Quique Setien
- Thread starter FC433
- Start date
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
That Villarreal game seemed to completely delude everyone in the club that Barca had turned some kind of corner, lol. Maybe that's the case in terms of realizing how to use Griezmann, but for every other aspect of our mediocrity we have not moved forward one inch.
Busquets, Suarez, Rakitic are still complete liabilities and yet seen as not only good but IRREPLACEABLE which is beyond absurd. We saw an effect of speed and energy when Puig was in midfield and now he's dropped that completely because Roberto in midfield worked for 1 game against a reckless Villarreal team?
How easily these people are convinced of such stupidities. One great game and Setien thought he had reached a eureka moment. Pitiful.
Busquets, Suarez, Rakitic are still complete liabilities and yet seen as not only good but IRREPLACEABLE which is beyond absurd. We saw an effect of speed and energy when Puig was in midfield and now he's dropped that completely because Roberto in midfield worked for 1 game against a reckless Villarreal team?
How easily these people are convinced of such stupidities. One great game and Setien thought he had reached a eureka moment. Pitiful.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Setien is shit scared.
He is seeing ways to lose rather than ways to win too often.
Top coaches are all gamblers that will take risks. He is looking at game and terrified of ways it can go wrong and freezes too often make changes when games are tight incase that decision has a negative impact.
Doesnt know his best team... unless he does but is too scared of the dressing room to act on it.
He is seeing ways to lose rather than ways to win too often.
Top coaches are all gamblers that will take risks. He is looking at game and terrified of ways it can go wrong and freezes too often make changes when games are tight incase that decision has a negative impact.
Doesnt know his best team... unless he does but is too scared of the dressing room to act on it.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
"Suffering in the final minutes? I insisted a lot on keeping the ball, but this team wants to score more goals. We need to improve on that and be more conservative at certain times."
He is a joke coming out with that..... Barca were far too conservative, slow and lacking in any tempo... but Setien thought the team were to gung ho.
Absolute farce.
He is a joke coming out with that..... Barca were far too conservative, slow and lacking in any tempo... but Setien thought the team were to gung ho.
Absolute farce.
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
It makes sense tactically. We can't defend so we should just pass the ball around. Our team defense Wis a joke.
When it looks to good to be true it probably is. The positive media campaign after the last match to make it seem like Griezmann was flying here, Setien had unlocked the keys to the team, the players had come together and we were going to play champagne football from that point forward after one good match was ridiculous.
Givenchy
Senior Member
yeah it was pretty obvious to anyone who's watched Barca in the last 2 years that this was a false dawn
they'll throw Setien under the bus as they did with Valverde and the seniors will gain even more power sadly.. Setien could atleast call out this fuckery. sub Suarez, bench him, you're getting sacked anyway. the longer this goes on, the bigger the mess we'll be in when Messi and co do leave; such a selfish bunch these club de amigos
Birdy
Senior Member
1) @BBZ8800
There is some truth to what you say, but there is also a strong flip side.
It's true that world-class attackers for example tend to finish their chances better, and xG reflects the probability given all different levels of players, thus reflects the probability of an 'average' finisher.
So, Messi for example will make the 0.1 chance into a goal not 1/10 times which is the indicated probability, but maybe 5 out of 10 or something like that.
And i agree that the next leve lfo evolution of xG stats will be to 'adapt' the probabilities to the track records of specific players, and that would give a more accurate picture.
Now, notwithstanding the above, the argument that 'we have Messi so we adapt our chances to his qualities' is largely a rationalization of the pathology of the team, and I will tell you why:
Yes, Messi can finish better, but giving Messi for example a game where he shoots 10 times with 0.01 every time is praying for a miracle to happen.
In a system that would utilize Messi's qualities best, you would give Messi the chance maybe to shoot less, let's say 5 times during a game, and every time the probability of 0.1-0.4, which means bringing Messi to positions of finishing where he can be really clinical given his qualities.
Messi-dependence is a pathology, not a viable tactical strategy.
Of course working the in and outs of how can a tactical plan bring players to positions where they can take a chance with higher probability requires work, both from the coach, and from the players. Work, which has not been done at least the last 4-5 years.
Likewise, in defense the same can be said about Ter Stegen.
Yes, Ter Stegen saves better than probably all keepers in the world at the moment. chances of let's say 0.3-0.4 other keepers will concede 3 out of 10 times, and Ter Stegen might concede only 1 or 0.5 times.
But the 'we rely on Ter Stegen' line is not a defensive plan at all. It is rather the indication that the team is vulnerable defensively and needs a keeper to save its ass every game.
Do the necessary tactical work, so you are not exposed to good chances of the opposition...
2) Overall
I see a lot of discussion about 'flawed statistics'
There are no flawed statistics. Stats reflect something.
The question is : i) what they reflect, ii) how you interpret it
Until some years ago, we would see the same stats displayed as in the mid-70s: shots, shots on target, possession, cards etc.
Now someone who thinks stats are exhausted to that is likely to assume that stats are useless or they don't tell the whole (or any) truth.
Of course, if a shot from 50 yards is counted as a number of equal value to a shot on 1v1 with the keeper, the total number of shots is at best an incomplete, and worst a misleading metric.
Room for interpretation is vast, given that set of stats.
The revolution in football stats the last 5-7 years has completely changed the rule of the game.
First of all the new stats, as more sophisticated, are more indicative of effectiveness.
The xG for example is the best metric available to measure how 'good a chance' is. And when it becomes relative to the individual, it will become the most accurate metric to measure how 'good' a chance is.
Example about how the new stats reflect more accurately the game:
Atletico-Bayern CL semi-finals 2016. Both teams demonstrate similar stats in the 'old set' of stats between 1st and 2nd leg: similar possession in both 1st and 2nd leg, similar shots, similar shots on target etc. However it was obvious to anyone watching the games that 1st leg had nothing to do with 2nd leg.
A look into the new stats, completely sets the record straight: 1st leg Atletico won on xG, and 2nd leg Bayern utterly battered Atletico on xG.
And of course there are deeper alleys you can walk through, why Bayern battered them on the 2nd leg, what changed tactically etc...
The increased accuracy of the new stats, incites also another change: it leaves less room for interpretation.
With the old set of stats, there was a lot of room and rightfully so. Now, there is still room, but less.
For example if the xG scoreline of a game is 0.4-2.2 for the opposition, you cannot argue convincingly anymore that your team played 'well', which was more difficult to stipulate in the past.
Liverpool's success story the last years under Klopp is also a testimony to that new 'scientific' approach to football. They are light years ahead of all other clubs in Europe in recruitment because they have specialized departments devoted to that type of 'statistical analysis' when identifying potential targets.
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Messigician
Senior Member
People are too harsh on him.
3 points whole playing with 10 men for over 40 minutes I'll take it everytime.
We move!
3 points whole playing with 10 men for over 40 minutes I'll take it everytime.
We move!
Batistuta9
New member
The likes of setien and valverde are not going to cut it anymore. Which winning teams have mid table level managers? We haven't had a manager among the world's best since pep left, that's almost 10 years now
Richard.H
Senior Member
Espanyol also had 10 men, it was even. Espanyol had a couple chances too
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