El Gato
Villarato!
Doesn't get better for confirmation bias than that first sentence. Don't know why overinterpreting of one observation (Alcacer being good, but not good enough to bench MSN) comes so easy to people.
Paco Alcácer
- Thread starter Irish_Cules
- Start date
Doesn't get better for confirmation bias than that first sentence. Don't know why overinterpreting of one observation (Alcacer being good, but not good enough to bench MSN) comes so easy to people.
serghei
Senior Member
Lol, players Barca and Madrid deem as not good enough to play at their club are instant stars at other top clubs, like Arsenal, PSG, Bayern. This only happens because Barca and Madrid are so stacked with talent that even the players they sell or get rid of are top quality. The reason why they don't play at Barca/Madrid is only because these teams have even higher caliber players on their position.
So, unless you have a quality manager able to rotate wisely, there's no way Alcacer would've played at Barcelona considering his competition is Suarez a player who bags 30+ goals a season, frequently scoring in clasicos or against the best teams in the league.
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El Gato
Villarato!
Absolutely nothing to do with this case of one player who is a striker going through spells all the time in his career. His all-time highest tally is 13 goals with 2-3 month periods of nothing in between 2-3 month periods of scoring every 1 or 2 games. Zero. No correlation at all man. Not to say he's not going to continue. But jesus you have a tendency to reach...
The notion of Barca & Madrid being packed full of top-star talented benchwarmers is such a generalisation and completely flawed it's not really worth elaborating on. The Alexis', the Ozils and Di Marias that you're probably staring at with googly eyes trying to make a case for RM-Barca being packed with talent.. these guys are totally isolated cases that are few and far between + they were usually bought to be starters or would be good enough to compete in their positions without a doubt. Morata, Jese, Illarramendi, Deulofeu, Afellay, Song, Tello, JdS, Sergi Samper, Bartra, Montoya.. the list of bang average-to-good players (whose ability ceiling is CL group stage/EL) forming 80% of the exports of both teams goes on and on.
serghei
Senior Member
Well, tell me of isolated cases of bench players from Bayern, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, PSG, Juventus, fuck it, any bench player signed from any top team that got to start at Barcelona and Madrid. The squads of Barcelona and Madrid are in such a high quality state, that it's impossible for a bench player somewhere else to start at Barca/Madrid. It can't happen because if they would be able to start for Barcelona and Madrid they would start everywhere else too.
Give me a recent case of a player Real Madrid signed from Bayern's bench to start for them. Lol, Madrid only signed from Bayern one of their most important players, Kroos. And if they sign another it will be a player form their first 11 they don't want to lose. Madrid signed from Chelsea Curtois, one of their best players. If they sign another one it will be Hazard. That's the profile of players they sign. Barcelona didn't sign Milner from Liverpool. They signed Coutinho, their best player at the time. A few years ago they, again, signed Suarez, by far their best player.
Only Barcelona and Madrid have bench players or players they don't want anymore that start in these types of teams. Lol of course they're exceptions, but other teams never have even these exception cases.
At Barcelona and Madrid only the best prospects start, and the best players on their positions. Players with world class ability, World Cup winners, players who lead their national team, players who have super high numbers.
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El Gato
Villarato!
What exceptions? The 40 odd players that were prospects who have gone through Barca and Madrid and ended up being pretty decent and nothing more? They're the exceptions? Somehow out of thin air you've made up this thing that every average-to-good bench player akin to Alcacer becomes a top-star abroad. Lol. This is your own words:
Absolute nonsense. Literally judging a player's quality after a 5 GAME scoring run. Nothing he's not done before. Yet somehow this now reaffirms your imaginary theories.
Here's how this can go:
1) He can keep scoring and end up having 25-30 goals this season. Fair enough, well played. Jamie Vardy did it too (Edit: correction, he scored 24 in 15/16, like a top striker that he is).
2) He can have a blip in form and score 5-10 goals in the next 5 months. Yup, normal, about right for what he's done before and what nearly every striker of his type does.
3) He can keep scoring, get 25-30 and make it a regular thing for years to come. That would make him a top striker.
But somehow he's a top striker already just to further some little presupposition that "Yeah we have a great squad! Damn you Lucho, damn you Valverde!"
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serghei
Senior Member
What exceptions? The 40 odd players that were prospects who have gone through Barca and Madrid and ended up being pretty decent and nothing more? They're the exceptions? Somehow out of thin air you've made up this thing that every average-to-good bench player akin to Alcacer becomes a top-star abroad. Lol. This is your own words:
Absolute nonsense. Literally judging a player's quality after a 2 month relatively high scoring run. Nothing he's not done before. Yet somehow this now reaffirms your imaginary theories.
Here's how this can go:
1) He can keep scoring and end up having 25-30 goals this season. Fair enough, well played. Jamie Vardy did it too.
2) He can have a blip in form and score 5-10 goals in the next 5 months. Yup, normal, about right for what he's done before and what nearly every striker of his type does.
3) He can keep scoring, get 25-30 and make it a regular thing for years to come. That would make him a top striker.
But somehow he's a top striker already just to further some little presupposition that "Yeah we have a great squad! Damn you Lucho, damn you Valverde!"
He is a top striker. Don't know how you keep applying the same harsh measurements with players from Barcelona in particular, but then go on and you big up Milner and Henderson until they're about to explode because of how much thin air you pump in them.
Alcacer is not a top player, although he clearly is, but Henderson is not far off Busquets. Give me a fucking break. What we need at Barcelona is to figure out why a 1bn worth of squad plays like shit for 3 years running in CL. There are factors in the team, from management, board, even to players, who makes them show up at important games in a completely 'I don't give a fuck' manner, carrying with them shitty tactics and beach soccer intensity.That's what we need to figure out, and my explanation is surely more plausible than your theory that somehow our team is not good enough anymore. A not good enough team who sort of spanks Madrid on Bernabeu almost every La Liga season, spanks Juventus 3-0 and ends up losing 3-0 to Roma.
There is quality and there are performances. When performances don't match the quality you need to look for reasons in the right area, and that area is almost all the time to be found in different layers of management, from board, to technical staff, to manager. If Pavarotti started in his prime to sing like crap at a concert, they would try to find out if he's sick or something. They wouldn't say he's not a great tenor anymore because of some half-baked theories.
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serghei
Senior Member
If you knew what you're talking about you'd know he was a top player since Valencia.
El Gato
Villarato!
Top player since Valencia who was stifled by managers who couldn't rotate properly = your run-of-the-mill decent streaky forward. Wonder where on that broad spectrum of your top players are the likes of Higuain if Paco is called 'top' after 3 seasons of virtual irrelevance
5 games. Top player. #neverforget
5 games. Top player. #neverforget
Messigician
Senior Member
Real Madrid could use someone like him lmao
El Trencaxarxes
Member
I would like to point out, that even with extremely limited time on the pitch only Messi, Suárez, Neymar and Rakitic were involved in more goals than Paco during his two seasons with us. He was involved in 0.87 goals per 90 minutes of football in those two seasons. If that's not a stellar record, I don't know what is. Especially when you consider how sporadic his appearances last season were.
El Trencaxarxes
Member
[youtube]ed7PYH9aavU[/youtube]
Remember that? I think the period leading up to and following that game perfectly captures Paco's time with us - especially so under Valverde.
In the five matches leading up to the Sevilla game, Paco played a total of 97 minutes with 90 of them coming in the Copa del Rey match against Murcia, in which he scored.
Then comes the Sevilla game. Paco plays absolutely brilliantly, scoring twice and playing his heart out in an unaccustomed position.
Next match against Leganés he starts again, not doing too great but we are up 2-0 when he is substituted in the 82nd minute. What comes next? Back to the bench. In our next four games, he starts once, once again against Murcia in the Copa del Rey.
Paco nearly didn't get any actual chances last season, yet whenever he played he usually did a very respectable job and were far more dangerous than someone like Deulofeu, who incredibly only played half an hour less than Paco despite leaving in January. Paco wasn't treated very well by Valverde, and I've thought it was a mistake to favour Munir over Paco right from the get-go, voicing my displeasure several times on other boards.
Remember that? I think the period leading up to and following that game perfectly captures Paco's time with us - especially so under Valverde.
In the five matches leading up to the Sevilla game, Paco played a total of 97 minutes with 90 of them coming in the Copa del Rey match against Murcia, in which he scored.
Then comes the Sevilla game. Paco plays absolutely brilliantly, scoring twice and playing his heart out in an unaccustomed position.
Next match against Leganés he starts again, not doing too great but we are up 2-0 when he is substituted in the 82nd minute. What comes next? Back to the bench. In our next four games, he starts once, once again against Murcia in the Copa del Rey.
Paco nearly didn't get any actual chances last season, yet whenever he played he usually did a very respectable job and were far more dangerous than someone like Deulofeu, who incredibly only played half an hour less than Paco despite leaving in January. Paco wasn't treated very well by Valverde, and I've thought it was a mistake to favour Munir over Paco right from the get-go, voicing my displeasure several times on other boards.
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