Pep Guardiola

[KingLeo10]

Wolfe's composition summed up. Everyone hates the best (only when it's Barca and not Klopp or ZZ), and everyone loves a good underdog.

FTFY.

 

[serghei]

FTFY.

You can actually make an iron solid case that envy of Barca and Pep is what woke up the sleeping giant who was Madrid circa 2009. You just can't be shit and a non-factor while the greatest team is putting up masterpiece shows.

That got the wheels turning at record speed for Madrid.

 

[henias]

[MENTION=5226]El Gato[/MENTION] That write-up of yours made him seem like a person totally void of emotions and passion for the game. It's almost like its criminal wanting to play with the ball in a game of football.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Can’t take your analysis seriously [MENTION=5226]El Gato[/MENTION] It is your opinion, but can’t help but think it’s “slightly” biased as you’ve on the receiving end of Pep’s sides a lot.

It’s a bit like when cross and inshallah gets slated on here, comes more from a place of bitterness imo. Its typical and could be classed as boring but it fucking worked for Zidane.

 

[BarcaOG]

Mate the model is fucking terrible to watch at most levels and often even when executed by City.
That is for anyone who isn't a control freak that expects everyone to play like an surgeon without making a single bad shot, pass, dribble or whatever else.
Until lately even City itself was a mostly shite watch for a neutral spectator and ever became appreciated only when they are so ruthlessly good at killing competition at any point in a game that you end up admiring how easily they execute their fundamentally evil scheme.
Why do you think neutrals have way more fun watching Liverpool than City?

Scoring doesn't make anything any better anymore. No surprise football went to very different popularity heights when Brazillians and French were killing it in the noughties doing their samba with the ball which didn't almost eliminate the possibility of them ever losing a stretch of games. And decade later people only pay to see it because they've been told 8-0 vs Almeria was so impressive that you're supposed to watch and be in awe.

Like said, most people won't empathize with Pep's vision. Because it's just inhuman really. It strives for perfection and tries to teach it. But its fruits are very different.

How come Mou, the quintessential anti-pep, doesn't offer 'entertaining' football? Did you see his late Chelsea, his Spurs and definitely his United sides? They were god AWFUL to watch. if pep=boring and mou=anti pep why is mou=even more boring than pep?

 

[El Gato]

Can?t take your analysis seriously [MENTION=5226]El Gato[/MENTION] It is your opinion, but can?t help but think it?s ?slightly? biased as you?ve on the receiving end of Pep?s sides a lot.

Lol did I ever hide away my dislike for Pep? I don't pretend to not like the guy. Never have.
Pretty sure analysis is fairly on point as it doesn't remove objective merits. Just interprets the side effects and motivations for employing the model. Jammy would have you believe I said Pep Barca side wasn't objectively the best ball moving side in the world at the time. Totally missed the point.

Couldn't ever like a guy like Pep really. Always seemed such an empty person driven by personal projects to no end.
Just don't see why Cules stop at the analysis at the level of trophy cabinet rather than how much bad influence his approach to structure changed football to be more boring (as evidenced by dwindling viewership everywhere that doesn't have the amount of stars prepared to execute the 'dominating' style he pioneered), less spontaneous and more of a subject for statistical appreciation than emotional attachment.

It?s a bit like when cross and inshallah gets slated on here, comes more from a place of bitterness imo. Its typical and could be classed as boring but it fucking worked for Zidane.

Course it did. It better do when you have a guy with the movement of Ronaldo.

[MENTION=5226]El Gato[/MENTION] That write-up of yours made him seem like a person totally void of emotions and passion for the game. It's almost like its criminal wanting to play with the ball in a game of football.

Of course he isn't void of them.
Pep's a very happy man when his players do exactly what he tells them to. Definitely by some distance the most exasperated coach when they don't or when emotions get in the way of executing the model. Contrast with Zidane who just a week ago said 'not winning is not the end of the world' - and this coming from a man who achieved as much as he did.

Pep has always been an obsessed SOB who couldn't deal with insubordination either.

Klopp fucked up his players, 2 years of crazy running and you get players that are dead tired. They shoot horses, don't they? Now he needs 5-6 new star players to make up for his "mastermind" tactics. Liverpool are on the decline with the current squad and they aren't getting any younger.

Zidane basically reaped Carlo Ancelotti's seeds, and still is. Varane, Ramos, Carvajal, Casemiro, Modric, Isco, Benzema are all players from pre-Zidane era. Sure he's among the greatest motivators in football, but let's talk about his managerial abilities once a rebuilding process starts at Real Madrid. If not fired, of course.

Your hatred for Guardiola is probably shared among most Real Madrid, Chelsea, Man United and Liverpool fans, but I get a lot of neutral feedback from friends and colleagues that prefer watching Guardiola managed teams on the weekends. I guess some people love entertaining football with more goals from creative possessional football, not just corners and penalties.

No he didn't reap Ancelotti seeds nearly as made out. Early Zidane was about meritocracy and changing formations to make key players fit exactly where the team needed despite a few (Bale) being completely counterproductive. First coach to play flat 4-4-2 since some scrubs from pre-Schuster era.

Nor is Liverpool dead at all. Just missed defensive leaders.

 

[Morten]

Lol did I ever hide away my dislike for Pep? I don't pretend to not like the guy. Never have.
Pretty sure analysis is fairly on point as it doesn't remove objective merits. Just interprets the side effects and motivations for employing the model. Jammy would have you believe I said Pep Barca side wasn't objectively the best ball moving side in the world at the time. Totally missed the point.

Couldn't ever like a guy like Pep really. Always seemed such an empty person driven by personal projects to no end.



Course it did. It better do when you have a guy with the movement of Ronaldo.



Of course he isn't void of them.
Pep's a very happy man when his players do exactly what he tells them to. Definitely by some distance the most exasperated coach when they don't or when emotions get in the way of executing the model. Contrast with Zidane who just a week ago said 'not winning is not the end of the world' - and this coming from a man who achieved as much as he did.

Pep has always been an obsessed SOB who couldn't deal with insubordination either.



No he didn't reap Ancelotti seeds nearly as made out. Early Zidane was about meritocracy and changing formations to make key players fit exactly where the team needed despite a few (Bale) being completely counterproductive. First coach to play flat 4-4-2 since some scrubs from pre-Schuster era.

Nor is Liverpool dead at all. Just missed defensive leaders.

More than just that, Salah is the only one scoring basically, Mane has been awful, and Firmino is, well, Firmino.
They need to upgrade their attack.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

More than just that, Salah is the only one scoring basically, Mane has been awful, and Firmino is, well, Firmino.
They need to upgrade their attack.

Trueeee, how bad has Mane become. Withhout Salah Liverpool would be in the middle/end of the PL table

 

[FCBarca]

Cruyff and Michels were true visionaries. Cruyff took a lot from Michels.

But you could arguably make the same argument for them. Ajax and Barcelona were big clubs and they won with big clubs. They didn't really coach smaller teams.

That's precisely why it is important to value the work Guardiola did from '07-'08 with a 4th division B team. He jumped in, few resources with no discernible potential and won them the league & promotion

I doubt very much any coach in our lifetime can best Pep's resume, from ball boy to champion at every level

 

[Birdy]

[MENTION=5226]El Gato[/MENTION]

Sophisticated take, but full of holes and points that are out and out wrong.
For instance

1) Mou never parked the bus to counter Pep's Barca.
He was always parking the bus, he was parking it at Porto, parking at Chelsea, at Inter, and everywhere he coached.
He liked parking it, even when football changed he did not really understand it that's why he is finished now

Only difference is that in the past, he was doing that really well. His teams were biting. Porto, Chelsea, Inter were both robust, solid, and dangerous as fuck.
Nothing to do with Pep and his revolution really, apart from giving Mou more excuses why he sat the team back.

2) Klopp did not do what you say he did.
Klopp is a founding father of modern football as much as Pep is.
Not so much of the astute tactician that will change the formation midway in the game to win it.
But, he invented a new football philosophy, the genenpressing, and that was a direct response to Pep's revolution.
You can say Pep started the revolution and Klopp came up with a counter-revolution to contain it. His head-head record against Pep is awesome. He is the only manager out there that got the best of Pep for so many years.

And that whole thing benefited football contrary to what you claim.
And the response to Pep's football is not the 'park the bus' tactic.
Because that's there since Helenio Herrera, and there is nothing new about it.
The response to Pep's football was Klopp's football.

The sport always progresses by revolutions, and adjustments to it.

3) Being a control freak is a characteristic you would find in most world-class coaches of the present and the past.
And it's expected. The best coaches pay extreme attention to detail and that means most likely you are talking about a control freak.

But why should it be painted with these negative colours?

The whole rhetoric of mechanization and dehumanization seems way out of proportion here.
The sport is collective. Every XI is an organism that shall be able to function as a unit, and that involves football 'automation' that is the result of planning (coaching) and practicing (training)

4) Glorifying football before Pep will not cut it.
Games where one team would compete the other about who would park the stronger bus, luck and randomness playing even more prominent role than today, referee mistakes being more lethal as they could not be overturned by the performance of the team.

Watch some Liverpool-Chelsea CL semis from that decade now and you would wanna kill yourself softly.
Nah, Pep did the opposite from what you say: he saved football from boredom

 

[El Gato]

1) Mou never parked the bus to counter Pep's Barca.
He was always parking the bus, he was parking it at Porto, parking at Chelsea, at Inter, and everywhere he coached.
He liked parking it, even when football changed he did not really understand it that's why he is finished now

No he wasn't.
Watch some games.

the genenpressing, and that was a direct response to Pep's revolution.

Yes. Everything's in response to what Pep did. In a different league where nobody even played Pep way.
Lol

3) Being a control freak is a characteristic you would find in most world-class coaches of the present and the past.
And it's expected. The best coaches pay extreme attention to detail and that means most likely you are talking about a control freak.

No it isn't.

Watch some Liverpool-Chelsea CL semis from that decade now and you would wanna kill yourself softly.

This example

My god. serghei level response

 

[Birdy]

I had watched a lot of Mourinho back in the day.

But, it's not up for debate really. The numbers are there mate.
He broke all defensive records with Chelsea.
He has admitted it in his interviews. His first concern is to not concede. He prefers not having the ball, as it becomes more dangerous to make a mistake and concede then.

If you don't know that, google it and you will find.
But I think you know, but you wanna twist things so much to fit your narrative.

As for the rest, 0 serious countering of my points

 

[El Gato]

Naww Birdy wants to be taken seriously. Bless

Honestly, life's too short.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Valenti Guardiola [Pep’s father] told @SuperDeporRadio, regarding a Pep Guardiola return: “Now, to return to Barcelona as a coach or as a person who‘d give advice is something that I do not rule out..” #FCB


Let’s hope.

 

[Jadentheman]

I believe he'll want to manage a club in Italy, and maybe do something in the U.S or something like that, before returning to Barcelona for a different role, not involved directly with the team.

I can't see him managing an MLS side, he's too good for that. If it's the US national team, I be open just to see that clashing he'll have with US Soccer.

I can see him going to Milan or Juventus. I could also see him becoming a comentator for sports and just shouting his opinions. He also might write another book about his experiences at Bayern and Man City.