Marshall D Teach
Well-known member
Day 1: Day Off FC OVER
Day 2: Club de Amigos OVER
Incredible.
Day 2: Club de Amigos OVER
Incredible.
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Quique Setien
- Thread starter FC433
- Start date
xXKonan
Senior Member
I have no idea how Valverde even got cult status with certain fans on here and everywhere else. And the idea of someone like Seiten who's himself follows Cruyff principles is somehow satan to these people.
Like do they really enjoy having a team that cannot pass, control or do anything for shit other than possibly win games due to individual brilliance? How is that even worth defending someone over Valverde for? I'm not saying Setien is a guaranteed success but I cannot believe there are people willing to still stan for that clown and the bullshit he put out in the last two years.
Valverde got lucky he didn't get the sack much earlier. He had been riding his luck for ages now and everyone knew his luck would run out eventually as Messi won't always be there to bail him out.
Like do they really enjoy having a team that cannot pass, control or do anything for shit other than possibly win games due to individual brilliance? How is that even worth defending someone over Valverde for? I'm not saying Setien is a guaranteed success but I cannot believe there are people willing to still stan for that clown and the bullshit he put out in the last two years.
Valverde got lucky he didn't get the sack much earlier. He had been riding his luck for ages now and everyone knew his luck would run out eventually as Messi won't always be there to bail him out.
You've been hyping up this current Madrid side to the moon and back the past few days. Reality is there is no basis to warrant this undeserved hype regardless of the fact they won some glorified SuperCopa in the Middle East that they had no business being a part of in the first place.
Real Madrid, much like us are pacing at 80 points for the season. That is what Valverde managed to do in his worst moments with the club. If Setien cannot best that then he needs to be kicked to the curb and we should look for a more qualified manager.
This bloke is not a Klopp we are talking about where it is justifiable to put up with a few bare years in the hopes of building something greater. He is a 61 year old journey-man that has done nothing noteworthy in his career thus far. His work at Las Palmas and Betis mean nothing to a club of this stature. He has been given the opportunity of a lifetime and the onus is on him to prove himself, and prove himself quickly.
Devils
Senior Member
"If Valverde blows a 3-0 first leg at Ainfield then he's out the door, simple as.
If 99% of managers who played in the history of CL could do it, then surely Valverde can do it with his incredible management"
You'd never hear that sort of logic from a Valverde apologist applied to Valverde himself, dawg.
If 99% of managers who played in the history of CL could do it, then surely Valverde can do it with his incredible management"
You'd never hear that sort of logic from a Valverde apologist applied to Valverde himself, dawg.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
I generally like Hamzah's posts about needing a true workhorse (prime Lampard, Vidal, Kante, Makelele, Essien type), but this extreme opinion "if Setien can't deliver LL in 6 months" is inexplicable.
Nobody thinks Barca is Arsenal. The expectation is always to win big trophies or compete hard for them. I don't see where the notion is coming from that we only need to play aesthetic football.
It's aesthetic football in the service of winning. We can always control the aesthetic football. Sometimes our rivals are super strong and even our best level isn't enough. For example, Pool is currently too strong for any version of current Barca to beat. We'd only beat them if we had Kloppo and they didn't.
The problem people have with EV is HOW he lost in the CL. From a stat point of view, we only 'lost' by 1 goal each to Roma/Pool. In the case of Pool, losing by 1 goal to the eventual champion is not so bad right? WRONG. Because we served up chokes of the tier only surpassed/equalled by QSG in recent times and Milan in the 00s. Those are historic humiliations from a position of 99% security. And the same mistakes were repeated both seasons. Maybe 1 could be excused. Maybe. But never 2.
Nobody thinks Barca is Arsenal. The expectation is always to win big trophies or compete hard for them. I don't see where the notion is coming from that we only need to play aesthetic football.
It's aesthetic football in the service of winning. We can always control the aesthetic football. Sometimes our rivals are super strong and even our best level isn't enough. For example, Pool is currently too strong for any version of current Barca to beat. We'd only beat them if we had Kloppo and they didn't.
The problem people have with EV is HOW he lost in the CL. From a stat point of view, we only 'lost' by 1 goal each to Roma/Pool. In the case of Pool, losing by 1 goal to the eventual champion is not so bad right? WRONG. Because we served up chokes of the tier only surpassed/equalled by QSG in recent times and Milan in the 00s. Those are historic humiliations from a position of 99% security. And the same mistakes were repeated both seasons. Maybe 1 could be excused. Maybe. But never 2.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
Fun fact,
We lost the tie by 1 goal to Inter, Chelsea, Roma, and Pool.
In the first 2, NOT a single person on Earth thought we were the inferior team. It was missed penalties, fluffed chances, randomness, and referee error.
In the latter 2, we were dunked on by every single opponent fanbase for being chokers and rightfully so.
That's the difference between Pep and EV.
We lost the tie by 1 goal to Inter, Chelsea, Roma, and Pool.
In the first 2, NOT a single person on Earth thought we were the inferior team. It was missed penalties, fluffed chances, randomness, and referee error.
In the latter 2, we were dunked on by every single opponent fanbase for being chokers and rightfully so.
That's the difference between Pep and EV.
It's funny how quickly the narrative has shifted from:
"The only reason Valverde is winning La Ligas is because of Messi and weak opposition, so it doesn't matter and ANY manager can do it. The CL is what matters."
to
"Setien cannot be expected to deliver a league title even though he took over while we are at the top of the table. Madrid look strong. Let's hope for better football and give him time. A trophyless season is okay."
And if you call this blatant hypocrisy out you are branded an EV apologist.
"The only reason Valverde is winning La Ligas is because of Messi and weak opposition, so it doesn't matter and ANY manager can do it. The CL is what matters."
to
"Setien cannot be expected to deliver a league title even though he took over while we are at the top of the table. Madrid look strong. Let's hope for better football and give him time. A trophyless season is okay."
And if you call this blatant hypocrisy out you are branded an EV apologist.
I’m not really defending valverde as much as I’m expecting the same standard to be applied to the new manager.
If valverde is pure garbage and bailed out by Messi then what does that make setien if he fails to win a league against Madrid clubs that are still as weak as they were the last two seasons?
It shouldn’t be one standard for setien and another for valverde, just because one fits with your ethos of how to play football.
If valverde is pure garbage and bailed out by Messi then what does that make setien if he fails to win a league against Madrid clubs that are still as weak as they were the last two seasons?
It shouldn’t be one standard for setien and another for valverde, just because one fits with your ethos of how to play football.
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serghei
Senior Member
It's funny how quickly the narrative has shifted from:
"The only reason Valverde is winning La Ligas is because of Messi and weak opposition, so it doesn't matter and ANY manager can do it. The CL is what matters."
to
"Setien cannot be expected to deliver a league title even though he took over while we are at the top of the table. Madrid look strong. Let's hope for better football and give him time. A trophyless season is okay."
And if you call this blatant hypocrisy out you are branded an EV apologist.
Perfect example of another dumb post in the pro-Valverde anthology on Barcaforum.
Do you believe current Madrid is much stronger than last season Madrid? If yes, half of your post is wrong from the start and you are guilty of manipulating the truth in order to fit an agenda. If no, you are just clueless.
So, which is it?
Too late. It was a cheap irony towards a new manager who hasn't managed a single game for us. Also, nobody in their right mind thinks Madrid is not a whole tier above what they were last season. I mean it's not possible to really think current Madrid are as good as the last season Madrid.
Last season we beat them 5-1 easily. Now they dominated on Camp Nou with some of their best players missing, while we had a full team. How can you even compare the two?
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KingLeo10
Senior Member
It's funny how quickly the narrative has shifted from:
"The only reason Valverde is winning La Ligas is because of Messi and weak opposition, so it doesn't matter and ANY manager can do it. The CL is what matters."
to
"Setien cannot be expected to deliver a league title even though he took over while we are at the top of the table. Madrid look strong. Let's hope for better football and give him time. A trophyless season is okay."
And if you call this blatant hypocrisy out you are branded an EV apologist.
The expectation is always to win. But the strength of rivals matters.
If RM put up a 90 point season, Setien can't be held COMPLETELY responsible for not being able to dig out of the hole EV created so far.
if RM put up a 80 point season, the expectation is to win and he will be judged harshly if he doesn't. Rightfully so.
By the logic of only looking at title wins, you'd have fired Klopp for putting up 97 points last season but coming in 2nd.
It's pretty straightforward. Us EV 'haters' are reasonable. EV's fanclub is the one doing cartwheels.
Those are fair points, I’ll give you that this is an unstable season which can affect the final outcome
messi2140
6racies Xavi
I know one thing , if I see Setien doing a horrible job at the end of year or going for some questionable decisions in a few months I will call him out instead of cheerleading for him and pulling some random stats that look in favour of Setien.
I urge these Valverde cheerleaders to join a greek football forum like this one http://forums.phantis.com/forum/173-soccer/
I urge these Valverde cheerleaders to join a greek football forum like this one http://forums.phantis.com/forum/173-soccer/
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