Neymar Jr. - v5

El Flaco

Active member
Neymar's goal vs. Alaves

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Neeraj

Senior Member
He was quite terrible against Alaves. Kept dribbling into players over and over and lost possession except for that one great run, bad decision making for the most part and a lot of ball hogging. I really like Neymar, but this was definitely a game for his detractors.
 

Zinedinho

New member
Neymar doesn't have the same call control as Messi. He should be more intelligent and stop trying the play of the game near our own box. Just pass the ball.
 

Windhook

Well-known member
When you stop comparing/seeing Neymar as a successor to Messi then you'll find peace of mind with the Brazilian. Like I do, in my opinion he is a good addition to the squad, but not a cornerstone. I disagree with some of his actions on the pitch, but blaming him solely for our bad season is not justified. He needs players like Iniesta and Messi around him to operate effectively. I don't see Ney playing one-two's with the likes of the slower (-est :lol: ) Andre Gomes or Arda Turan.
 
When you stop comparing/seeing Neymar as a successor to Messi then you'll find peace of mind with the Brazilian. Like I do, in my opinion he is a good addition to the squad, but not a cornerstone. I disagree with some of his actions on the pitch, but blaming him solely for our bad season is not justified. He needs players like Iniesta and Messi around him to operate effectively. I don't see Ney playing one-two's with the likes of the slower (-est :lol: ) Andre Gomes or Arda Turan.

Depends on what you mean by "successor." If you mean quality-wise, absolutely not because no one will ever come close to Messi. But he will be our star player post-Messi.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Neymar will be 30 or 31 in post-Messi era.
And quite likely, he will leave a club before Messi.

Let's rather concentrate on a short term future.

This post-Messi thing sounds as if Neymar will be 25 or something in post-Messi era.
 

GetIn

New member
Depends on what you mean by "successor." If you mean quality-wise, absolutely not because no one will ever come close to Messi. But he will be our star player post-Messi.

I don't know why people keep assuming he will be the go-to guy after Messi leaves Barca. Neymar is going to turn 26 next season and I think it is safe to say Messi is going to stay at Barca for at least another 5 seasons, after which he will return to Argentina. I have no doubt Messi can continue to play at a high level until he is 33-34 since his game really doesn't involve that much pace and he doesn't run much even now. Neymar's game on the other hand is extremely reliant on pace, especially his dribbling attributes, where he usually just blows past opponents. By the time Messi is gone or declines substantial amount Neymar will be around 30-31 and at that point who knows where is game will be. Neymar will have definitely lost a large chunk of pace by then and it is not clear whether he will improve his decision-making skills either. I really don't think this team should ever become reliant on Neymar as the number one guy until he can prove that he is consistent.
 

booge

New member
I have wrote about that before: when Neymar gets the ball, Barcelona's teamplay or team-action is more or less dead.
He will either dribble past 5 players and score (very rarely), or he will dribble past 4 players and lose the ball while trying to dribble the 5th guy.

His actions in that match:

Action 1: fouled while dribbling through 2 opponents. Other teammates didn't receive the ball after Neymar got the ball
Action 2: trying to dribble past 3 players. Dispossessed.
Action 3: a bad pass after a successful dribble.
Action 4: a good pass
Action 5: a backpass
Action 6: fouled
Action 7: awesome assist for Gomes
Action 8: a lost ball after 1 successful dribble
Action 9: a lost ball
Action 10: a good pass to Messi
Action 11: a lost ball
Action 12: dribbling past 3, dispossessed
Action 13: a bad cross, lost ball
Action 14: a simple pass
Action 15: dispossessed while dribbling
Action 16: dribbling past 3, passing to Messi
Action 17: fouled
Action 18: hogging the ball, dribbling past 2 players, and making a bad pass. Ball lost
Action 19: a cross for Messi, inaccurate. Ball lost
Action 20: backwards dribbling, dispossessed, ball lost
Action 21: dribbling past 2, ball goes out for a throw in for Barca
Action 22: Neymar gets the ball inside a box, he tries a shot. A shot goes wide.
Action 23: a crossing attempt. A bad pass
Action 24: passes a ball to a teammate
Action 25: the same action continued from an action 24, he gets the ball back, he is dispossessed again
Action 26: Neymar gets the ball. He gets fouled.
(a free kick. A shot goes wide)
Action 27: dribbles past 2 opponents. A ball goes out for a corner.
Action 28: a bad pass inside a box.

Now, let's check some numbers from this match.
When you watch a match or a youtube video, it MAY SEEM as if so much is going around Neymar, to some extent.
But when you put all those actions and attempts on paper, this is what you get on the other hand:

1. touched the ball 27 times
2. lost the ball or being dispossessed: 14 times
3. making a good pass or a simple backward pass to a teammate: 6 times out of 27 times he got the ball
4. being fouled: 5 times
5. shots on goal: 1 (wide)
6. earned corners/throw ins: 1 corner, 1 throw in, 5 fouls

So, people will say: but he TRIES so many things. He GETS things going etc.
A key thing which I hate about him and why I think that he is a bad fit our style and system is:
= he touched the ball 27 times in an open play.
Out of 27 times when he got the ball, the action was "DEAD" for Barcelona in 21 action.
That means, that in 21 actions out of 27, when Neymar received a ball, NO OTHER Barca's player received a ball after him.
The action ended either in Neymar dribbling past 3 players and getting dispossessed eventually or making a bad pass/cross after making 1-2-3 dribbles before that.

On the other hand, he probably had 20-ish or 25 successful dribbles in this match (or getting easily past an opponent). And people may easily reply: did you see that? Did you see what he has done multiple times?
But again, out of 20-ish dribbles or running past defenders, he managed to pass a ball (in the end) to a teammate ONLY 6 times in 90 minutes.

So, 20 dribbles:
1. for 1 shot on goal
2. for zero goals
3. for 6 passes to teammates
= a lot of running, dribbling, making tricks for spectators=and absolutely zero end product for his teammates and for Barca

The same as how our opponents during Pep's Tiki-Taka days DIDN'T play parked buses ONLY because they wanted to do so, but because our slow build up possession style FORCED the opponents to park the bus, since there is nothing else you can do while Barca passes the ball left to right for 100 times.
Imo, with Neymar it is the same: we are NOT playing chaotic ONLY because of Lucho and ONLY because we have a poor midfield. But Neymar is one big reason for our current chaotic play.

Neymar vs Juventus home:

Action 1: dispossessed
2: cross
3: pass
4: a bad pass
5: fouled
6: pass
7: pass
8: shot, wide
9: a few passes
10: dispossessed
11: dribbles, then corner
12: hogging the ball, fouled
13: dribbling through 800 players, a bad pass in the end
14: hogging the ball and waiting for a foul. Gets fouled
15: a bad cross
16: a bad pass
17: a good cross
18: dribbling through 800 players again, dispossessed
19: dribbling, shooting wide
20: hogging the ball, dispossessed
21: a pass to Messi
22: dribbling past 3-4 players, some sort of a pass, let's say
23: dribbling, a good pass
24: shooting wide
25: an inaccurate cross, a corner
26: a bad pass
27: good cross
28: bad cross, lost ball
29: dribbling past 4 players, then a bad pass
30: fouled
31: a good pass

1. touched the ball: 31 times
2. lost balls/dispossessed: 10 times
3. good passes: 11
4. a teammate touching a ball AFTER Neymar recieved the ball: 11 times out of 31 actions
5. action being DEAD once Neymar recieves the ball: 20 out of 31

In these 2 matches, an action ended in this or that way once Neymar received the ball: 41 times out of total 58 actions.
That is around 70% of actions.
In 70% of actions when Neymar received the ball, NO OTHER Barca's player touched the ball after that moment.

Of course, he is not such an action killer in all matches (killing 70% of actions), but even in his "good" matches, the amount of actions which he kills (teammates not getting the ball once he gets it) is usually always around 50%.

So, once again, imo, a huge reason why we play chaotic in not only because of Lucho and poor midfield, but because of Neymar and his style of play.
A Million dollar question: how to play a possession football or keep the ball in our feet for longer than 30 seconds while Neymar is on his field?

Also, I would dare to say that his chaotic style and losing too many balls is affecting our midfielders who have to run up and down way too many times (and Messi too). And then majority of them are tired and poor in attacking actions later in the match.

If that was mourinho as manager of neymar he would shoot off his bench and all hell would break loose.
Fantastic post mate. It's good to see folks back it up with evidence.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Neymar is not going to leave even if you hold a protest outside the club offices. Let it go man...
 

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