Vitor Roque (loaned to Real Betis)

MontenegrinCuler

MontenegrinCuler

Well-known member
Yeah I agree we shouldn't have bought him but that doesn't undermine him as a player. Very few Brazilians could ever be worth spending 40 milion coming from their domestic league and Roque is not one of them. Still, he can turn things around and maybe even justify the price in future.
 
Messi983

Messi983

Senior Member
Ter Stature said:
He's nearly 20 in fact but generally I think it's really dumb to sign young strikers. Going off the brazilian league is even worse, we're not playing that kind of football.

But we know it was a panic signing, statement, or just dumb, what you wanna call it, "look madrid got a new brazilian, need one too, quick!".
I'm not opposed to any signings, but just splurging so much money because of some brazilian league, madrid and that shady agent again....

You can look at what Manure did, and it shows you need a mature striker, not some that MIGHT do something in MAYBE 5 years. Most aren't Haaland.

So how much did we even pay for him? I read 30 million plus 30 million bonus(?)
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1.) We have a proven striker. Plan was for Roque to come in, adapt, get minutes off the bench, expanding his role and then eventually take over from Lewa in two years. Totally different than expect him to start immediately like United guys you've mentioned.

Proven strikers are also not often available and when they are they cost a ton. And there is also no guarantee they will work. I'm not sure Haaland would be a success here tbf. Would bet more on Gyokeres but timing is not right with him unless we decide to part ways with Lewa after this season. Something I would do in a heartbeat but don't expect the club (and especially Lewa) to think the same.


2. ) 30m +30m variables.

I've seen two different version reported about variables.

1.) 5m for every season he plays 50% of the games (up to 25 mio.)

2.) 5m for every 25 games he plays (up to 25 mio.)

Then another 5 mio. for BDO top 3 finish in both versions.


I think second one is more likely given how desperate we were to offload him. He already played 14 league games last season so would need to pay at least 5 mio. more had he stayed and get minutes off the bench. Would be easier to manage him NOT to play in 50% of games in a season to avoid paying add-ons if we are that desperate to save some money. Unless he would prove to be a useful bench option so club would be happy to pay that money for him to play.

No idea if there are other criterias like he has to play at least 30 or 45 minutes in a game "to count". Probably not (would be great negotiatons by Deco if that was true though) as then that situation would be even easier to manage for the club as he would get most of the minutes off the bench anyway as long as Lewa is here.


I think we offloaded Vitor purely for financial reasons. I refuse to believe Bumsi gave up on him after one month (Xavi did and that was his biggest mistake). He would be perfect for his system coming off the bench for last 20-30 minutes and press like crazy. That decision was most likely taken by Laporta.

But for Vitor's career is better to play regularly at Betis than root on the bench behind Ursus anyway. Sadly I think relations between him and the club is broken and he'll never return and get a fair chance again unless ofc Lieporta is out by 2026 and everyone gets a fresh start.
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Games played per season was reported by more reliable sources, and the 45 minutes for games to count is almost standard in those contracts.

The whole "it was response to Endrick " is one of the most stupid claims regarding any signings we had. Roque was one of the most scouted players by Barca, and was signed in position of need a year after Endrick deal and there was a clear plan for him.

The mistake was the assumption that his weaknesses will be taken care off in a more attacking team, when in fact it exposed it more.

If he ever regains his finishing form prior to his summer 2023 injury, Roque will be a consistent 20 goals per season (all competitions) and that is a starting striker for many big clubs out there.

If he gets there by next season, we will get more than we paid for him. Heck, we might even keep him if we fail to get another prestigious no9
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
20 goals all comps isn't starting material for any big club these days TBH, that's for a secondary club like spurs, A.M.

Maybe a look like that will buy him if he continues to develop
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
jamrock said:
20 goals all comps isn't starting material for any big club these days TBH, that's for a secondary club like spurs, A.M.

Maybe a look like that will buy him if he continues to develop
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Yeah, more than half of big clubs don't have guy like that.
No 9 depth in football world is absolutely shit.
 
T

Ter Stature

Active member
I struggle to remember an elite brazilian striker in the last years, then vardrid signs some kid and suddenly we sign one, clear FOMO effect.
The difference is that they can splurge money on luxury signings without risk.

The mistake is thinking brazil where 38yo Hulk is scoring goals for fun is any better than segunda.

And signing a 19yo in a position of need is the dumbest thing ever, Lewandowski is 36 and now injured, did anyone really buy this "he'll stay 3 more seasons" stuff?
The same thing that happened with Ter Stegen could happen at any point

msedge_5GggnlNOib.png
Right now the reality looks like this. 20 goals are totally unrealistic with this output, not even Manure wants those kind of stats. Currently sitting at 13th.
As of now that's 3 real goals.
 
A

ajnotkeith

Senior Member
Ter Stature said:
I struggle to remember an elite brazilian striker in the last years, then vardrid signs some kid and suddenly we sign one, clear FOMO effect.
The difference is that they can splurge money on luxury signings without risk.

The mistake is thinking brazil where 38yo Hulk is scoring goals for fun is any better than segunda.

And signing a 19yo in a position of need is the dumbest thing ever, Lewandowski is 36 and now injured, did anyone really buy this "he'll stay 3 more seasons" stuff?
The same thing that happened with Ter Stegen could happen at any point

View attachment 11432
Right now the reality looks like this. 20 goals are totally unrealistic with this output, not even Manure wants those kind of stats. Currently sitting at 13th.
As of now that's 3 real goals.
Click to expand...
What's important is that he's getting into a lot of scoring positions, which is the main thing you look for from strikers in terms of potential.

He may be missing those big chances but the fact he's got the skills to get into position for a lot of big chances means that if his finishing develops over time he can aim to be a top striker. As a young striker, especially one from Brazil, he has plenty of time to develop his composure and finishing

So far it's actually positive and encouraging that he's got a starting spot and having high xG numbers.
 
T

Ter Stature

Active member
ajnotkeith said:
he's got a starting spot
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Because the other strikers at Betis are even worse, just look them up, it's not the accomplishment you think it is.

With a 30 million or more transfer this is not very impressive. I wouldn't care a bit if he had costed 10 million.
So now you have 30 million that you could've spent on a top GK or other position needed NOW wasted for the typical dose of hopium.

And I agree, you already pointed out why it's stupid to sign strikers at this age, they can develop in any direction and usually hit their prime in the late 20s.

There is no reason you would sign this dude in this situation except for the FOMO and thinking this dude will be an instant hit because of that imaginary brazilian bonus.

Considering his height and physicality, which are more than lacking for a modern striker, he would need to suddenly develop some Messi like technique.
There was a very similar brazilian striker and he's already in saudi now.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/marcos-leonardo/1047227 Nearly the same profile. This delusion just reminds me of manure.
 
MontenegrinCuler

MontenegrinCuler

Well-known member
Vitor Roque: "Players who stood out for me at Barca? Definitely Raphinha, Yamal and de Jong."

Not too surprised about Rapha, even Lamine but dang would never expect FDJ.
 
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