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FlaFCB
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Neymar Jr. - v5
- Thread starter El Flaco
- Start date
DennyCrane
Senior Member
And buy which player(s) ? Who is available, willing to transfer, doesn't play for an oligarch club and is near Neymar's talent level ? I get that people are disappointed with him, I am too, but the football world would laugh their socks off if we did this. And a lot of the disappointment comes from the discrepancy between performance and potential, the actual Neymar vs. the Neymar that could be. So, if everyone, even implicitly, acknowledges the ultra high ceiling and the potential, Barca should contemplate how it can get the best out of him first and foremost.
Other than that, considering Barca's transfer policy, if this board gets 200 million in their hands expect us to buy more Pacos and Vidals.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
If this was a 2003-2004-2005 with Laporta-Txiki-Rijkaard, I would sell Neymar tomorrow.
Those guys knew how to buy players, actually how to buy skillful players, with a right mental strength.
Almost all of their transfers were a huge success.
Today, it is hard to tell, whether a market is just too expensive and we can't buy anything better, or our president (Barto) and a sporting director (Robert) are just idiots.
Probably it's a mixture of both:
1. a tougher times to do business
2. and our business lead by idiots
For example, look at our transfer from that board in 2003, 04, 05:
2003:
1. Ronaldinho 27M=world class (5/5)
2. Quaresma 16,5M=1/5 fail
3. Rustu free=1/5 fail
4. Marquez 5,2=4,5/5 (very, very good)
5. V Bronckhorst=4,5/5 (very, very good)
1. Albertini, free=ok
2. Guily 8,5M=good transfer (3,5/5)
3. Edmilson 8M=good (3,5/5)
4. Deco 21M=excelllent (5/5)
5. Sylvinho 2M=useful (3/5)
6. Etoo 24M=excellent (5/5)
7. Larsson free=very good (4/5)
2005:
1. Van Bommel free=useful 3/5
2. Ezquerro=1,5/5 meh to poor
14 transfers in their first 3 years, with only 3 flops/fails (Rustu Recber, Quaresma and Ezquerro).
And 11 awesome signings.
Current board with Lucho:
Vermaelen, (Mathieu), Douglas, Arda, Vidal, Cillessen, Digne, Gomes, Paco, Denis.
They also chased 100 Million Pogba, then a new Pogba Gerson and similar.
Ok, they had some good transfers also in Bravo, Mats, Rakitic, Suarez, Umtiti but that's more or less it.
Someone will say that the prices were lower then (2-3-4x times). That's true.
BUT, look at the prices and quality of players bought during Laporta-Txiki-Rijkaard, from the most expensive:
1. Ronaldinho 27M
2. Etoo 24M
3. Deco 21M
4. - Quaresma 16,5 M (sold after 1 year in a Deco's deal)
5. Guily 8,5M
6. Edmilson 8M
7. Marquez 5,2M
8. peanuts: Belletti, Silvinhio, Van Bronckhorst
9. free transfers: Larsson, Van Bommel, Ezquerro
Now, they bought a whole team for around 100-110 Millions. (That would be like 300M today)
Well, we can't compare those prices with today's.
BUT, we can compare those prices with transfers from Barca from 2-3-4 years before, like:
2000: (Gaspart):
Rw Overmars 40M
Cm Gerard Lopez 22M
Cf Alfonso Perez 16,5M
Cdm Petit 14M
= these 4 players cost 92M, while Ronaldinho-Etoo-Deco together were 72M.
2001:
Cf Saviola 35,9M (lel) (that would be 100+M today)
Cf Geovanni Deiberson 21M (wtf) (released for FREE only 2 years later, to Benfica)
= again, Saviola+Deiberson together 57 Millions. While Ronaldinho and Etoo together were 51 Millions.
Would you rather have Saviola and Deiberson or Ronnie and Etoo?
Cb Christanval 15M
Cm Fabio Rochemback 9M
Cb P. Andersson 8M
= 90 Millions splashed again in one summer. For nothing...
(In current era, this would something like 270 Millions in transfers and you get ZERO good players.
Or, Gaspart has spent 92+90 Millions in 2 summers, which is 182 Million, or like 540 Millions today. And we got nothing. ZERO good players from 540 Millions)
2002:
Cam Riquelme 10M
So, in summers of 2000-2001-2002, we spent:
192 Millions on Overmars, Gerard Lopez, Alfonso Perez, Petit, Saviola, Deiberson, Christanval, Rochemback, Patrik Andersson, Riquelme.
Around 570-600 Millions invested (in worth) in the current era.
Majority of people will ask: wait what, who are these guys (more or less)?
Well, exactly...
Our poor board didn't have a clue how to buy a player who will actually fit into our team and we were just buying random overpaid youngsters and overpaid oldies each summer.
Now, once again, it shows how good job Laporta, Txiki, Rijkaard did with "only" 110 Millions (330 Millions today).
Gaspart splashed 192 Millions and we got ZERO players who made an impact (or even stayed at our club for more than 2-3 years).
While Txiki bought: Ronaldinho-Etoo-Deco-Guily-Edmilson-Marquez-Van Bronckhorst-Belletti plus Larsson, Van Bommel for around 110 Millions.
They won 2 La Ligas, 1 CL in the first 3 years and they started our new era of success which lasts since 2005 and 2006, with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Ronnie, Etoo, Deco, Puyol, Valdes etc.
I want to say: yes, each era is different is the prices are going up.
But for me personally, this board and a director Robert are clowns, the same as Gaspart's directors.
1. they believe that Neymar could be our leader and we already invested 300+M in him (transfer fee, money to his dad, money to other parties, penalties on court, new penalties on court in the next year, wages to Neymar, raised wages to Neymar, illegal money to Santos, first right on some players, Neymar not paying taxes so let's give him even higher wages to compensate it etc)
2. Bravo/Mats saga
3. Douglas
4. Vermaelen, Mathieu
5. Arda, Vidal for 60M
5. Paco, Cillessen, Digne, Gomes, Denis for 110M
So, yes, times are hard, other teams are rich also.
But these guys in charge act like idiots, the same as in Gaspart's era.
The only difference was that a poor Gaspart didn't have Messi (Xavi&Iniesta) to bail him out and bring him 100s of trophies.
If Barto/Rossell didn't have Messi (Xavi&Iniesta) during their era, who knows how poor our trophy cabinet would have looked like with the way how they are running the business and "picking" players.
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FlaFCB
Guest
Some things haven't changed. Same old same 
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
No guarantee someone like Hazard or Dybala will do any better either.
And the moment we sell him for 200m, every tom, dick and harry are gonna rob us and demand 150m or so for their players
The very same player has been head and shoulders above his Barca form for his National Team, and so has Suarez. I'd wait to see how this rolls out. Could be a case of wrong instructions, or being encouraged to play this way.
If Pep can get Sterling to stop being a donkey with the ball at his feet then why cannot someone make Neymar replicate his more direct playing style?
If you noticed then Arda does exactly the same when he's playing at LW. Keeps the ball for longer than he probably should and drives to the center to release the ball. Now obviously he doesn't have the pace to take on players like Neymar, but it's still of note.
Just compare our LW & RWs under Pep and Tito. Different instructions.
And the moment we sell him for 200m, every tom, dick and harry are gonna rob us and demand 150m or so for their players
The very same player has been head and shoulders above his Barca form for his National Team, and so has Suarez. I'd wait to see how this rolls out. Could be a case of wrong instructions, or being encouraged to play this way.
If Pep can get Sterling to stop being a donkey with the ball at his feet then why cannot someone make Neymar replicate his more direct playing style?
If you noticed then Arda does exactly the same when he's playing at LW. Keeps the ball for longer than he probably should and drives to the center to release the ball. Now obviously he doesn't have the pace to take on players like Neymar, but it's still of note.
Just compare our LW & RWs under Pep and Tito. Different instructions.
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Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Us selling Neymar will be akin to Bayern selling Kroos, one of the stupidist decisions ever.
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FlaFCB
Guest
If it was to psg, 100m plus Verratti as part of the deal, I'd do it. That's never happening, and I can't see robert/licho/barto making good use of that amount of money. He also doesn't want to leave, that's the only reason he didn't go to psg in the summer. His father was keen about it, from an interview I read recently.
Just strikes me as damn funny as some focus on him not scoring, but then don't mention his record of assists this season so far. Not that Neymar's been brilliant, he hasn't. But the bias is still strong here.
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
That's just stupid.
If this season ends up in flames with 75% of the squad underperforming, would you get rid of all them? You said it yourself, in the real world if you under perform, you're fired.
Or is your fallacious statement only limited to a single player, which is Neymar in this case? In that case whose posts are biased?
It's a simple question
@dakt
If this season ends up in flames with 75% of the squad underperforming, would you get rid of all them? You said it yourself, in the real world if you under perform, you're fired.
Or is your fallacious statement only limited to a single player, which is Neymar in this case? In that case whose posts are biased?
It's a simple question
@dakt
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dakt
Active member
If we need major cleanup because stars are unmotivated, than what would you do? Raise salaries?
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Let's say Rakitic, Neymar, Suarez, Gomes, Mascherano, Busquets, Denis, Arda keep underperforming until the rest of the season.
Would you get rid of all of them? Yes or No?
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
I actually did, if you look at the post above yours which you ignored, but let me reply.
No you don't raise their salaries to enormous levels, but some of them have been in negotiations for quite some time and there's no way the club stalls it. Sends a wrong message. And it doesn't really matter. A lot of time these contract renewals are there so the club can get a good fee if they sell a player. Rather have a guy who got 4 years left instead of 1 year, if you intend to sell him.
Now please reply to my question.
Because had you been in charge, Pique would not have been at this club as he was underperforming in 2011-12 and 2012-13. Remember, you words. Underperforming = Sackable offence.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I have wrote a few days ago:
Laporta/Txiki/Rijkaard sold all underperforming foreigners, kept domestic guys, promoted new La Masia guys and bought new/fresh blood foreigners.
First 2 summers:
-- out foreigners: F. De Boer, Cocu, Kluivert, Reiziger, Overmars, Bonano, Andersson, Christanval, Geovanni, Riquelme, Rochemback, Enke, Quaresma, Rustu Recber
-- out Spanish guys: Alfonso Perez (Paco's level of a Cf), Luis Garcia, Luis Enrique (old)
-- stayed: Valdes, Puyol, Xavi, Motta, Gerard Lopez, Gabri, Oleguer, Iniesta
Pep also sold underperforming foreigners, and kept only needed foreigners, domestic players, promoted new domestic players and bought NEW foreigners:
First 2 summers:
-- out foreigners: Ronaldinho, Deco, Edmilson, Zambrotta, Thuram, Etoo, Henrique, Silvinho, Hleb, Caceres, Keirrison, Gudjohnsen, Caceres
-- out Spanish guys: Ezquerro, Oleguer, Jorquera
-- stayed domestic players: Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta
-- stayed foreigners: Messi (La Masia player), Marquez, Milito, Abidal, Yaya
So, about your question, if all those players would underperform, the board should sit down and pick who should leave and who can stay (imo, at least 50% of them should leave).
For example, if I were a director and if ALL these players would underperform, this is whom I would sell:
Sell:
1. Neymar=because you can get the highest fee for him. If he stays, we will pay a lot on wages and we will risk another poor season with him, plus his fee dropping lower and lower if he'll have another criminal season
2. Mascherano=old and asked to leave in last summers
3. Arda=old, not a good fit, he needs to go.
75% for selling, 25% for staying:
1. Rakitic=older. 2nd poor season in a row. If we sell him, we should keep a similar player (younger Gomes)
50% for selling, 50% for staying:
1. Luis Suarez=he had 2 world class seasons and 1 poor season. He could be given one more chance, especially since it is hard to buy a good fit for a Cf position
25% for selling, 75% for staying:
1. Gomes=a younger player. If we sell Rakitic, we need 1 player of a different type than Denis/Iniesta/Rafinha
2. Denis=a domestic player. Those guys usually get more chances unless if they are extremely underperforming
3. Busquets=a club's legend. A club never sells those players unless if we have a new player for his position of the same quality. Which we don't
So, probably, I would sell:
Neymar, Mascherano, Arda, Rakitic.
Suarez would get one more chance.
Busi, Denis, Gomes would also get at least one more chance.
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DennyCrane
Senior Member
Our balance sheet looks pretty bad alright
When Barca buys players now, every seller club channels their inner FC Porto and rips the club off left and right. And the oligarch clubs were a major game changer too; with theoretically unlimited resources the only players you get from them are the has-beens or players who fell out of favour with the club for whatever reason, aka a basket of deplorables. And the players who signed up for PSG for example already made a conclusive statement that, when in doubt, they'll take cash over league prestige any day. So the intangibles, like playing together with Messi and the gang or playing the strongest league in the world, doesn't work that much in Barca's favour either as far as these players are concerned, or at least not as much as we may wish. The result of that is that a lot of of players who are potentially interesting are completely off limits irrespective of money offered as the club doesn't have to sell and the player is already swimming in it.
Which is why I stated that there are no realistic alternatives to Neymar at the moment.
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