Pep's Barca 10/11 v Liverpool 18/19 or Bayern 19/20

[mc_lovin]

Hard to say if 2011 Barca can compete physically in 2021, but just looking at Messi I guess they could.

Our 2019 UCL games vs Liverpool make me pretty sure prime Barca would win against them, and current Bayern looks rather headless at times. I dont believe Xavi, Messi and Iniesta wouldnt punish that.

 

[KingLeo10]

Any impartial observer of the sport IMO should see that Bayern '20 and Liverpool '19 win against Barca '11.

Liverpool'19 had trouble beating a Spurs side that even that declining Barca 18/19 with only Messi as the WC player destroyed.

You really have no argument here other than 'Bayern and Liverpool sides are from 19 and 20 so they win by default because football progresses'. While football does indeed progress ON AVERAGE over time, there isn't a sufficient time gap between 2011 (i.e. it is still modern football) and the level of players that team had made it an anomaly.

 

[KingLeo10]

Hard to say if 2011 Barca can compete physically in 2021, but just looking at Messi I guess they could.

Our 2019 UCL games vs Liverpool make me pretty sure prime Barca would win against them, and current Bayern looks rather headless at times. I dont believe Xavi, Messi and Iniesta wouldnt punish that.

We ran more than the top teams of the last year did in CL in 10-11. Xavi regularly clocked 13 KM a game. Pedro, Alves, Villa were also tireless.

 

[JamDav1982]

Cant put too much down to how close opposition came to beating teams.

Barca were one Masch tackle away from being eliminated by a poor Arsenal side in 2011.

Barca were the most dominant of those sides by far though.

 

[Joan]

Also, it's not as easy as saying this team presses, so they'll better Barca without a flinch. If it was, all teams would be out there pressing like madmen 90% of the time. Pressing is a risk in football and it presents certain opportunities which players like Iniesta, Xavi, prime Messi, and similar could take benefit of.

Yeah, modern tempo might surprise 10/11 Barca at the beginning and catch them unprepared in the first 15 minutes or so. But football hasn't changed that much and the players possessed elite skills to compensate for it. Would be back in the game in no time.

 

[Birdy]

2010/11 Barca is the best team I’ve ever seen technically, speed of thought was ridiculous. Not saying Bayern 19/20 would get battered by them, but were talking about prime Xavi, Iniesta and Busi... that’s without adding the best version of Messi to the mix. Obviously times have changed, better physicality, pressing etc but it’s only 10 years later and like someone else mentioned we were putting up high Km running numbers similar to now.

The modern press would get nowhere near that midfield, they think too quickly. Remember the ball travels faster than players running. Would be running round like headless chickens most of game and Barca would pick them off.

I get the legendary status of prime Xavi, prime Iniesta, and prime Messi.
But you should try to do the thought experiment as impartially as you can.

I think you are wrong about the 'nowhere near that midfield'. The speed of thought is relevant to the standards of that era as well.
The maddening and intense, relentless pressing nowadays is not that headless in top teams. They intimidate the opposition by overwhelming them.
Think about Barca's build up back then:I can't think of single game Pique Puyol and Busi were man marked close to their goal and their passing lanes were cut off or potentially cut off by pressers who would aggressively step up to win any ball played.
It was plainly not a thing back then, it started appearing after Klopp's Dortmund.

Plus on the opposite end: Watch the clip again from the Barca - Sevilla from 2010, and see what Sevilla was doing every time 3-4 Barca players were close to them.
Their reactions were hilarious for nowadays, you would not see that even in mid-table sides and that was the 4th top team in Spain back then.

 

[Birdy]

You really have no argument here other than 'Bayern and Liverpool sides are from 19 and 20 so they win by default because football progresses'. While football does indeed progress ON AVERAGE over time, there isn't a sufficient time gap between 2011 (i.e. it is still modern football) and the level of players that team had made it an anomaly.

I am explaining why Barca would lose against them. Care to read it...

And yes, 10 years is not that much time, but those 10 years between 2010 and 2020 football has changed so drastically that it had never before in a span of 10 years.
Many factors contributed to that: pep's revolution started it and the need of teams to find answers created new dynamics which eventually crowned intensity and pressing as no1 requirement around 2020

 

[KingLeo10]

I get the legendary status of prime Xavi, prime Iniesta, and prime Messi.
But you should try to do the thought experiment as impartially as you can.

I think you are wrong about the 'nowhere near that midfield'. The speed of thought is relevant to the standards of that era as well.
The maddening and intense, relentless pressing nowadays is not that headless in top teams. They intimidate the opposition by overwhelming them.
Think about Barca's build up back then:I can't think of single game Pique Puyol and Busi were man marked close to their goal and their passing lanes were cut off or potentially cut off by pressers who would aggressively step up to win any ball played.
It was plainly not a thing back then, it started appearing after Klopp's Dortmund.

Plus on the opposite end: Watch the clip again from the Barca - Sevilla from 2010, and see what Sevilla was doing every time 3-4 Barca players were close to them.
Their reactions were hilarious for nowadays, you would not see that even in mid-table sides and that was the 4th top team in Spain back then.

Pep's Bayern employed a very aggressive press against us at the Camp Nou in 14/15 and most of our core from 10/11, despite being older, dealt with it without much trouble. In fact, we ran as much (if not slightly more) than Pep's Bayern that day and counter pressed them effectively. The first goal came out of Alves harassing Bernat IIRC.

 

[KingLeo10]

I am explaining why Barca would lose against them. Care to read it...

And yes, 10 years is not that much time, but those 10 years between 2010 and 2020 football has changed so drastically that it had never before in a span of 10 years.
Many factors contributed to that: pep's revolution started it and the need of teams to find answers created new dynamics which eventually crowned intensity and pressing as no1 requirement around 2020

Not at the CL KO level. What's changed is lesser teams have learned from watching more elites play the Guardiola/Klopp brand of football.

 

[Birdy]

We played totally differently in 14/15 compared to 10/11,
and Pep's Bayern '15 pressing is not close to Flick Bayern's 2020 pressing: they were not pressing as effectively and they were making easy positional mistakes creating huge spaces for MSN, which could easily picked out by a pass from the back.
They were still trying to find their balance as a team

 

[Horatio]

Agree with Birdy saying current teams would respond much better against Peps Barca.

 

[KingLeo10]

We played totally differently in 14/15 compared to 10/11,
and Pep's Bayern '15 pressing is not close to Flick Bayern's 2020 pressing: they were not pressing as effectively and they were making easy positional mistakes creating huge spaces for MSN, which could easily picked out by a pass from the back.
They were still trying to find their balance as a team

Care to actually back this up with evidence? Not even close? Really?

 

[te amo barca]

Bayern?s elite pressing let Lyon create a bunch of clear-cut chances that would see them through if Ekambi and Depay didnt choke. This Bayern is far from 2009-2011 Barca that is a top-5 team of all time.

 

[Birdy]

Care to actually back this up with evidence? Not even close? Really?

I don't have endless free time to do a video analysis of that game. If you have a link handy I can point you some instances.
But the pattern of that game was not really comparable to Barca's 10-11 game. Bayern was more trying to build up and Lucho's Barca was trying to disrupt them close to the halfway line and hit long balls to MSN to exploit space left behind/

Bayern?s elite pressing let Lyon create a bunch of clear-cut chances that would see them through if Ekambi and Depay didnt choke. This Bayern is far from 2009-2011 Barca that is a top-5 team of all time.

Never said their system is flawless. Both Lyon and PSG exploited spaces they left.
Even horrible Barca managed to cause them enough trouble at the back.
But their philosophy is that they will outscore you, not through control but through sheer intimidation

 

[El Gato]

10/11 Barca couldn't handle David Luiz a year later. Pretty sure Henderson at CB would suffice