Toni Kroos

Yannik

Senior Member
When both players were at the peak of their powers I.e
Gundogan before his injury, kroos playing deeplying Cm for bayern.
Who was considered the better player?

They were at their peak at quite similar times, Gündogan in the latter of half of the 2013 season where they reaced a final. Although he might be at his peak again. Kroos in the same season in the first half.
I'd give Gündogan the edge for personal preferences, because other than Iniesta there is no midfielder with a more gorgeous style of play imo and Dortmund is just 2 classes better with him playing, while Bayern didn't incredibly drop in form that year when Kroos was out. But Kroos had his contribution into Ribery's player of europe award, as Ribery tends to peak with Kroos on the pitch. I'd say Gündogan is still better though, on his peak aswell as overall.
 

gasgas

Senior Member
About Gundogan. Not Kroos.

Bayern was arguably stronger with him out of the lineup that year.

But Gundogan played the entire 12/13 season and was one of dortmunds stars in the ucl.

They were equally stronger,
With kroos they were more possession based and did great.

With kroos out, they welcomed robben on the right, and muller centrally and became more counterattacking
 

Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
Typical.
I wish you guys knew that most of the peoblems you have lie on the system and not the players.
Had you guys known how to use the world class players you have. Coz on paper your squad is much better and really..........
Argh why do I evn care, it's not even my team
:pep:

Nah man, Kroos does not fit Real Madrid and has become a slacker. He can dribble his way out of being marked but he cannot dribble his way through defenses, plus he is a lot more comfortable playing close to the opponent goal not our goal. Marco can dribble vertically and horizontally, and is comfortable playing deep and that is why I'd take him. Sure he is Italian but he is used to the French League so he has a higher chance of success.

Thing is, Kroos does not fit because we need all 3 players in midfield to be playing like him (as in, to his rhythm), and we are already an imbalanced team, so Kroos does very little to help out. Let us face it, Modric's injury took a toll and I don't think he is dominating as much anymore. He is our dribbler, and since Isco does not fit in the current 4 3 3 we need ball playing players, ones who can defend by possession. The moment gets the ball, he wants to distribute, but that works when you have the front three as ball retainers, which both Bale and Ronaldo are not. James and Isco are both better closer to the net, so who is going to carry the ball forward? Isco and James run a maximum of 20 yards, that would put them in dangerous position if they were part of the front 3, not the middle 3.

In a 4 4 2 we have no ball carrying wingers, besides Carvajal and Marcelo but we'd have to play a diamond for that to work, or defensively responsible midfielders, which Kroos, Isco, James, Bale, Ronaldo, are all not. So your full backs are your outlets, but no cover for them because of irresponsibility of the midfield. Bale, Ronaldo cannot carry a ball forward and are not good at holding it up front. James is, but he is played in midfield, too far from goal, but he is a central player, shoved to the outside. Isco is best played near goal, and he is sacrificed for his ball retention and defensive input far from goal, so when he runs 20 yards and still outside the box, his passing tendencies are crap. That leaves Kroos and Modric. Kroos does not have the speed, strength or the vertical ball carrying skills. That leaves Modric and Benzema, who can be marked easily with numbers.

This is where we have no fluidity. All because of fucking Bale and Ronaldo wanting to play in a 4 3 3, and they want to score goals, not carry the ball or defend.

Now if you bring Veratti and in defense:

Keylor
Carvajal Varane Ramos Marcelo
Bale Veratti Modric Isco
James Benzema

In this set up, James is closer to goal, Bale can run up and down the wing going from a 4 4 2 in defense to a 4 3 3 in attack, and this allows Isco some breathing space to combine with Marcelo who is fantastic at carrying the ball up and over lapping. Isco is not bad defensively, he has in big games put in a good defensive effort when played on the left but with James and Benzema retaining the ball up, he can move in between spaces and have someone play a short ball to.


Bring Veratti and in offense


Keylor
Varane Veratti Ramos
Carvajal Modric Isco Marcelo
Benzema
Bale James

All midfielder can play the ball be it dribble or pass, can defend in case of a counter, hold the ball, and now you have 2 players who hold the ball up front in Benzema and James and 4 in 4 in midfield. Also, this set up is less susceptible to irresponsible behavior and at any moment you can bring in the bench:

Marco Asensio for Isco
Kovacic for Modric
Casemiro for Marco
Jese for James
Vazquez for Bale
Nacho for Ramos
Danilo for Carvajal
Diego Llorente for Varane

We just need to buy another striker, and very little changes. This is all because we have a spent star in Ronaldo, and our midfield does not have enough ball players, and the midfield is not in sync.

Isco, James, Modric, both dribble.
Kroos does not.
Ronaldo and Bale both want quick trigger...so go figure why the team is out of phase.
 

DrPepper

New member
This is all nice and sweet but even if Verratti were to actually move to the mess that is Real Madrid, I'd give them a year at best before people start calling him "overrated". Probably even just two matches. 'Cuz that's how Mehdrid roll. :coffee:
 

Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
This is all nice and sweet but even if Verratti were to actually move to the mess that is Real Madrid, I'd give them a year at best before people start calling him "overrated". Probably even just two matches. 'Cuz that's how Mehdrid roll. :coffee:

Well if he does not perform...
 

Alik

Moderator
Well, for the price you acquired him, you could keep Kroos as a sub with no problems. Surely he is good enough for that?

Maybe an Arda - Kroos swap would make all fans happy :troll:
 

El Flaco

Active member
Great goal of course, but England made a poor job when they allowed Kroos to have enough space and time to pull it off...
 

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