Ousmane Dembélé

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ajnotkeith

Senior Member
OVI9323 said:
I understand what you mean when you say that some are hating but in fact not all of us hate him. Like serghei say, saying that he not as good as Vinicius is not "Hating" him. When you speak about me, if anybody look at my history of comment for the last years, I was almost at Birdy positive/optimist level of support for him. Imo; 2-3 years ago, if you asked me to choose dembele over any player in the world, I'd have token dembele because despite his flaws, i loved his "X factor", eletrical play. In a way, he remind me of messi and I was expecting him to be more effective with time and maturity.

Xavi sayed he's at prime level of neymar, Mbappe sayed "Dembele is better than me", Setien said, he almost had an org*sm when he see dembele trained "Dembele bring me to tears", Tuchel said Dembele is a genuis and best player that played for him, Semedo, Malcom, Pedri and all type of player said how good Dembele is. Welp after 2 years of having a system based arround him guess who is 2 years in a row in Europa league? And you see i never speak of 5 years since i try to play nice and don't take his injury injury into account

And for now I don't really see what Xavi is trying to do with this team and find his obsession with senior busquet quite strange. Also I don't like how he's not asking his player to use more the run behind defenses done by Raphinha or even dembele sometimes. Also I don't like how he benched Frenkie de Jong since even if he's not flawless, he'd have help big time of Ucl. So you see i'm not a fervent Xavi supporter but still notice that Dembele doesn't help enough when you really need him like a Mbappe or Vinicius could do sometimes against Big team.

To anybody who say that i'm hating on Dembele, i'll ask the same question I asked to retard man who is now on ignore list since his few brain cells leaved this world prematurely, and I trust that it will be more instructive to have your opinion

Seen this last 3 years history, if you had to choose between Dembele and VInicius, who would you honestly chose? and could you please not speak about "Hating" but just objectif data that show why you would chose Dembele over vinicius? and not subjective one like "all player can change" or "he can still be better".
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I would say Vinicius is the better player but not as much difference as people say, and Dembele has some advantages that he doesn't as well as the other way around.

Vinicius has greater skills in decision-making, team play, understanding of the game etc and movement but Dembele is faster, a better dribbler and a better creator.

These factors make Vinicius better because in a top team, a good tactical understanding of the game and good movement is very helpful, which Dembele lacks, but as I said I feel Dembele has more natural talent. I also think the 'big games' argument against Dembele under Xavi isn't fair as he was great in both Clasicos he played last year and scored against Inter.

My overall point is in this current Barca which has a lot of issues, Dembele is not one of them and one of the biggest assets we have even if he is not better than Vinicius. So it confuses me to see how much hate is directed to him when he has been one of the best players under Xavi.
 
DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Dembele is a better dribbler than Vinicius? In what world? Ignore stats for a moment and just watch both of them play cmon. Agree with Dembele being a better creator though.

I guess if you love high volume dribbling that works against shit teams but never against good defenders Dembele is better.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Vini this season probably more on the volume side certainly in La Liga.

He is losing the ball almost x3 more with bad touches and getting dispossed twice as often on the ball. He is also better v shit teams in La Liga and wasnt that great v top teams in league last season and wanst great v Barca/Atleti this season either.

Not sure that argument stands up really.

Vini is high volume also with lots of losses of posession.

Small margins at times as well.. Dembele probably should have 'created' a pen v Bayern, hit post away to Inter and crossed the ball in for Pedris chopped off goal before scoring at home to Inter.
 
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mc_lovin

Senior Member
We are not even comparing Dembele to a Balon d'Or level player here and he's clearly worse. I just don't believe you can play coherent football with him in the team.
 
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OVI9323

Senior Member
ajnotkeith said:
I would say Vinicius is the better player but not as much difference as people say, and Dembele has some advantages that he doesn't as well as the other way around.

Vinicius has greater skills in decision-making, team play, understanding of the game etc and movement but Dembele is faster, a better dribbler and a better creator.

These factors make Vinicius better because in a top team, a good tactical understanding of the game and good movement is very helpful, which Dembele lacks, but as I said I feel Dembele has more natural talent. I also think the 'big games' argument against Dembele under Xavi isn't fair as he was great in both Clasicos he played last year and scored against Inter.

My overall point is in this current Barca which has a lot of issues, Dembele is not one of them and one of the biggest assets we have even if he is not better than Vinicius. So it confuses me to see how much hate is directed to him when he has been one of the best players under Xavi.
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Agree with several of your point, nice to have a good interaction.

About Dembele it's less about "hate" and more about having too much expectation since his "Natural talent" is quite high and to be more precise...what i'm waiting from him is what he showed during the pre season.
Is he one of the best forward in this barca (In comparaison to "Your daughter is not safe arround me" Ferran, eternally back of injury "Ansu", newscommer "Raphinha", Are you still a barca player "Depay") ? Judging his speed and his G/a output, yes. But I expect him to play like a top 10 player in the world since I think he could reach this level (even if i'm less and less convinced of this with time) and not like a top 100 winger in the world.

About Dembele being better dribbler than Vini... no really sure.. Yes, he seems to have more creativity but in short space, I think that he's not as strong as when he as a lot of space.
Put him in a one on one situation during a counter attack and yes, he's a nightmare to defend on but put him closer to the goal with 2-3 defender arround him and player like Coman, Sane, Vinicius, even Mbappe are better than him.

Anyway I wish him a good world cup, hope he doesn't get injured and come back here with the same mentality he hass now. Times will tell if he can one day be more clutch. Against Inter he scored but still has token a lot of wrong decision and for me as soon as he was a Big part of a team that went 2 times in Europa league, it's a confirmation that he doesn't do enough in "Big games". You can say, he scored against athletico madrid, golazo against Seville, golazo against tothenham or chelsea but at the end of the day when we really need him he didn't do enough. For instance this years, if there was one matches where he had to shine, it was against bayern... adn once again he tried but didn't do enough

But it's not hate, it's just that for player Ferran, I know this guy had an abyssimal level and i don't expect a lot from him, same for Depay and Raphina has still this excuse of being quite new here.
 
JohnN

JohnN

Senior Member
OVI9323 said:
..Put him in a one on one situation during a counter attack and yes, he's a nightmare to defend on...
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This is his greatest asset, but even then, he manages to mess up 9 out of 10 times. He makes a wrong decision in almost any situation. It's not about his amazing speed or trickery 1v1. Those are great attributes. But his shots usually target the stands, his passes have too much weight or are misplaced, he holds on to the ball for too long to take that 1 more dribble. If he was 19 all these would be fixable, but he is in prime footballer age now.
 
Neeraj

Neeraj

Senior Member
JohnN said:
This is his greatest asset, but even then, he manages to mess up 9 out of 10 times. He makes a wrong decision in almost any situation. It's not about his amazing speed or trickery 1v1. Those are great attributes. But his shots usually target the stands, his passes have too much weight or are misplaced, he holds on to the ball for too long to take that 1 more dribble. If he was 19 all these would be fixable, but he is in prime footballer age now.
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Really not sure how much more of Dembele we have to see for everyone (incl Xavi and the management) to finally get it - this guy needs to be sold. He is an asset that will bring us some kind of money, albeit nowhere close to what we paid for him.

People keep talking about his so-called dribbling and how he's the only one on the team who creates anything, but fail to see that 99% of everything he does never ever leads to anything good. Put in a smarter player but less quick, less efficient dribbler in his place, and give him the freedom to try and do whatever he wants whenever he wants as Dembele does, and you'd get better output (not like that's what we should be getting/doing). We need to move on - he will never be good enough to lead a Barca team - he's just not got it. This is his sixth season here FFS.
 
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feggydinho

Senior Member
Dembele had the highest assist in the league last season and people rightly criticized his finishing then as he had 2 goals and used to sky his shots (fewer shots on target)

Now Dembele probably worked on his shooting, and currently ranks second stats-wise amongst our attackers with shot-on-target (Lewa is clearly the first), he also created the most chances, has the highest assists, and is our second-highest goal scorer in the league but you would think he has 0 goals and assists from the takes here criticizing his output.

Saw an interesting stat in their shots in the CL this season with Dembele having 5 SoT (shots-on-target) from 10 and Raphinha with 0 SoT from 10, but takes here make it look like Dembele is the one with 0 SoT from 10.

I'm all for selling Dembele but only when we get someone better.
 
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Neeraj

Neeraj

Senior Member
feggydinho said:
Dembele had the highest assist in the league last season and people rightly criticized his finishing then as he had 2 goals and used to sky his shots (fewer shots on target)

Now Dembele probably worked on his shooting, and currently ranks second stats-wise amongst our attackers with shot-on-target (Lewa is clearly the first), he also created the most chances, has the highest assists, and is our second-highest goal scorer in the league but you would think he has 0 goals and assists from the takes here criticizing his output.

Saw an interesting stat in their shots in the CL this season with Dembele having 5 SoT (shots-on-target) from 10 and Raphinha with 0 SoT from 10, but takes here make it look like Dembele is the one with 0 SoT from 10.

I'm all for selling Dembele but only when we get someone better.
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Two things to keep in mind here. One, Xavi has built the entire team's attack on pass the ball to Dembele and inshallah. It would be pretty surprising if he didnt' have a decent number of assists and shots. Second, I think we can all agree La Liga is piss poor right now. He will do enough against most teams in La Liga and be our man. That's also why I'm never in on the match threads asking for him to not play - I think we have nobody better and he has to play.

However, the point remains that against the better teams, we cannot trust him to be decisive. You will get maybe 1 chance against a top team and you need a player who will make the best use of that chance. Whether we score or not is a different discussion - but you have got to make the right decision. Dembele has shown in all his time here that he will always be inconsistent and never be the guy who we can rely on against top teams.

Couple that with his incredibly loose losses in possession and what you have is an asset that you can sell and replace with someone cheaper, and it wouldn't make a huge difference to our results. We'd still win most La Liga games, and we'd still probably lost against the top teams. If that replacement turns out to be better than we hope/expect, well, that's great. But we cannot be clinging on to a guy this expensive, both in terms of real as well as opportunity cost, with the misguided notion that we need to get another superstar before we can replace him because a) we cannot afford anyone and b) we don't need a superstar, just someone who has half a brain.
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
One of the reasons the quality of posts on this forum is so bad is that 95% or more of the posters are result merchants
They don't care to analyze games or think, they just judge of results and even following tables, goals and assists, without even watching games should be enough for them.

Dembele has been and still is a victim of that attitude
Comparison btw Vini and Dembele is another such case.
Had Dembele been playing for a finished article, a well-oiled team, the very people that are bashing on him day in day out, would be sucking his balls as they do with Vini nowadays.
Inversely, had Vini been playing for Barca of the last few years, same people would have torn him to pieces every matchday even harsher than they do with Dembele
 
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