Ronald Koeman

BarcaOG

Banned
If you don't answer all my points, you already admit defeat.
I gave you examples that had happened of why your 'every year we should win' line is totally wrong.

As for Malvolio's point, he is wrong.
It's very simple, I have explained it tons of times in the past.
Out total xG this season is far superior than last season (72.3 non penalty xG to 61.9 in 19/20).
The reason we scored 1 less is that our attackers have been pretty bad in converting their clear chances this season, while last season it was the opposite: they were converting half-chances.

So this shows exactly that Koeman did a much better job that both Valverde and Setien in improving how this team attacks. His players let him down, some of which were saving Valverde's life week in week out for some long while...

xg :lol: :lol: another absurd hypothetical

mate, i suggest you play Football Manager. there you can depend entirely on your imagination

edit: i also never argued that we should 'expect' titles every year, but that the elite clubs certainly 'demand' them. difference here. again, do you think K would be allowed to continue at Real/Chelsea/Bayern? no way. because hes a loser, as his record clearly shows.
 

malvolio

Senior Member
My point is that you make idiotic claims like we aren't as ruthless as Chelsea when they've won a grand total of 5 league titles and 1 CL in the last 15 years while being "ruthless"...while we have 10 league titles and 4 CL.

No one is saying the last 2-3 years should be the standard at Barcelona. We got extremely lucky with the golden generation and then we got very unlucky with Barto and his board. But maybe not try being an absolute gloryhunting melt who demands major trophies every season. That happens at NO club. It hasn't in the last 60-70 years of elite football.

Tbf I don't know if Barto and his team were too stupid to do proper scouting or they were just unlucky. Main problem is that we failed the most important transfers after Neymar left. Had those guys delivered, even the Barto era would have been good overall. Certainly not Gaspar level.
Anyway, without Messi we wouldn't have achieved what we have in the past 15 years.
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
I'm honestly not fixated on who's our coach, I don't think it matters either. Koeman's right: it's quite possibly the worst squad in 20 years, and the first thing the board should focus in is getting rid more than half the squad and replacing it with quality signings. I have no idea how that'll happen, but until it does nothing else will change much really.
 

Birdy

Senior Member
xg :lol: :lol: another absurd hypothetical

mate, i suggest you play Football Manager. there you can depend entirely on your imagination

edit: i also never argued that we should 'expect' titles every year, but that the elite clubs certainly 'demand' them. difference here. again, do you think K would be allowed to continue at Real/Chelsea/Bayern? no way. because hes a loser, as his record clearly shows.

You know the definition of a hypothetical?

xG is a statistical norm.
And it is the best measure to tell if a player should be expecting to make a chance or not.
If Messi, Griezman, put whoever you want here, are not converting chance of let's say x value (which is statistically expected to be converted), and the same players last season were not only converting the x value chances but many chances of much lower value

how is that Koeman's fault?
On the contrary, it's something entirely irrelevant to the managers. It boils down to the individual effectiveness of our players

PS:
No club 'demands' them every year without taking into account the historical state of the team.
By the way neither Chelsea or Real are good examples of how to treat a manager.
Perhaps it shows what's wrong with your conception, as you are perpetuating an idealism that has proven faulty time and time again with boards such as Abramovic's or Perez's, who sack a coach whenever they wake up on that side,
without plan, without direction, without any process of evaluating the work of a coach.
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
Koeman has done a good job. Whether it's good enough is up for debate. I supported him and still feel the majority of the blame lies with the players. The squad is not good enough and not balanced enough. Too many old players, too many shitty players, too many inexperienced youngsters. Even the best managers would have struggled with this squad.
However I will concede that Koeman has fucked up at some critical points. Why the fuck did he bring back Umtiti, Roberto and Pique? Was it pressure from amigos or did he really think these losers could do something?
I think he will be here next season simply because there are no stand out candidates for the job.
You can hate Koeman all you want ultimately the players have to deliver on the pitch.
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
In a horrible season with a terrible squad we won a Copa and finished third. Alot of big clubs have done worse than this while in transition.
 

kattanib

Well-known member
In a horrible season with a terrible squad we won a Copa and finished third. Alot of big clubs have done worse than this while in transition.

I was going to say that he also would have won the league had we won against Levente Celta and Granada and he managed to get us out of the champions league silently without any humiliation.. then I checked to see how did we get out of the champions league because apparently my mind wiped that scenario just to realize we had another large beating :facepalm:
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
Invalid comparisons.
Pep took a WC squad, same with Flick at Bayern.
Koeman took up a washed up squad.

Then again, not fair to judge Koeman by his past.
He has been much better this season that his previous jobs

Spot on.
Pep had world class players in EVERY position. Even our back up players were better than the garbage we have now.
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
I was going to say that he also would have won the league had we won against Levente Celta and Granada and he managed to get us out of the champions league silently without any humiliation.. then I checked to see how did we get out of the champions league because apparently my mind wiped that scenario just to realize we had another large beating :facepalm:

The cl is a mentality issue. If this team had any fucking mental strength we would have won cl in 18 or 19 even with that garbage called Shitverde.
 

Bobo32

Senior Member
Spot on.
Pep had world class players in EVERY position. Even our back up players were better than the garbage we have now.

Pique, Pedro, Busquets were nowhere near world class before Pep. Abidal can be argued, and a lot of players that played a lot of minutes, like Maxwell, Keita, Adriano etc.
Check a list of wingers he used (with success) in some games and where they ended up after and say again that he only used world class players... Jeffren, Cuenca, Tello etc.
 

kattanib

Well-known member
Pique, Pedro, Busquets were nowhere near world class before Pep. Abidal can be argued, and a lot of players that played a lot of minutes, like Maxwell, Keita, Adriano etc.
Check a list of wingers he used (with success) in some games and where they ended up after and say again that he only used world class players... Jeffren, Cuenca, Tello etc.

Pep had Xavi, Messi, Etoo, Henry (or did he buy him?) and Puyol I believe which is a great foundation

He then had the very promising Iniesta and the board backed him up in signing young promising Pique and Dani Alves


Today Koeman has Messi, Busquets, Griezman, Alba and Stegen and the promising Pedri/Fati

Koeman is also trusting youngsters and introducing them aka Busquets and Pedro back then

Last thing Koeman needs is the board to support him in buying his players
 

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