same as this one.
Imo, he will be gone in a summer of 2019.

We didn't buy those guys to start to play good in 2022 or 2024.
And we can't wait for too long.

The same is with Denis, Gomes, Paco, Digne this summer.
We had them for 2 years. None of them improved in the 2nd year (except Gomes to some extent, but even that is not good enough for our level), and that's it regarding their Barca's career.

Everything what people said about Semedo is true:
1. he needs time
2. he will be better with more matches played

But still, he played 24 matches till now.
Barca won't give him 100 chances to test whether he will upgrade his play then.

Also, about ideas to, play Semedo-Dembele, lol.
What about Roberto then?
Should we move him into midfield then?
But then we'll play Iniesta-Busquets-Roberto-Dembele.
What about Rakitic, Paulinho, Coutinho?

So, let's test youngsters who are not performing well for now and let's kick out of a team older guys who are proven players on a world class levels and who are playing well RIGHT NOW?
Again, yes, we need to give chances to youngsters and new players, but only a limited number of chances.

Why? Why would you write all of this?
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
How does BBZ pull all these hypothetical numbers and percentages from his ass all the time?

Literally every post he makes he'll say some BS like "let's say we waste 1 season" or "60% of the time this will work" or "out of 5 passes 3 will be unsuccessful."

Then he'll use these arbitrary numbers he formulated in his own head without using any actual empirical data to concoct some elaborate 2000 word theory that would leave the most acclaimed philosophers questioning their lives.

Lol.
Numbers are an example.
Without numbers, we have simplified posts on forum: a player XX needs to play all the time.

Do a math for yourself and just take, for example: Dembele, Coutinho, Semedo, Deulofeu, Alena this season.
Let's assume that in each match when you'll play with players who are here for a several seasons, you will play with 100% of your current strength.
In each match when you put a new guy in a lineup, your strength will drop from 100% to: ENTER your estimated %. Do you think that our strength drops to 99, 98, 97, 96, 95... 90, 80% etc
If you play 2 new guys, your team's strength drops even more.
Then count in how many matches per season you will play with a weakened team and try to estimate whether a risk is worth it or not.

Now, in each match when you don't play with 100% of your current strength, you are playing with a weakened team=to POSSIBLY GAIN something in the future (if a new guys turns good).
On the other hand, if you play a new guy and he turns into a fail, you wasted 5, 10, 20 or 30 matches when you played him and when a team played with a weakened team's strength.
If you played 2 guys who failed, both for 25 matches, you wasted between 25 and 50 matches on these 2 guys when you didn't play with your 100% of team's strength.

So, basically, each time when you buy a new guy (or play a B team youngster), you are gambling.
You are ruining your current team's strength with a hope that you will get something from that player in the future.

But then, to make these maths more fun, stats say that more Barca's signings will fail than will make it.
Also, way more B-team players will fail also.

Then, the next time when you'll play a new guy (with a potential) or a B-team guy, you should be aware (if you are learning from mistakes in the past) that playing with new guys is always a gamble and that you are weakening your first team each time when you play them (unless if they play awesome from the day1, which rarely happens).

When you sum all of this, you may understand easier WHY Semedo is getting less and less chances.

My numbers are just my estimation to explain this problem in a simpler way, in numbers.

Without that, you'll just have posts like:
User XX: Semedo should play. EV is dumb. How will Semedo improve if he won't play?
User XX2: Alena must play right away. EV is dumb. How will he improve if he won't play?
Then, they'll play for 10 matches, and let's say be average in the first 10 matches and we'll lose a lot of points.
User XX: Semedo must play. 10 matches is not enough, even though he was average till today.
The real question is: Ok, he should play. But for how much longer? How many points is worth to lose because of 1 player?
To add more fun, how many points is ok to lose when you are testing 5 new guys/Bteam players in 1 season?

Majority of posters act as if they have absolutely no clue about risks.
As if everything is just a win-win situation.
Like: play Dembele all the time, everything will be fine. There is nothing we can lose.
Play Semedo, everything will be fine. Play Alena, he will turn good, just play him. There is nothing we can lose.
Play both Semedo-Dembele. There is nothing we can lose.

I don't know a simpler way to explain this than in numbers.
Cause again, if not, we'll just have a bunch of win-win posts like: Semedo must play if we want him to succeed.

Well, yeah. He needs to play.
But he (and EVERY other guy EVER in Barca's shirt) will only get a certain amount of chances.
After some point (a number of matches or an amount of time), if you aren't reaching a desired level or if you haven't shown strong reasons why we should keep faith in you, Barca will always keep on looking for new solutions.

About empirical data:
Semedo played 24 matches.
He is average till now.
Stats and our history imply that players in his situation will get another season. If they won't improve, they'll be sold and a club will move on.

A word "potential" and how he can't improve if he is rotating with Roberto have nothing to do with an empirical data, but are romantic excuses by our fans who are afraid to hear the cold truth about a majority of players.
 
Last edited:

Joan

Well-known member
Also, about ideas to, play Semedo-Dembele, lol.
What about Roberto then?
Should we move him into midfield then?
But then we'll play Iniesta-Busquets-Roberto-Dembele.
What about Rakitic, Paulinho, Coutinho?

So, let's test youngsters who are not performing well for now and let's kick out of a team older guys who are proven players on a world class levels and who are playing well RIGHT NOW?
Again, yes, we need to give chances to youngsters and new players, but only a limited number of chances.
You quoted me, so I want to be clear.

Many here assume Semedo has flopped so far, me among those.
But, the competition we are less comfortable with is still to be played, we'll need fresh legs, we'll need practiced actions and seniors at their best. Do I think playing Roberto week in week out tiring him is the best path? No.

So Semedo will have to get his chances. Not many but some, and if he's to be played, it should be with a stable partner, with someone to link up with. See if he's a flop or not.
Exhaust all the excuses one can make.

If he doesn't succeed this season, we'll need a new RB, that's clear.

On the other hand, Dembele is paid way to much to be treated the same. He'll have his time on the pitch. No matter whether he'll be the one to make it here big or not.

I pretty much agree with you, as usual.
 

Zincubus

Banned
I am confused as to why Samedo isn't starting every game at RB..

Whe he first started playing for us everyone was going crazy how well he played .. what a great buy etc

Then a few months down the line and it looks as though his days are numbered .... What went wrong ?

It's not as though Sergi Roberto is the best RB in the world ....he still continues with those stupid infield passes that are easily intercepted and put us in immediate danger .....but because he came through the system he's basically fire proof ...

Yawn...
 

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
I am confused as to why Samedo isn't starting every game at RB..

Whe he first started playing for us everyone was going crazy how well he played .. what a great buy etc

Then a few months down the line and it looks as though his days are numbered .... What went wrong ?

It's not as though Sergi Roberto is the best RB in the world ....he still continues with those stupid infield passes that are easily intercepted and put us in immediate danger .....but because he came through the system he's basically fire proof ...

Yawn...

Roberto is better going forward than Semedo and fits the Barca style better. Semedo looks clueless sometimes what he is supposed to do(esp. Offensively), but I'm not sure who to blame on that, coach or the player.
 

Behrox

Vice President of FC Barcelona
I don't understand how Semedo was on fire thing is coming about. He looks clueless in the buildup and general attacking play. He might be strong physically in defense, but I remember him getting skinned failing to cover the overlap quite some time (most prominently against Valencia where we conceded from it). Roberto is currently the better player, miles better in the buildup and attack and pretty decent defensively all things considered.

Semedo for me has to step up and grab at the chance when he gets to play here and there, but he is for now clear 2nd to Bob in my eyes.

In BBZ figure world, Bob is a solid 7/10 in attack and 5/10 in defense (overall) while Semedo is 4/10 in attack and 6/10 in defense. Keep in mind we rely heavily on our fullbacks on the attacking front and play most of the game in the opposition half, so a above average attacking player who is decent defensively is a better fullback for us than a above average defensive player who is decent attack/buildup wise.
 

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
Roberto is no where near as good defenseman. You're selling him short defensively. You will see how Chelsea will abuse Robertos side tomorrow. It won't be pretty. I love Roberto, but he shouldn't be defenseman, especially #1 RB.
 

Sorin

Well-known member
It's simple, if Semedo doesn't work, for whatever reason, we should absolutely look to buy another RB. While Roberto has done ok, it's still not enough. He's good in attack, nothing spectacular though and just ok in defence. It's simply not his position.

Sell Semedo while his stock is still high and look for something else if the coach doesn't trust him. Stop wasting time with another season of Roberto at RB ffs.
 

gr98

New member
It's simple, if Semedo doesn't work, for whatever reason, we should absolutely look to buy another RB. While Roberto has done ok, it's still not enough. He's good in attack, nothing spectacular though and just ok in defence. It's simply not his position.

Sell Semedo while his stock is still high and look for something else if the coach doesn't trust him. Stop wasting time with another season of Roberto at RB ffs.

I'd go all out for Odriozola if Semedo is sold.
 

ThwiX

Best midfielder around
[tw]965961110619938816[/tw]

[tw]965961645330714629[/tw]
Not even surprised one bit. Kind of player you just know will blossom for a different team when he leaves us for consistent game time.
 

George_Costanza

Active member
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