Ousmane Dembele

[Birdy]

This guy frothing about Xavi in yet another thread

Insane.

He is an example of bad imposition of a coach's authority

Accept it, and stop excusing him for all his wrongdoings here

 

[mc_lovin]

What a fucking bum that dude is.

 

[Maradona37]

THIS IS HOW YOU TREAT PLAYERS
You don't offer them dinner or give them days off if they win, like our clown Xavi was doing here
It's their JOB to train, it's their JOB to play, it's their JOB to do what the coach asks without complain.

They have been pampered too much by people like Xavi, (or even worse yesmen like Varvede with the Amigos), who cave to player power
My total respect to Enrique, who is a REAL coach, and shows EVERYONE how it needs to be done

Not having a go, but I really don't get how you say this yet defend Ten Hag, who (as one example) plays Rashford most games despite Rashford being unprofessional as fuck on and off the pitch i.e. his disciplinary issues off the pitch with going out before games, and refusing to put in any effort in defence on it.

You're talking about managers pampering players, when Man United have one of the most toxic set of players going, that ten Hag tolerates (other than Ronaldo).

I think you should be consistent in your criticism. If you are gonna slag off Xavi for that (and I am not even saying you're wrong) you should do the same with coaches you rate when they do similar.

 

[companyofcules]

🥂

 

[Windhook]

Reading details, he's out of the squad for an argument with Lucho after a 82 minute substitution which Dembele reacted badly after the game. Lucho denies this is the reason and we'll never know.

Dembele most likely crossed the line in the locker room. He went to PSG with the thought he'd be succesful and untouchable, even more this season with Mbappe gone. Dumb to think you can question the authority of a manager, especially a character like Lucho.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

If we didn't get rid of him, we might not have discovered Yamal.

 

[Horatio]

Reading details, he's out of the squad for an argument with Lucho after a 82 minute substitution which Dembele reacted badly after the game. Lucho denies this is the reason and we'll never know.

Dembele most likely crossed the line in the locker room. He went to PSG with the thought he'd be succesful and untouchable, even more this season with Mbappe gone. Dumb to think you can question the authority of a manager, especially a character like Lucho.

Didn’t EA SPORTS FC 25 come out recently?

 

[draconifire]

Decades of dominance on the BENCH.

 

[Birdy]

Not having a go, but I really don't get how you say this yet defend Ten Hag, who (as one example) plays Rashford most games despite Rashford being unprofessional as fuck on and off the pitch i.e. his disciplinary issues off the pitch with going out before games, and refusing to put in any effort in defence on it.

You're talking about managers pampering players, when Man United have one of the most toxic set of players going, that ten Hag tolerates (other than Ronaldo).

I think you should be consistent in your criticism. If you are gonna slag off Xavi for that (and I am not even saying you're wrong) you should do the same with coaches you rate when they do similar.

Man you have a serious thing with UTD and ETH...

ETH is not a pamperer. On the contrary, he might be too far on the other end: too stubborn to handle situations with players unless they accept he is the boss

Ronaldo was kicked practically out of the team off to Saudi Arabia because he didn't accept taking orders from ETH. ETH didn't back off because 'it was Ronaldo' or so.
ETH had a public beef with Sancho precisely because he doesn't cave to his authority, and he refused to apologize.
Sancho never played for UTD since then
When Rashford had an argument with ETH, he was later forced to apologize to be included again in the squad
These are facts
I assume you know them already. If not, look them up

 

[Maradona37]

Man you have a serious thing with UTD and ETH...

ETH is not a pamperer. On the contrary, he might be too far on the other end: too stubborn to handle situations with players unless they accept he is the boss

Ronaldo was kicked practically out of the team off to Saudi Arabia because he didn't accept taking orders from ETH. ETH didn't back off because 'it was Ronaldo' or so.
ETH had a public beef with Sancho precisely because he doesn't cave to his authority, and he refused to apologize.
Sancho never played for UTD since then
When Rashford had an argument with ETH, he was later forced to apologize to be included again in the squad

No, it isn't that. I would say the same if Slot, Pep, Enrique, Ancelotti - anyone - was letting players do what they like. In fact some of them have. It's the hypocrisy. I don't actually dislike Ten Hag as a person - I consider him a poor coach but he's probably a decent guy. I hate United as a club, yes.

I'm just saying that that's true of most/all coaches - they're authoritarian with some and hand round the shoulder with others. Ronaldo was the right decision, but I feel ETH handled the Sancho situation pretty badly.

It's not just about that with Rashford. He continues to relent to Rashford and Fernandes's indulgences on the pitch too. Fernandes's behaviour is abysmal and Rashford hardly puts any effort in (not that I rate him much in talent anyway). Yet he continues to give them free reign and play them all the time. This is likely because in his mind they're his best chance of winning, but the same goes for Xavi when he was being too nicey nice with his players.

Anyway my point is that ETH - while stubborn and authoritative sometimes - turns very soft when it is players he actually rates (ie Fernandes and Rashford, as opposed to Sancho and old man Ronaldo). He gives free reign to players he rates and discards those who are of no use to him. Is this different to what Xavi or any other coach does?

 

[Maradona37]

Anyway not that bothered really mate - having a liking for a football manager and showing some bias towards him is wayyyyy down the list of crimes or mistakes in this world. Just think it's interesting that you still stand by Ten Hag despite how bad it's been for United for so long under him.

What I will say mate, is that - while I don't rate Ten Hag much - most of these players range from rubbish to average, and he likely knows it. hence him playing very basic football. So I think their fans putting all the blame on him as if these guys are gonna turn into prime R9 when someone else comes in is very mistaken. They're in for a very rude awakening under the next coach.

 

[Birdy]

No, it isn't that. I would say the same if Slot, Pep, Enrique, Ancelotti - anyone - was letting players do what they like. In fact some of them have. It's the hypocrisy. I don't actually dislike Ten Hag as a person - I consider him a poor coach but he's probably a decent guy. I hate United as a club, yes.

I'm just saying that that's true of most/all coaches - they're authoritarian with some and hand round the shoulder with others. Ronaldo was the right decision, but I feel ETH handled the Sancho situation pretty badly.

It's not just about that with Rashford. He continues to relent to Rashford and Fernandes's indulgences on the pitch too. Fernandes's behaviour is abysmal and Rashford hardly puts any effort in (not that I rate him much in talent anyway). Yet he continues to give them free reign and play them all the time. This is likely because in his mind they're his best chance of winning, but the same goes for Xavi when he was being too nicey nice with his players.

Anyway my point is that ETH - while stubborn and authoritative sometimes - turns very soft when it is players he actually rates (ie Fernandes and Rashford, as opposed to Sancho and old man Ronaldo). He gives free reign to players he rates and discards those who are of no use to him. Is this different to what Xavi or any other coach does?

In terms of discipline and taking his orders, I don't think he gives a free reign to anyone
Pitch is a different story
Letting x player do less defensive work is a tactical choice (which I obviously don't agree with)

I don't know about Rashford, but saw Fernandez do a lot of pressing against Spurs before the red card

 

[Maradona37]

In terms of discipline and taking his orders, I don't think he gives a free reign to anyone
Pitch is a different story
Letting x player do less defensive work is a tactical choice (which I obviously don't agree with)

I don't know about Rashford, but saw Fernandez do a lot of pressing against Spurs before the red card

Fair enough, much of my point is about on the pitch stuff.

Fernandes really runs around like a headless chicken though, his press isn't coordinated with the rest. I am not really questioning his work-rate anyway, rather his moaning at team-mates and the ref. Yeah a lot of players do that though.

Anyway, good discussion. I was simply saying that most coaches (Xavi, Ten Hag, whoever) will show plenty of leeway to players when they think those players can bring them success. And equally, they will throw by the wayside players they don't feel can contribute. I think that's a fair assessment. I am not even saying they're wrong to do that (in a football capacity). It's just that managers tailor their behaviour based on a certain players' needs and personalities. It was probably Ferguson's biggest selling point as a manager.

 

[Gazzznigga]

THIS IS HOW YOU TREAT PLAYERS
You don't offer them dinner or give them days off if they win, like our clown Xavi was doing here
It's their JOB to train, it's their JOB to play, it's their JOB to do what the coach asks without complain.

They have been pampered too much by people like Xavi, (or even worse yesmen like Varvede with the Amigos), who cave to player power
My total respect to Enrique, who is a REAL coach, and shows EVERYONE how it needs to be done

It was obvious from day 1 that Xavi was not a coach good enough for a segunda side. He rode on catalan sentiments and some old boy history to that job....that is not a debate.

 

[serghei]

Anyway not that bothered really mate - having a liking for a football manager and showing some bias towards him is wayyyyy down the list of crimes or mistakes in this world. Just think it's interesting that you still stand by Ten Hag despite how bad it's been for United for so long under him.

What I will say mate, is that - while I don't rate Ten Hag much - most of these players range from rubbish to average, and he likely knows it. hence him playing very basic football. So I think their fans putting all the blame on him as if these guys are gonna turn into prime R9 when someone else comes in is very mistaken. They're in for a very rude awakening under the next coach.

United made a very big mistake trusting ETH with rebuilding their team. Spent a fortune and they are worse in the league than during Ole. One of those cases where a good B team manager fails badly when making the step to a higher tier club.

It was a good decision to appoint him, but the early signs had red flags all over them. Instead of sacking him and cutting their losses early, they invested massive massive sums backing a manager with a seriously questionable ability to build a well-functioning side.