Philippe Coutinho

[BBZ8800]

Hope you're here to collect your L at the end of the season when he's played 1000+ minutes and is still a waste of space.

I don't know whether he'll be good.
But for me, with the ball, he is the only player besides Depay, Dembele and Ansu who can create something.
All other guys (Gavi and Nico included) are just pig in the middle guys who just circulate the ball till death and who need someone like Cou, Depay or Dembele to actually do something with the ball.

Imagine a midfield of Frenkie, Busi, Gavi and Pedri.
Guys would pass the ball around for 100 years without making a single shot on goal.

Also, for some fans, Cou is dead after 100 minutes, playing as a LW or with 10 men where we had 6 actions in the last 20 minutes.

While Messi gets excuses for worse performances at Psg (even worse, his performances are Ballon D Or worthy).
And as said before, young Fati will probably get 12 months of excuses for similar performances.

 

[aragorn]

I don't know whether he'll be good.
But for me, with the ball, he is the only player besides Depay, Dembele and Ansu who can create something.
All other guys (Gavi and Nico included) are just pig in the middle guys who just circulate the ball till death and who need someone like Cou, Depay or Dembele to actually do something with the ball.

Imagine a midfield of Frenkie, Busi, Gavi and Pedri.
Guys would pass the ball around for 100 years without making a single shot on goal.

Also, for some fans, Cou is dead after 100 minutes, playing as a LW or with 10 men where we had 6 actions in the last 20 minutes.

While Messi gets excuses for worse performances at Psg (even worse, his performances are Ballon D Or worthy).
And as said before, young Fati will probably get 12 months of excuses for similar performances.

Like a dumbass someone actuallly goes ahead and compares Coutidiot to Messi! What a shame

 

[JohnN]

I don't know whether he'll be good.
But for me, with the ball, he is the only player besides Depay, Dembele and Ansu who can create something.
All other guys (Gavi and Nico included) are just pig in the middle guys who just circulate the ball till death and who need someone like Cou, Depay or Dembele to actually do something with the ball.

Imagine a midfield of Frenkie, Busi, Gavi and Pedri.
Guys would pass the ball around for 100 years without making a single shot on goal.

Also, for some fans, Cou is dead after 100 minutes, playing as a LW or with 10 men where we had 6 actions in the last 20 minutes.

While Messi gets excuses for worse performances at Psg (even worse, his performances are Ballon D Or worthy).
And as said before, young Fati will probably get 12 months of excuses for similar performances.

Messi in CL had 2 great passes for clear goal, hit the post and was the most dangerous creator.
Against Lyon, more great passses for goals, hit the post again and some good runs. He was really good first half. Also, Messi is 34 to 35 in a new team and second game was half injured.

I wouldn't say it's even comparable.

 

[mc_lovin]

He cost us what? 50ME in salary+amortization per year? Definitely worth it.

And Pedri is a much, much better passer than Coutinho.

 

[Rory]

Come on bbz, that was just a baaad take.

I get what you mean, when Coutinho is on he at least has the mentality of make something happen. However, he just doesn't have it in him anymore to actually do anything progressive. He might have the thoughts to attack but his speed, balance, agility etc just isn't there.

 

[Raketa10]

I don't know whether he'll be good.
But for me, with the ball, he is the only player besides Depay, Dembele and Ansu who can create something.
All other guys (Gavi and Nico included) are just pig in the middle guys who just circulate the ball till death and who need someone like Cou, Depay or Dembele to actually do something with the ball.

Imagine a midfield of Frenkie, Busi, Gavi and Pedri.
Guys would pass the ball around for 100 years without making a single shot on goal.

Also, for some fans, Cou is dead after 100 minutes, playing as a LW or with 10 men where we had 6 actions in the last 20 minutes.

While Messi gets excuses for worse performances at Psg (even worse, his performances are Ballon D Or worthy).
And as said before, young Fati will probably get 12 months of excuses for similar performances.

Did you just compare Coutinho to Messi? You lost your entire credibility there.

Can't believe you are still defending Coutinho after all of his crappy performances for this club. Coutinho from Lpool is long gone. Just deal with it. This version of Coutinho is just awful and there is almost no chance he will regain his Lpool form ever again. Coutinho was great when he came here. He played really good during the first 6 months in Barcelona, but from the start of 2018/19 season he became crap and he is currently hitting the rock bottom of his career. FFS Gavi and Demir are above him in the pecking order. That's just laughable.

 

[BBZ8800]

Come on bbz, that was just a baaad take.

I get what you mean, when Coutinho is on he at least has the mentality of make something happen. However, he just doesn't have it in him anymore to actually do anything progressive. He might have the thoughts to attack but his speed, balance, agility etc just isn't there.

I get you also.

But it's ridiculous that people's favorite players get 1000 excuses for similar reasons.

Pedri is tired.
Pedri is young.
Pedri has a bad coach.
Pedri is surrounded by bad teammates.
Our team has no system.

Or look at the army of Puig's followers.

About Ansu, in every match he was dancing between being the worst player on the pitch with the horrible first touch and horrible decision's making and between scoring a wondergoal out of nowhere (Dembele's style).
But then he got injured leaving us with a small sample of games played so we can't say YET whether he is meh player with Inzaghi's level of lucky finishing or he is a 150m worth gem with bad touches here and there.

3 Months ago this Nico kid was the new big thing.
In reality, a guy is Gumbau's younger brother.

About Messi, lol.
I didn't compare Cou with Messi, I am just saying that the same people will write off Cou after 2 matches yet Messi would get excuses for 20 similar matches like: he is not fully fit, bad coach, bad teammates, bad luck.

What was Cou supposed to do last night?
Even with 11 vs 11 we couldn't string 4 passes in a row and couldn't create anything.
Depay is beyond horrible player who acts as if he is Messi/Neymar yet possesses 20% of their abilities.
Luuk is a footballer for segunda.
Midfield just circulates the ball around.
Dest is a level for Austrian league.
Demir is a level for Uefa cup Austrian team.
This whole team would struggle to pass get through Uefa cup group stage.

And then we got a red card, Cou steps in and he is blamed for being a bum in a team lead by a budget clown Depay and surrounded by guys where you have *two and a half men/decent players*.

For guys who shit on Cou for yesterday, what was he supposed to do?
We were chasing the ball for 70% of time, he dropped to our box to defend.
When we got the ball, we were dead tired to run into the attack and our attacks were like 3 vs 7 opponents.
Cherry on top is: whenever you pass the ball to Depay, there is 80% chance for a bad first touch, horrible dribble or dribble past 4 opponents and losing the ball.

What were Cou's other passing options?
Dest, Busi, Nico and Riki.
I would literally tell to Koeman if I were Cou: No thanks, I don't want to go in. With whom will I exchange 2 passes in a team?

Frenkie was out, Pedri is injured.
Name a player from yesterday in the last 20 minutes who is able to play 3 passes without losing the ball.

I can't.

Koeman is setting lineups as if he wants to get fired and take the cash for remainder of his contract.

 

[Raketa10]

I get you also.

But it's ridiculous that people's favorite players get 1000 excuses for similar reasons.

Pedri is tired.
Pedri is young.
Pedri has a bad coach.
Pedri is surrounded by bad teammates.
Our team has no system.

Or look at the army of Puig's followers.

About Ansu, in every match he was dancing between being the worst player on the pitch with the horrible first touch and horrible decision's making and between scoring a wondergoal out of nowhere (Dembele's style).
But then he got injured leaving us with a small sample of games played so we can't say YET whether he is meh player with Inzaghi's level of lucky finishing or he is a 150m worth gem with bad touches here and there.

3 Months ago this Nico kid was the new big thing.
In reality, a guy is Gumbau's younger brother.

About Messi, lol.
I didn't compare Cou with Messi, I am just saying that the same people will write off Cou after 2 matches yet Messi would get excuses for 20 similar matches like: he is not fully fit, bad coach, bad teammates, bad luck.

What was Cou supposed to do last night?
Even with 11 vs 11 we couldn't string 4 passes in a row and couldn't create anything.
Depay is beyond horrible player who acts as if he is Messi/Neymar yet possesses 20% of their abilities.
Luuk is a footballer for segunda.
Midfield just circulates the ball around.
Dest is a level for Austrian league.
Demir is a level for Uefa cup Austrian team.
This whole team would struggle to pass get through Uefa cup group stage.

And then we got a red card, Cou steps in and he is blamed for being a bum in a team lead by a budget clown Depay and surrounded by guys where you have *two and a half men/decent players*.

For guys who shit on Cou for yesterday, what was he supposed to do?
We were chasing the ball for 70% of time, he dropped to our box to defend.
When we got the ball, we were dead tired to run into the attack and our attacks were like 3 vs 7 opponents.
Cherry on top is: whenever you pass the ball to Depay, there is 80% chance for a bad first touch, horrible dribble or dribble past 4 opponents and losing the ball.

What were Cou's other passing options?
Dest, Busi, Nico and Riki.
I would literally tell to Koeman if I were Cou: No thanks, I don't want to go in. With whom will I exchange 2 passes in a team?

Frenkie was out, Pedri is injured.
Name a player from yesterday in the last 20 minutes who is able to play 3 passes without losing the ball.

I can't.

Koeman is setting lineups as if he wants to get fired and take the cash for remainder of his contract.

First, Messi deserved to be excused for his bed games because he gave to this club as much as no one before him did. That's perfectly normal. Would Bulls fans shit on Jordan if he had a bad game? No they wouldn't, but for sure they would on Luc Longley for example. A credit has to be deserved and it's not given by default.

Second, Messi probably didn't play 20 matches in 5 seasons on the level Coutinho played yesterday so stop being ridiculous.

Third, we are not talking only about yesterday's game. Coutinho is playing like that for 3 seasons straight. Tell me ONE great game he had during the last 3 seasons?

Remember we played against CADIZ and not Bayern or Lpool! Messi carried us for over a decade on his back and Coutinho can't make a simple pass or dribble past one player against fucking Cadiz or Granada. The one who is inconsistent is you. How come you didn't defend Messi like this during the last 2-3 seasons? Unbelievable things.

Would you defend Pedri like this? Or Depay? Or anyone? For example Depay had 2 very good games in this season, that's more than Coutinho had in 2 years. You are biased towards Coutinho as it gets. Can't believe how stubborn you are. We have paid 140 mil for this guy and he is playing on the level of Gavi. Sorry, but you are completely wrong regarding Coutinho.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

If anyone goes back and watches the last 10 minutes of the the match last night, you can see exactly what I am referencing.

- Pedri, Gavi etc. are not just passing merchants. There was one passing exchange between Gavi, Puig & Busi where the ball finally was circulated with some pace. Couple quick passes then a quick ball over the top sprung a half chance in the box. You can rate / not rate Cou all you want but it is very tiresome when people attack another player on our squad while defending another, especially with slander that is just objectively false. Its simply disingenuous to pretend these kids are just sidewise pass merchants when they show plenty of creativity and is just as disingenuous as people who attack one player for one thing and defend a player for doing something similar or being in a similar situation

- On Cou specifically, I think it was his last touch of the game: he was right outside the box near the middle and went 1v1 with the defender. He saw that there was space out wide, tried to make an explosive touch into that space, did not shake the defender and then went back and squared a safe ball back to the middle. That one sequence summed up Coutinho for me and is why I kinda see what BBZ is saying even though I dont agree: he has the bravery, flair and vision to lead an attack but he no longer has the physique and explosion for how he wants to play anymore. He at least tries to do something creative but he does not have the quality to pull it off. I will give him this: he usually has the right idea he just does not really have the quality anymore.

Which is why we simply need to move on, let him go for free or whatever and just take the L. Expecting anything more from him is just setting yourself up for heartbreak and frustration.

 

[JohnN]

Ok, we can establish some facts.
1. People will defend / excuse their favourite players more than others for bad games.
2. Benefit of the doubt for some bad performances / bad patch if form, is deserved by players who have consistently shown a great level / helped the club immensely in the past.
3. Massia talents / young players deserve more Patience than veterans.

That's my take with this and it seems right.

Coutinho is judged like a 160m player with high paycheck and one of (probably the only) star players we have left. Can't put him on the same list as Pedri because Pedri is freaking 18 nor Messi because he was the best player in the world for 10+ years.
So, by his standards and the level he should provide, he has been underwhelming for as long as he has played for us, apart for 6 months and he seems to be declining even more.

 

[Birdy]

First, Messi deserved to be excused for his bed games because he gave to this club as much as no one before him did. That's perfectly normal. Would Bulls fans shit on Jordan if he had a bad game? No they wouldn't, but for sure they would on Luc Longley for example. A credit has to be deserved and it's not given by default.

Second, Messi probably didn't play 20 matches in 5 seasons on the level Coutinho played yesterday so stop being ridiculous.
.

Mate, Messi played 20 matches from Sep until Dec 2020 , in each of which he was worse than Coutinho yesterday

 

[KingLeo10]

Mate, Messi played 20 matches from Sep until Dec 2020 , in each of which he was worse than Coutinho yesterday

He was still scoring (albeit half were pens) and assisting at non-Messi levels, something Coutinho seems to be incapable of doing.

Of all the hills to die on, Coutinho is not the one. He's a mentally weak player who can only shine in an already strong/dominant team.

 

[Birdy]

He was still scoring (albeit half were pens) and assisting at non-Messi levels, something Coutinho seems to be incapable of doing.

Of all the hills to die on, Coutinho is not the one. He's a mentally weak player who can only shine in an already strong/dominant team.

Doesn't tell me enough if he scored a few times when he was missing sitters constantly
Cou, Demb, Ansu had all better converstion rate than Messi in that period.

Even Braithwate had a better conversion rate than Messi in that period.
Had posted the stat here, and Jammy was using it later to laugh at me

And beyond scoring, he was ghost-walking and stopping our attacks like a training cone in that period.
No matter how you love Messi, that's the truth

 

[KingLeo10]

Doesn't tell me enough if he scored a few times when he was missing sitters constantly
Cou, Demb, Ansu had all better converstion rate than Messi in that period.

Even Braithwate had a better conversion rate than Messi in that period.
Had posted the stat here, and Jammy was using it later to laugh at me

And beyond scoring, he was ghost-walking and stopping our attacks like a training cone in that period.
No matter how you love Messi, that's the truth

I'll let you continue to believe Coutinho has anything to offer and we can assess at the end of the season who was correct on this one.

If he gets 1000 minutes, I think his production will be under 5 G + A in those 1000 mins

If he gets 2000 minutes, I think his production will be under 10 G + A in those 2000 mins

3000 minutes and up is out of the realm of possibility because he's also an injury prone player

 

[vegitot]

Doesn't tell me enough if he scored a few times when he was missing sitters constantly
Cou, Demb, Ansu had all better converstion rate than Messi in that period.

Even Braithwate had a better conversion rate than Messi in that period.
Had posted the stat here, and Jammy was using it later to laugh at me

And beyond scoring, he was ghost-walking and stopping our attacks like a training cone in that period.
No matter how you love Messi, that's the truth

The fuck are you talking about??? Even Messi in his bad form fduring that period, he was levels above current Coutinho.

Let's look at Messi during that period rating (Using sofascore which rates player by their stats, you love them do you):

Vs Villareal: 8,2
Vs Celta:7,2
Vs Sevilla: 7,4
Vs Getafe: 7,4
Vs Ferencvarosi: 9,4
Vs RM: 6,4
Vs Juventus: 8,7
Vs Alaves: 8,6
Vs Kyiv: 8,1
Vs Betis: 8,8
Vs Aletico: 7,1
Vs Osasuna: 8,7

These are all pre December. Now let's look at current Coutinho's rating:

Vs Bayern: 6,6
Vs Granada: 6,7
Vs Cadiz: 6,6

Honestly these rating don't tell the whole picture but you must be insane if you think current Coutinho is better than a "bad form" Messi

Coutinho just recovers from injuries so it's quite normal thing but this guy will not turn into Messi, not even a bad form Messi.