Tanguy Kouassi

[Andresito]

They've bought Upamecano.

Yeah lol forgot about him.

 

[Newcomer]

He said he left PSG for a solid sporting project while he barely played there -to be fair, he was injured a lot- and they bought a young proven CB in Upamecano.

These ungrateful academy players will always find some shitty excuses even when you give them everything.

 

[Yannik]

He said he left PSG for a solid sporting project while he barely played there -to be fair, he was injured a lot- and they bought a young proven CB in Upamecano.

These ungrateful academy players will always find some shitty excuses even when you give them everything.

He injured himself last summer and has only recently returned in April trying to regain fitness. There wasn't much that gametime in for him so far. Imo the fact that almost any youth player wants to leave PSG indicates there's more of an issue with their academy than the players. This doesn't happen to other clubs in that frequency after all.

Does anyone know what how the talk goes surrounding him in Germany? Alaba and Boateng leaving and no real replacement bought so far. Do they have high hopes in Nianzou?

There's also still Upamecano, Suele and Hernandez.

 

[Newcomer]

He injured himself last summer and has only recently returned in April trying to regain fitness. There wasn't much that gametime in for him so far. Imo the fact that almost any youth player wants to leave PSG indicates there's more of an issue with their academy than the players. This doesn't happen to other clubs in that frequency after all.



There's also still Upamecano, Suele and Hernandez.

It is a larger phenomenon.

France and especially PSG are known for the quality of the academy work. A player in PSG youth system will play in all the big youth competitions, allowing himself to show off his qualities at the highest level of youth level. Now, contrary to Spain with Bar?a B being able to play to an high level, there is still a big gap between youth team and PSG professional squad, let alone regular playing time in L1 and C1. There is also the fact that french clubs are at a disavantage when proposing a pro contract to their youth compared to clubs abroad. In France, you can only offer a 3 year contract for the first pro contract. German clubs who are bad at academy levels (Dortmund, Bayern and other german clubs raiding our academy in recent years) can just come and offer a big and longer contract to our youth. If we want to compete, we have to actually buy our own player (lol) with their sign on fee and other financial demands. We had to do some special deal just to keep one of our best youngsters last year due to the french regulation putting us at a disavantage. El Chadaille Bitshiabu signed an aspirant contract of 3 years in 2020 just to keep him while he is supposed to sign his pro contract of 3 years in 2021 (because he can't sign a pro contract before being 16 y.o.).

French players have no patriotism and no loyalty either. An italian youngster will try to stay and succeed in his country first. Same for German players, Spanish players too to an extent. Even if some british players are going to the Bundesliga too, they are still giving their parent clubs a small money (Sancho).

These fuckers at PSG are the most ungrateful bunch ever. Getting all the reward of being in PSG academy but not even allowing the club to get a ROI by getting even a small sum by signing their first pro contract with us. At this point we are nurturing players for others... Just burn the whole academy...

Kouassi got everything : playing time in L1 and C1, coach trust, nice offer and PSG didn't renew Thiago Silva. Compare that to Bayern who is actually buying Upamecano. It is clear that PSG sporting offer was way better than Bayern's.

I think the players i hate the most in football are indeed the PSG academy players.

 

[Yannik]

There is also the fact that french clubs are at a disavantage when proposing a pro contract to their youth compared to clubs abroad. In France, you can only offer a 3 year contract for the first pro contract

That's the same in Germany and Spain, no player under 18 is allowed to sign a contract worth more than 3 years. I believe it's actually the same everywhere, those are FIFA statutes.. Everyone plays by the same rules, but I do only see PSG struggling and complaining about it. If douzens of youth players leave either ALL of them are supposedly ungrateful, or there's some bigger issue going on behind the scenes that causes such an exodus.

 

[Newcomer]

That's the same in Germany and Spain, no player under 18 is allowed to sign a contract worth more than 3 years. I believe it's actually the same everywhere, those are FIFA statutes.. Everyone plays by the same rules, but I do only see PSG struggling and complaining about it. If douzens of youth players leave either ALL of them are supposedly ungrateful, or there's some bigger issue going on behind the scenes that causes such an exodus.

Kouassi signed a 4 years contract with Bayern. PSG and other french clubs can only offer a 3 years contract as the first pro contract.

The big exodus is explained by the fact academy players from PSG are an hot commodity. They bargain the best offers.

About the fact PSG is practically forced to "buy" its own players to keep them: Kalimuendo at Lens and Dina Ebimbe at Dijon were loaned out and PSG will have to pay 1,5 millions and 2 millions respectively to get them back. PSG is forced to do that because french clubs are selling clubs. They wouldn't play a youngster from another team who will bring no benefit in the end. This form of loan where they get a cheap option to buy or get PSG to pay them to keep the player is the only way to get a "good loan".

I don't know what you think PSG could propose to keep those ungrateful guys. Most of them aren't ready yet to be in the first team and don't want to wait and grow to gain their places. The few who are already mature and are playing a plenty like Kouassi are leaving anyway. There is no win with those guys, except for themselves.

 

[Yannik]

Kouassi signed a 4 years contract with Bayern. PSG and other french clubs can only offer a 3 years contract as the first pro contract.

Players are not allowed to sign a >3 year deal below the age of 18, not at the first contract (that's just what it typically is in the case of youngsters). Minor protection laws. This is the same everywhere.

https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...rs-june-2020.pdf?cloudid=ixztobdwje3tn2bztqcp

Kouassi turned just 18 when he signed for 4 years for Bayern. Musiala or Bellingham out of my head both also had only a 3 year contract originally. Same with Ansu Fati and Pedri who both had contracts only until the max length of 3 until 2022 before turning 18. Have you never actually noticed there is not a single 17yo player in the world with a 4+ year professional contract?

About the fact PSG is practically forced to "buy" its own players to keep them: Kalimuendo at Lens and Dina Ebimbe at Dijon were loaned out and PSG will have to pay 1,5 millions and 2 millions respectively to get them back. PSG is forced to do that because french clubs are selling clubs. They wouldn't play a youngster from another team who will bring no benefit in the end. This form of loan where they get a cheap option to buy or get PSG to pay them to keep the player is the only way to get a "good loan".

Just looked these transfers up. That's not a rule or anything, that's a deal Leanordo made with the boards of the respective loan clubs.
Both were loans with €6m buyout options. However PSG also had the right to veto the buyouts if they get triggered via a counter clause which was 1.5m and 2m. And that happened. PSG paid the counter clause they agreed on to keep the players at the club. They were not "being forced", they agreed to that deal. There's no rule or law that uniquely applied to PSG here, that's just a questionable transfer decision.
Sure sucks for them that they can't find a nice thankful loan club but that's all on them, no greater powers involved.

 

[Newcomer]

Players are not allowed to sign a >3 year deal below the age of 18, not at the first contract (that's just what it typically is in the case of youngsters). Minor protection laws. This is the same everywhere.

https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...rs-june-2020.pdf?cloudid=ixztobdwje3tn2bztqcp

Kouassi turned just 18 when he signed for 4 years for Bayern. Musiala or Bellingham out of my head both also had only a 3 year contract originally. Same with Ansu Fati and Pedri who both had contracts only until the max length of 3 until 2022 before turning 18. Have you never actually noticed there is not a single 17yo player in the world with a 4+ year professional contract?



Just looked these transfers up. That's not a rule or anything, that's a deal Leanordo made with the boards of the respective loan clubs.
Both were loans with ?6m buyout options. However PSG also had the right to veto the buyouts if they get triggered via a counter clause which was 1.5m and 2m. And that happened. PSG paid the counter clause they agreed on to keep the players at the club. They were not "being forced", they agreed to that deal. There's no rule or law that uniquely applied to PSG here, that's just a questionable transfer decision.
Sure sucks for them that they can't find a nice thankful loan club but that's all on them, no greater powers involved.

I don't understand what you are trying to prove in your first paragraph. I textbooked told you i'm talking about the first pro contract. French clubs (PSG) can only offer a 3 year contract. Kouassi sign 4 year for Bayern. French clubs (PSG) are already in an inferior position when they are negociating the first pro contract because the overall package will be inferior, unless they pay more for less years.


About the second paragraph. Why do you think PSG are doing this kind of stuff (they seem really committed in developping their youngsters despite the cost) ? Because they don't have a "segunda" that can play at an higher level, they don't have patient, grateful, patriot youngsters who can wait and learn. Because they won't find a successful loan without having to buyback their own players simply because those clubs have no incentive not to play their own youngsters instead. Then, you have players who are happy to be in a loan farm scheme at Chelsea and be loaned out during 3-4 years. It is just a different mentality of players. Mbapp? said it perfectly : he refused to go to Real Madrid as early as 2013 because he said he is french and wanted to leave a mark in his country and in his town. Some don't care about wearing their childhood club shirt at all.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Which country has "patient, grateful and patriotic youngsters who can wait and learn"? They are the same pretty much everywhere. We (Barca) have lost quite few, haven't we? And since when does this have anything to do with patriotism?

I don't think the French or PSG kids are any different. The only thing that might set the French clubs apart from clubs from other leagues could be that the French league is still relatively inferior to the other top and established European leagues, so some kids might opt for going abroad to play instead of playing in France.

 

[Porque]

I have no doubt that Newcomer has much better knowledge of PSG than I. Cracking poster too.

But there has to be more about why the players are leaving than just Bundesliga raiding the academy talents with more money.

We had similar issues and with the employment laws around the times of Cesc and still a few cases here and there.

Still happens (ironically the more recent being Xavi Simons to PSG as Raiola wanted the same money we were offering Ilaix) but has generally subsided.

Back then our issue was the perception that the academy players weren't being valued and offered routes into the main team.

So maybe these kids of PSG have poor agent influence or a toxic environment where they don't find themselves valued to reach the first team of PSG. Just a bit odd looking at it peripherally as generally, other french talents tend to stay at the Ligue1 squads and then get sold overseas once breaking through.

 

[Newcomer]

I have no doubt that Newcomer has much better knowledge of PSG than I. Cracking poster too.

But there has to be more about why the players are leaving than just Bundesliga raiding the academy talents with more money.

We had similar issues and with the employment laws around the times of Cesc and still a few cases here and there.

Still happens (ironically the more recent being Xavi Simons to PSG as Raiola wanted the same money we were offering Ilaix) but has generally subsided.

Back then our issue was the perception that the academy players weren't being valued and offered routes into the main team.

It is not only a matter of money. The cases are complicated and the roots of the problem are deep.

Football is the sport of the "poor". Those academy players are often coming from difficult upbringing and their first pro contract is important because it can set up the whole family. Fofana from Sainy-Etienne explained it when he decided to take the offer from Leicester. He has a large family and his money can help settle their debt and sustain their way of life.

Kouassi for example had a very close bond with his agent who was driving him everywhere, even sleeping at his parent home, etc... There are several agents like that who get close/help/shackle those young players and basically guide and decide their future for them. They are part of the family of the youngster. Kouassi agent (agent of other youngsters of PSG too) have links with clubs from Bundesliga and it helps those clubs chasing after our players. It is indeed the fault of PSG letting their academy players get approached by this "difficult" people but it is what it is.

I think Bundesliga is an interesting league for young attacking players especially because the game is so open. A Player like Diaby for example is doing fine after playing for PSG and then going to Bundesliga. Same with Nkunku. I don't hold grudge over Aouchiche choice either because he would hardly find a place with the offensive players PSG can field. However, a guy like Kouassi goes from a certain place in the team with PSG not renewing Thiago Silva to a Bayern stacked with talented CB. I don't see the sporting project here.

I'm maybe a bit of an old school guy but when you are in an academy since your young age, you should play for your club or even in your country first before leaving.

Anyway, it is crazy how almost every single of our academy player is wanted by a German club.

Proud PSG are the driving force behind the future of football. Need more of those deep rooted clubs working at the amateur level against the mega rich and lazy german clubs stealing from the poor.

 

[JamDav1982]

Newcomer all in the trolling today.

 

[Yannik]

I don't understand what you are trying to prove in your first paragraph. I textbooked told you i'm talking about the first pro contract.

My point is that there is no such thing. PSG can offer more than 3 years on anyones first contract and did so. One of thousand examples: Mbapp? signed his first PSG contract over 4 years (excluding the 1 year loan).
The only exception is that the player is under 18. THEN they can't offer more than 3 years. Just like every other club, because its a FIFA rule.

There is no additional law that says PSG can't offer more than 3 years on a "first contract". Please proceed to post it here if you disagree.

French clubs (PSG) are already in an inferior position when they are negociating the first pro contract because the overall package will be inferior, unless they pay more for less years..

Yeah just like everyone else can't. I literally posted the law that says so directly from FIFA.com with red circles around it. That's why all these clubs immediately try to extend their young players contracts once they turn 18.

About the second paragraph. Why do you think PSG are doing this kind of stuff (they seem really committed in developping their youngsters despite the cost) ? Because they don't have a "segunda" that can play at an higher level, they don't have patient, grateful, patriot youngsters who can wait and learn. Because they won't find a successful loan without having to buyback their own players simply because those clubs have no incentive not to play their own youngsters instead.l

But how does that translate into systemic disadvantages?
PSG II plays in the third division. That's equivalent to everyone elses amateur team aswell. In Germany you can also only play up to the third division. In England they can't even play in professional leagues and have to stick in youth football. Only in Spain they can get promoted even to the 2nd division.
Every team faces obstacles when raising youth, but they find ways to get by. So not being able to find loans or negotiating them badly does not mean that it's a "fact" PSG is at a disadvantage. That's just self-imposed..

 

[Newcomer]

My point is that there is no such thing. PSG can offer more than 3 years on anyones first contract and did so. One of thousand examples: Mbapp? signed his first PSG contract over 4 years (excluding the 1 year loan).
The only exception is that the player is under 18. THEN they can't offer more than 3 years. Just like every other club, because its a FIFA rule.

There is no additional law that says PSG can't offer more than 3 years on a "first contract". Please proceed to post it here if you disagree.



Yeah just like everyone else can't. I literally posted the law that says so directly from FIFA.com with red circles around it. That's why all these clubs immediately try to extend their young players contracts once they turn 18.



But how does that translate into systemic disadvantages?
PSG II plays in the third division. That's equivalent to everyone elses amateur team aswell. In Germany you can also only play up to the third division. In England they can't even play in professional leagues and have to stick in youth football. Only in Spain they can get promoted even to the 2nd division.
Every team faces obstacles when raising youth, but they find ways to get by. So not being able to find loans or negotiating them badly does not mean that it's a "fact" PSG is at a disadvantage. That's just self-imposed..

You clearly don't know the French law.

If you understand french, here is a complete article about it and Leonardo view about how French clubs and PSG are at ? disavantage to sign their own academy players.

https://www.culturepsg.com/news/formation/pourquoi-les-premiers-contrats-professionnels-sont-de-3-ans-maximum-en-france/32502

BTW, Mbapp? didn't sign his first pro contract with PSG but with Monaco. Reason why Monaco had to sell him so fast after only one season (2 years left on his contract).

 

[Luftstalag14]

It is not only a matter of money. The cases are complicated and the roots of the problem are deep.

Football is the sport of the "poor". Those academy players are often coming from difficult upbringing and their first pro contract is important because it can set up the whole family. Fofana from Sainy-Etienne explained it when he decided to take the offer from Leicester. He has a large family and his money can help settle their debt and sustain their way of life.

Kouassi for example had a very close bond with his agent who was driving him everywhere, even sleeping at his parent home, etc... There are several agents like that who get close/help/shackle those young players and basically guide and decide their future for them. They are part of the family of the youngster. Kouassi agent (agent of other youngsters of PSG too) have links with clubs from Bundesliga and it helps those clubs chasing after our players. It is indeed the fault of PSG letting their academy players get approached by this "difficult" people but it is what it is.

I think Bundesliga is an interesting league for young attacking players especially because the game is so open. A Player like Diaby for example is doing fine after playing for PSG and then going to Bundesliga. Same with Nkunku. I don't hold grudge over Aouchiche choice either because he would hardly find a place with the offensive players PSG can field. However, a guy like Kouassi goes from a certain place in the team with PSG not renewing Thiago Silva to a Bayern stacked with talented CB. I don't see the sporting project here.

I'm maybe a bit of an old school guy but when you are in an academy since your young age, you should play for your club or even in your country first before leaving.

Anyway, it is crazy how almost every single of our academy player is wanted by a German club.

Proud PSG are the driving force behind the future of football. Need more of those deep rooted clubs working at the amateur level against the mega rich and lazy german clubs stealing from the poor.

You can't fault PSG for letting your academy players be represented by those "difficult" people, after all how can PSG or any club for that matter control who should be representing their players, including youth and academy players? Clubs have zero say on that matter. Also, the role of an agent is to look out for the interest of the players, not that of the clubs so naturally they will advise players to go after a bigger wage, more playing time or a more prestigious club with a better sporting project etc..

I understand where you are coming from, I too share your sentiment and wish that academy players, especially those who spent almost the entire career up to this point in a specific academy should play for that club. However, there are so many academy players and there are a lot of clubs tempting them with a fat checkbook these days.

As to the German clubs getting your academy players, I think it first speaks to the quality of your academy (we lost Morey to Dortmund too), also it is due to the poor state of the German club academies. I remember seeing a stat a couple of years ago ranking clubs with the most number of players playing in the five major European leagues (academy players playing for other clubs in the top 5 leagues), Ajax, Barca, Real Madrid and PSG etc. were far ahead of any of the German clubs in that regard.