Probably not. But you could make the case because he has has won the biggest prize in club football more than another manager. On the flip side he has underachieved domestically. Guardiola will probably end up with more league title wins than any other manager so if he match that European record then there would be no debate.
Pep Guardiola
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
serghei
Senior Member
CL is not worth the same (obviously the cup itself is the same) if you give up on the league and rest players specially for it. That should be clear to anyone. It's much harder to go all the way on two fronts simultaneously, it takes much more from a squad in every single way frankly.
Madrid is a CL specialist and best club overall easily, no questions here, but few of their teams qualify in discussions about best sides ever, because when they win CL they rarely match that with league consistency.
Not a single Madrid team I've seen gave me the impression that they are the best in Spain and in Europe simultaneously in a very clear way. 2017 and 2012 teams came the closest.
Madrid is a CL specialist and best club overall easily, no questions here, but few of their teams qualify in discussions about best sides ever, because when they win CL they rarely match that with league consistency.
Not a single Madrid team I've seen gave me the impression that they are the best in Spain and in Europe simultaneously in a very clear way. 2017 and 2012 teams came the closest.
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serghei
Senior Member
It's the same old discussion. Quality over quantity.
Madrid will win 6 CLs out of 15, and all 6 are gonna be won narrowly. Barca are gonna win maybe 2 out of 15, 3 times less, but in those 2 they are gonna stomp everything in sight and set records.
Overall, realistically, winning more is more valuable for most people, and this is why Madrid are, justifiably, the greatest. But no club can have everything. Each elite club is special in their own way imo, for very different reasons.
Madrid will win 6 CLs out of 15, and all 6 are gonna be won narrowly. Barca are gonna win maybe 2 out of 15, 3 times less, but in those 2 they are gonna stomp everything in sight and set records.
Overall, realistically, winning more is more valuable for most people, and this is why Madrid are, justifiably, the greatest. But no club can have everything. Each elite club is special in their own way imo, for very different reasons.
Horatio
You're welcome
Whackest discussion to have ever existed if you ask me. Give me Madrid’s 14 CL’s over Barca’s 5 any time of the day. Don’t care how “pretty” Barca’s runs were.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Serghei has a point. I still would take RM's trophy cabinet, but there is an argument to be made in that each of our CL winning sides at least won a European double, and 2 times a treble lol. Plus our domestic success counts more than someone like Bayern or Juve's...because RM.
It's like Ajax. When they were dominant, they destroyed everything in their path (CL, league, league cups). Not a coincidence that Barca and Ajax are of this mould...
It's like Ajax. When they were dominant, they destroyed everything in their path (CL, league, league cups). Not a coincidence that Barca and Ajax are of this mould...
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Also, Pep undisputed GOAT hype train is a bit premature. This will be his 1st CL in 11 years without Messi, Xavi, Iniesta. This trio has both won a treble and a WC/Euros without him as their manager. So they're made men outside of Pep's managing.
Let him win it first, before we start putting him ahead of the all-timers he had at his disposal.
Let him win it first, before we start putting him ahead of the all-timers he had at his disposal.
serghei
Senior Member
True.
It's also a distinction between club, as an institution, vs team, as a moment in time. People wrongly use these terms loosely, and often interchangeably without making a distinction between the two.
Madrid are the greatest club. But as far as the greatest team, none of their teams got very close to the status of Pep's Barca, since I started followng the game closely, about 20-25 years ago or so.
Barca as a club are rather dreamy, romantical, often naive. But it's this type of setup that allows them to sometimes, although rarely, hit an absolute home run. Madrid are the opposite, they don't really care how victory is achieved. A completely style-less team, but perfectly moldable and reactive. Like a chameleon. They will dominate the weak and inexperienced, and defend vs the strong and bite on the counter.
But make no mistake, at the end of the day, winning more is the most important, no matter how special your wins are.
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Iniesta Ultra
Senior Member
pot kettle burnt black jajajajjaja
serghei
Senior Member
Lol, I'm not the one dreaming about big CL success around here, considering our financial situation and our squad problems.
And the fact that our best players are either mega injury-prone or barely got their driver's licence.
Horatio
You're welcome
I will append I’d say I’d somewhat agree with you if the gap was smaller. If say Real had only 2-3 CLs than us then I would pick the barca memories having treble seasons and such and hope we would close the gap in future. But man 9 CLs difference is a lot and might not overcome in my lifetime.
jamrock
Senior Member
Will not be over come ever.
We should have at minimum 7, but such is life.
But I'll take our great memories over theirs, I don't hear people talk about any of these recent Madrid CL winning teams the same way they talk about ours.
They win, they it's kinda forgotten the next year, which to be fair is probably why they keep winning it, they don't dwell, just do enough to keep winning.
We should have at minimum 7, but such is life.
But I'll take our great memories over theirs, I don't hear people talk about any of these recent Madrid CL winning teams the same way they talk about ours.
They win, they it's kinda forgotten the next year, which to be fair is probably why they keep winning it, they don't dwell, just do enough to keep winning.
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
2012 we simply had a lot of bad luck and missed some chances we should have scored on.
2019 under Ernie the entire team apart from Messi shat themselves. That disaster should have led to much bigger changes than what ended up happening. Sadly we were also managed by idiots in the board.
Birdy
Senior Member
LOL
If find it insane that so many repeat this crappy line up to this day
How is he an asshole when the criminals that were in charge of the club never backed him with a proper structure?
Is it an accident that he has stayed so many years at City with the very same people that were part of Laporta's structure (Txiki, Soriano) at the time?
He left because they didn't back him and give him maximum authority and power to shape the squad for the years to come
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