UEFA European U21 Championship

[Ode to Django]

Well that's what i'm saying, it's all well and good opening all these parks, spending £millions on youth development because (apparently) we aren't producing when imo that is not the main problem.

England have always produced and will continue to produce, everyone is pulling down England's technical ability but last gen we had:-

Neville Rio Terry Cole
Beckham Gerrard Lampard Scholes Joe Cole Carrick
Owen Rooney

Everyone one of those was WC in there own right and the best or one of the best in their area of expertise, so how can people turn around and say England do not produce technically? Rather than spending millions on all these parks and blaming the players, i say point the finger in the coaches direction and spend a few million on coaching and putting more English people through their coaching badges.

The other thing is the type of league they play in, now i'm not being a dick and knocking the Premiership because i enjoy it, but it's all about fast pace, end to end, not much going on tactically. When you look over to Serie A/La Liga it's far more controlled, emphasis on brains/technique, tactical. I think that plays a big part in it. You may now mention the Champions League & the success there from the English, most are foreigners in the teams surrounded by those players you mentioned. Even then most of the English teams despite winning a fair bit, mostly get outplayed. Lose count the amount of times Manchester United scrape an undeserving win, Chelsea a season or so ago etc.

That's what i think is part of the problem, but most certainly the coaches are the biggest ones, because they all have the wrong views, win at all costs mentality rather than try and produce good performances consistently. Winning will come after you achieve this.

 

[jamrock]

Rio
Cole
Scholes
Rooney

 

[Jenks]

The other thing is the type of league they play in, now i'm not being a dick and knocking the Premiership because i enjoy it, but it's all about fast pace, end to end, not much going on tactically. When you look over to Serie A/La Liga it's far more controlled, emphasis on brains/technique, tactical. I think that plays a big part in it. You may now mention the Champions League & the success there from the English, most are foreigners in the teams surrounded by those players you mentioned. Even then most of the English teams despite winning a fair bit, mostly get outplayed. Lose count the amount of times Manchester United scrape an undeserving win, Chelsea a season or so ago etc.

That's what i think is part of the problem, but most certainly the coaches are the biggest ones, because they all have the wrong views, win at all costs mentality rather than try and produce good performances consistently.

The thing is though, up to the tournament, England had been playing a fluid 4-3-3 with Zaha as a false number 9, and were banging the goals in without conceding since 2011. Pearce just doesn't have the balls to do that against Italy and it cost us.

 

[The Kingslayer]

The other thing is the type of league they play in, now i'm not being a dick and knocking the Premiership because i enjoy it, but it's all about fast pace, end to end, not much going on tactically. When you look over to Serie A/La Liga it's far more controlled, emphasis on brains/technique, tactical. I think that plays a big part in it. You may now mention the Champions League & the success there from the English, most are foreigners in the teams surrounded by those players you mentioned. Even then most of the English teams despite winning a fair bit, mostly get outplayed. Lose count the amount of times Manchester United scrape an undeserving win, Chelsea a season or so ago etc.

That's what i think is part of the problem, but most certainly the coaches are the biggest ones, because they all have the wrong views, win at all costs mentality rather than try and produce good performances consistently. Winning will come after you achieve this.

The Premier League success is not 'luck' regularly English teams get into semi-finals having to knock each other out, 2 back to back seasons England had 3 teams out of 4 in the semi-finals, again having to knock each other out, including a final doing that, so that says to me PL teams haven’t been outplayed too often.

I've seen people use the excuse the Premier League success is hampering our national team, how can it? Some of the best players in the world play in the Premier League, surely that should only improve English players if they are training with them every day?

When i look at English players, we have had loads of players who have played in Champions League finals/who have scored in Champions League finals/captained their teams out in Champions league finals (4 Englishmen), been motm's in Champions League finals, how many country's can say they have that experience? To do all that must mean English players out there must have quality, so if we have, why are we failing? Why is our quality being questioned?

To me it can only be one thing and that's coaching and managerial tactics which we have been let down by recent years, it as to be said. The FA have spent millions on some of the 'so called' best managers in the world and all have failed us with shite team selections and clueless tactics, the golden generation could have easy won a world cup on paper, WC individually but just never clicked and it's a manager’s job to make a team click, it’s why the FA pay them £5m a year to figure out a system to succeed and if they don't it's no good blaming the players, when as said these players are some of the best in the world and have been there and done it all for their clubs.

 

[DonAndres]

The Premier League success is not 'luck' regularly English teams get into semi-finals having to knock each other out, 2 back to back seasons England had 3 teams out of 4 in the semi-finals, again having to knock each other out, including a final doing that, so that says to me PL teams haven’t been outplayed too often.

I've seen people use the excuse the Premier League success is hampering our national team, how can it? Some of the best players in the world play in the Premier League, surely that should only improve English players if they are training with them every day?

When i look at English players, we have had loads of players who have played in Champions League finals/who have scored in Champions League finals/captained their teams out in Champions league finals (4 Englishmen), been motm's in Champions League finals, how many country's can say they have that experience? To do all that must mean English players out there must have quality, so if we have, why are we failing? Why is our quality being questioned?

To me it can only be one thing and that's coaching and managerial tactics which we have been let down by recent years, it as to be said. The FA have spent millions on some of the 'so called' best managers in the world and all have failed us with shite team selections and clueless tactics, the golden generation could have easy won a world cup on paper, WC individually but just never clicked and it's a manager’s job to make a team click, it’s why the FA pay them £5m a year to figure out a system to succeed and if they don't it's no good blaming the players, when as said these players are some of the best in the world and have been there and done it all for their clubs.

Not always about the players, it's about the system. And frankly English football focuses on the players in the lineup rather than formation, tactics, etc. which is about individuality rather than collective teamwork.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I don't get what you mean, how can system/formation be individual (players) problem? Tactics/formations and getting the best out of players is a manger and all their coaching staffs job.

Also i think what England's problem is, is the players just aren't bothered about the national team, not just players too, English football in general, PL managers regularly moaning and groaning about friendlys and how (for example) Pearce shouldn't call up the Ox/Jones and Wilshere for the Euro's because they've had a long season or they've traveled with the senor squad a week earlier :stv171:

That doesn't happen in other countrys, Mata played in the Euros and Olympics straight after each other last summer, English players who played at Euro's wasn't allowed to play in the Olympics.

 

[DonAndres]

I was referring to how you defend English football by talking about how many players were CL motm's or how much quality they have. Their technical qualities are mainly individual, they are raised in a culture where football is shown in a glamorous way where every kid wants to be the next skillful CR7 or Ronaldinho, not learn the qualities of sacrifice and working within a team. It's not just about the coaches failing to implement those tactics on English players who are deemed 'quality'. It's that those players have the wrong set of skills to work as a unit and haven't been brought up with the mentality to do so. When each player is in possession they think separately and individually as opposed to Italian/Spanish football where they are taught to think and play as a group in whatever they are doing.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I was referring to how you defend English football by talking about how many players were CL motm's or how much quality they have. Their technical qualities are mainly individual, they are raised in a culture where football is shown in a glamorous way where every kid wants to be the next skillful CR7 or Ronaldinho, not learn the qualities of sacrifice and working within a team. It's not just about the coaches failing to implement those tactics on English players who are deemed 'quality'. It's that those players have the wrong set of skills to work as a unit and haven't been brought up with the mentality to do so. When each player is in possession they think separately and individually as opposed to Italian/Spanish football where they are taught to think and play as a group in whatever they are doing.

I don't agree with that at all, the PL is a diverse league and players from different country's/cultures all playing together who never lived England before they arrived.

I don't agree with that anyway, i think as a country we respect other country's football and styles more than any other, you only have to look at the PL itself, every team play a different style and that doesn't happen in any other league, you only have to look on here for example, a forum full of majority Brits supporting Barcelona and Spanish football or respecting Barcelona and Spanish football.

For me our downfall (national team wise at all levels) is coaching in how we teach to win at all costs and if that means playing badly then so be it, you only have to look at the u21's tonight. Rather than playing English kids of tomorrow or players technically better than others, Pearce as gone for age and players with 'a little' more experience than others at present, even though these players are less talented and won't represent England at senor level (other than the odd caps).

Other country's under16/18 and 21 levels 1st priority is all about tomorrow and 2nd winning, England it's not. So as said it's no good opening all these parks trying produce these technically gifted players, when coaching and mentality is still the same and amateur compared to other countrys.

 

[Catorce]

I am very curious as to how my Dutch squad is doing. Midfield is very good with Maher, Strootman, Clasie, Van Ginkel and Fer. Practically every line is good, just hope the front three pick up the scoring pace... We are in a deadly group btw, with Germany, Spain and Russia.

 

[FCBarca]

Should be yet another opportunity to assess Lopetegui who, for me, could be an ideal replacement for Del Bosque in the future...He's had his youth teams looking extremely sharp and exhibiting lethal precision...I expect big things from La Roja U21

 

[Zuess99]

bollocks, you cant tell me there are no tactics involved with epl teams, yes some of them dont have like stoke and reading. But most do like swansea, wigan,arsenal,man united,man city and spurs.You forget that some of them are managed by foreign coaches. epl aint lucky too.

 

[DonAndres]

Here's what my preferred lineup would be for the u21 Spain vs Russia game tonight:

-----------De Gea--------
Carvajal-Inigo-Bartra-Montoya
-----------Camacho-----------
--------Koke-----Thiago
-Tello------Rodrigo------Isco---

With Muniain, Morata, and Illaramendi subbing in at various points

 

[Semi-Neutral]

The game's in what, two hours? Also, that lineup looks so good...

Spain are going to wreck for years to come...

 

[DonAndres]

I know this is a horrible thing to complain about, but there is no way I can possibly be happy with Spain's midfield overflow for the next few years. Too many world class talents who will be left out

 

[Mr Hulot]

It is crazy how much talent Spain has. I can see them win the title once again. I am a bit sad for Muniain though, I thought he would be a world class player... Also, is Ander Herrera in the squad or he is too old for that shit? I always enjoyed Thiago-Ander...