Ousmane Dembélé

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Laplacian

Senior Member
To be fair with those players, Gotze ended up being diagnosed with a chronic condition and Manchester United bought Kagawa and later decided not to play him in his position. With Dembele it's similar, his strengths are speed, speed-dribbling, and spontaneity. His weaknesses are precision, consistency, and control. I believe our team reinforces the latter instead of the former, that's why he appears to struggle so much.

It sucks because I really want us to have a balanced and quick front three (left winger, striker, and right winger). I think he'd do well if our squad was more balanced, even in a possession based system.
 

Neeraj

Senior Member
Liverpool this, Liverpool that.

Can you imagine any other top club where Dembele could play?
I can't.

Yes, EV is bad.
But Dembele himself is a kind of player who can't adjust to lots of different styles.
He is like Busquets of attackers. Except that Busquets was at least good in that one particular system.
He could (in theory) play well only for a club like Dortmund or Liverpool who play crazy counterattacking football with lots of running and where there is tons of space on speedy counters.

So, basically, Dembele needs:
1. a specific club with a specific tactics, so 1-2 clubs in the world
2. that club needs to have EITHER Pep or Klopp who will mentor him, take his hand, guide his every step and fix 2000 tactical flaws in his game
3. on top of it, he needs to stay injury free for a longer time
4. and a coach needs to play him all the time in order to give a poor kid a confidence, because if you'll be subbing a poor kid, he will usually need like 6 Months to actually find his form again
So, everything needs to be perfect and you'll have to adjust your whole world in taking Dembele's hand and guiding him.

So, yes, EV, Rakitic and Suarez "ruined" Dembele's development at Barca, but a kid has like 2000 random flaws.

And yes, every player needs some guidance from a good coach.
But with this kid, it seems that you literally have to write every single move on board and talk to him 50 times during a match so that he could actually improve some things in his play.

:rolleyes:

In 4-5 years, I doubt that he will be playing even at Arsenal.
I really have no idea what his level will be one day.

Look, we get you don't like Dembele. I'm not even one for supporting him at all costs or claiming he's going to be some wonderkid. All some of us are saying is that some players develop well with or without a manager's hand holding and some don't. It's clear that Dembele falls in the latter category. You can't have it that easy in football - you don't always get ready made players. You have to sometimes spend time and money and effort on them, to get the rewards. We are giving examples of Pep and Klopp but there are plenty of other managers out there managing smaller teams like Ajax, Benfica, Porto ,etc. traditionally selling clubs whose managers tend to develop players well. I don't understand why it's so black and white with you.

If it were upto you, you'd have written off Messi when he arrived here, because of the hand holding he surely required when he was a kid, his medical problems, his injuries etc. Sure, Messi's talent was obviously way way higher than Debmele's, but it's the same logic. Some players need attention and some don't - and whatever inherent flaw you see, some of them can be fixed and some of them can't. But you'll never see the true potential with Valverde, and that's established as a fact now. How many young players have looked better under Valverde? Or is it that every single one of our new/young players are garbage?
 

Poor_Sunyol

In Lucho we trust!
He's had two years of attention. Valverde also has a proven track record with developing youngsters, so your post is quite confusing.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
If it were upto you, you'd have written off Messi when he arrived here, because of the hand holding he surely required when he was a kid, his medical problems, his injuries etc. Sure, Messi's talent was obviously way way higher than Debmele's, but it's the same logic. Some players need attention and some don't - and whatever inherent flaw you see, some of them can be fixed and some of them can't. But you'll never see the true potential with Valverde, and that's established as a fact now. How many young players have looked better under Valverde? Or is it that every single one of our new/young players are garbage?

I was excited about Messi after his 15 minutes with a first team.
With Dembele, I wasn't excited in any moment and I had 10 questions in my head after only 90 minutes of him playing.

About young players, again, EV is bad, but it is not far from the truth that all of our youngsters are very, very average (I won't say bad).
Malcom, we'll see whether he will ever come even close to a Uefa cup level in Top3 leagues.
In his case, EV was not worng.
Regarding Dembele, if he is as dumb and as flawed as some of us think, EV will not be wrong again.
Alena, a player who will probably end as weaker than Roberto. Not Ev's fault again.
Semedo? A guy who can't make a simple pass around the box?

Name one young player who actually had potential and not 100s of deadly flaws whom EV has ruined.
The way more likely scenario is that our transfers and youngsters in the last 3-4 years are the worst bunch since 2000 and Gaspart.

Were coaches from early 2000's guilty because Rochemback, Saviola, Geovanni Deiberson, Christanval, Gerard Lopez and others failed?
Or they were just a bunch of horrible overpriced transfers where none of them wasn't ever a starter in any midtable club after Barca?

Have Serra Ferrer, Rexach and Antic ruined Saviola and Gerard Lopez, or they were just a crap and Dembeles and Malcoms from that era?
** Btw, those two were 40-50M Euros signings in early 2000's, when the world record was 70-ish M for Zidane.
When you add inflation of prices and everything regarding a current era, Saviola, Gerard and Geovanni would be all 100-120M signings in a current era.
So, Dembeles from 2000's.

A life of a fan will be easier if you remember a golden rule:
Statistically:
1. 66% of all players who sign for Barca will turn to be not good enough, bad fits or they won't be able to adapt for personal mental reasons
2. 75% of all young players (aged 21-23) who will sign for Barca will fail
3. 90% of players younger than 22, who come directly to Barca from a smaller club=will fail
4. 95% of all, even the best La Masia talents=will fail

When you look at those numbers (stats from the last 30 years of our transfers), which one is more likely?
1. Dembele, Malcom, Alena, Puig are insane talents ruined by a crappy EV?
2. or, just a regular year in Barca's history where roughly 75-80% new players/signings/kids will fail since they are just not good enough for our level?
= where usually 1 out of 4 or 1 out of 5 new hopes will turn into "something"

Forget about Pep's era.
That was the only era in our history where we didn't need to buy new players all the time because we were lucky with Xavi, Iniesta, Busi.
And due to that fact, we avoided 20 horrible transfers, which we would surely do.
Xavi, Iniesta and soon Busi are gone, and we are back to a good old Barca with 20-25% efficiency of ALL transfers.
 
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Gnidrologist

Senior Member
Every new player turns into utter crap or has at least been a bit disappointing under Valdolt. Now it's probably Griezman's and De Jongs turn to appear not really what we expected, right? No one seems to be able to integrate into these sophisticated tactical schemes, full of dynamism and hardship.
 

Riordon

New member
Same player at Dortmund with a bit more confidence. I watched Dortmund that season. Back then I thought what a player, he is just 19 years old and his weakness will soon disappear. Three years later same weaknesses.

Having Valverde as a coach doesn’t help. What worries me is his lack of understanding of the game, can’t understand why he stand there waiting for the ball all the time, make dangerous runs with your pace
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
I would confidently claim that Neymar was, and is, better than Dembele at every single thing that is relative to football.

Dembele's quicker in top speed and acceleration. Dembele's two footedness is also better, though I think Neymar's technique on either foot bests Dembele's.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Man I love these reliable and verifiable statistics.

I posted every single transfer in the last 30 years a few months ago and pulled those stats.

Also, a few Months ago, I posted 100+ La Masia kids who played 2 or more matches for Barca since 2000' and their success rate.

So, you can take my numbers from above as quite accurate since they are numbers from our club.

Then, you won't hold breath that much for Alena, Puig, Oriol, Wague and similar.

Since, in majority of cases, only 1 out of each 4-5 kids will be here in 2-3 years.

NOT because of EV.
But because of our 30 years history of 100s of similar cases.
 

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
How many players Valverde developed during his time with Barca? I think it's a fair question. He can't develop anything.

We mostly see good players regress under his coaching.
 

JohnN

Senior Member
Dembele's quicker in top speed and acceleration. Dembele's two footedness is also better, though I think Neymar's technique on either foot bests Dembele's.

Dembele is demonstrably faster at top speed. But it's not like Neymar is slow. Either way, Dembele edges this one. Though, I would classify their difference in top speed negligible as far as effectiveness is concerned.

Indeed the two footedness thing would be relevant if he could use his feet better than Neymar does. At this point, it's just like saying he is taller. Doesn't amount to anything really.

This shouldn't be used against dembele though. Neymar was a generational talent. Dembele was a young prospect.
 

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
Dembele is demonstrably faster at top speed. But it's not like Neymar is slow. Either way, Dembele edges this one. Though, I would classify their difference in top speed negligible as far as effectiveness is concerned.

Indeed the two footedness thing would be relevant if he could use his feet better than Neymar does. At this point, it's just like saying he is taller. Doesn't amount to anything really.

This shouldn't be used against dembele though. Neymar was a generational talent. Dembele was a young prospect.

Neymar is harder worker and better defensively or at least used to be.

True. He can play with two foot but it doesn't make him much better.
 
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