As good as Masch has been playing in defense, I think some culés tend to overrate him in such capacity. He's benefitted from playing behind a very efficient and ball retaining midfield. A glaring inadequacy in the current Argentina context. Can he take on waves of freq opp attack with the same verve and success as he does for us? I'm not sure. Personally, modern football is won or lost in Midfield. I'd rather look at strengthening the central unit. Arg lack another MF of his ilk. One who commands his area, wins the ball, kill the opp threat at its origin and also help facilitate attack. He shields the defense like no other (their feeble defense needs it). Taking him out from his best position would be losing such advantages. For me, he stays there and alongside a consistent banega and Pastore(the missing link)..this team completes itself. The defense would then be least of their worries. 
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
he did alright against Shakhtar defending wave-upon-wave of attack. Real Madrid, too. that's the kind of situation he thrives in. it's not like he's Busi, who can strut around at CB and sweep up but struggles when put under heavy pressure. Badger loves that shit.
games are 90% won or lost in midfield, but you need a magnificent midfield to make up for the kind of defensive deficiencies Argentina have right now. and even if they stick Mascherano in there, they still have problems of who to play alongside him, who to play wide, etc. I love Badger, but he's not exactly Xavi is he? or even Busi.
and they really REALLY need a right-back. the second Argentina come up against a powerful defence and Zabaleta is the only man they can get on the ball in threatening positions (third man attacks ftw) you'll see just how badly they need an upgrade there. that's probably the second biggest problem after the CB hole.
plus as Nolan and I have been saying, they have enough #5's to fenegel some ball-playing shit at pivot. sadly, Sabella seems to want to include Banega. this is a problem because he's a bonehead. it means the DM and the RW need to be sharp enough to cover when he wanders off trying to save the day by himself. a fit Gago would be a godsend here. let's see if Lucho can sort him out.
no idea where that RB is coming from, though. Nolan... any prospects?
games are 90% won or lost in midfield, but you need a magnificent midfield to make up for the kind of defensive deficiencies Argentina have right now. and even if they stick Mascherano in there, they still have problems of who to play alongside him, who to play wide, etc. I love Badger, but he's not exactly Xavi is he? or even Busi.
and they really REALLY need a right-back. the second Argentina come up against a powerful defence and Zabaleta is the only man they can get on the ball in threatening positions (third man attacks ftw) you'll see just how badly they need an upgrade there. that's probably the second biggest problem after the CB hole.
plus as Nolan and I have been saying, they have enough #5's to fenegel some ball-playing shit at pivot. sadly, Sabella seems to want to include Banega. this is a problem because he's a bonehead. it means the DM and the RW need to be sharp enough to cover when he wanders off trying to save the day by himself. a fit Gago would be a godsend here. let's see if Lucho can sort him out.
no idea where that RB is coming from, though. Nolan... any prospects?
You make it sound like Masch is some super CB who'll solve all their defense woes. He's helped at Barca by collective pressing and teamwork. Having a superior DM in Busi enables us to play Masch behind him. Arg don't 've it. Your proposal to deploy two 5's requires a capable defense at the back, and Masch alone won't give you that. Such a move would just weaken their MF with also no real significant improvement in defense. Intl football provides li'l allowance to experiment. Least not shifting your best players out of position when there is a dearth of similar quality in the related position. Its a recipe for disaster when you don't convene on a weekly basis to try correct/perfect such ideas.
Argentina's defense 'll remain their weakness until they find capable natural replacements. Players out of position 'll only further complicate matters. Instead, you try and solidify the mid structure that may not solve, but 'll help alleviate the above weakness. It requires Masch's strong defensive midfield presence, to stop the oppn. threat before it reaches thier vulnerable defense. And as much as you love to hate Banega, given the time and consistency, he'll prove the ideal partner for Masch defensively, but also in terms of possession and creative play. Gago has nothing on him. A trio of Masch, Banega and Pastore can lift their team on both fronts of the game. They do need a competent RB, I agree.
Argentina's defense 'll remain their weakness until they find capable natural replacements. Players out of position 'll only further complicate matters. Instead, you try and solidify the mid structure that may not solve, but 'll help alleviate the above weakness. It requires Masch's strong defensive midfield presence, to stop the oppn. threat before it reaches thier vulnerable defense. And as much as you love to hate Banega, given the time and consistency, he'll prove the ideal partner for Masch defensively, but also in terms of possession and creative play. Gago has nothing on him. A trio of Masch, Banega and Pastore can lift their team on both fronts of the game. They do need a competent RB, I agree.
W
Worms
Guest
If only Samuel was a few years younger,he will be too old for the next WC.
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
still hatin' on Badger, I see.
I mean, have you not been watching? he is a super CB. even with no help in front of him (such as when Keita plays at pivot).
he may not solve all their defensive woes, but he is head and shoulders above any other CB Argentina have. it doesn't have to be a long-term solution, just for long enough to allow Musacchio to develop and take his place alongside Otamendi.
utter bollocks.
Banega AND Pastore is superfluous, as it's clear Banega is at his best when he roams forward and makes things happen, so he'd just get in Pastore's way. plus if you play those three then where does Messi fit in? wide-right so Higuain can play up-top? false9 and drop Higuain? neither is a good option.
Mascherano and Banega could be a fantastic duo if Banega starts playing to his ability on a consistent basis. until he does that, though, Gago remains the saner choice because he's gonna keep things ticking over in a nice way like he did in the Copa (despite the awful stuff all around him) and not fuck things up trying to be a hero.
Not hatin'. Just saying that in the absence of another DM of his quality, his services would be more valuable in midfield than in defense. Taking him of his best position is severely compromising quality in one of the key areas of the team. He would 've to bear greater defensive burden, without any meaningful assistance from his defense partners (as they are are all close to being hopeless) and that midfield would get run. I just don't conform to such a risk.
Banega is a deep lying/box-box midfielder. Did you see him get in Canales' way, who much like Pastore is an attacking midfielder? Having Pastore eases the creative burden of messi and 'll keep things flowing. Banega ''ll help masch and steer the midfield.
--------Masch----Banega
-----------Pastore
Messi-----Gonzo-----Di Maria
Messi starts wide-right (quite accomplished in such a role) but floats around. A free role, in other words. The onus is on the RB to provide width. So, they def need a competent RB who can own that right flank, Alves style.
La Furia
Legion of Doooom
I'm very much a believer that, on a good Argentina team Masch would be a midfielder, because unlike Meta's belief that every team should be coached by Pep Guardiola and use midfielders as defenders, Argentina is nothing like Barca and needs a strong defensive pivot in midfield to get the most out everyone else. Gago-Mascherano is ideal.
However, while Argentina's defense sucks balls, unfortunately he's probably going to have to be used as a CB unless one of the prospects steps it up, because the back line is a disaster, and so playing Masch out of position is the lesser of evils.
However, while Argentina's defense sucks balls, unfortunately he's probably going to have to be used as a CB unless one of the prospects steps it up, because the back line is a disaster, and so playing Masch out of position is the lesser of evils.
Chainsaw
Killahead
Bingo Z!
This is my fav formation for Argentina, though knowing Sabella being somehow a prudent coach I see it unlikely to happen:
-------------Romero--------------
Zabaleta-Otamendi-Samuel-Ansaldi
---------Masche----Banega-------
-------------Pastore--------------
---Messi-----Higuain-----Di Maria--
Samuel can still contribute for the qualifiers. Even Zanetti. Hope by the time the likes of Pezzella, Fazio and Fernandez can step up and take the defensive spots in the team.
This is my fav formation for Argentina, though knowing Sabella being somehow a prudent coach I see it unlikely to happen:
-------------Romero--------------
Zabaleta-Otamendi-Samuel-Ansaldi
---------Masche----Banega-------
-------------Pastore--------------
---Messi-----Higuain-----Di Maria--
Samuel can still contribute for the qualifiers. Even Zanetti. Hope by the time the likes of Pezzella, Fazio and Fernandez can step up and take the defensive spots in the team.
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
which is exactly what I'm saying.
once Musacchio (or whoever) steps up, I want Mascherano back in position at pivot.
but until that happens, playing him at CB is, as you concede, the correct decision.
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
occasionally, sure, but mostly he'll get in the way and try to do everything himself. he's an idiot.
Canales is not the same kind of player as Pastore, and besides that, those two are Valencia's playmakers. with Argentina you have Messi as well. you don't need Banega getting in his way, you need a complimentary player who will feed him the ball and keep things running. that man is Gago.
anyway, re: Pastore, keep reading:
but they don't HAVE a RB who can own the right-flank.
so until they do, Messi wide-right is a no-go. he has to play centrally so as to not narrow & unbalance the team.
which means Pastore has to sit on the bench.
AnfieldEd
I am Leg End
Man what a shit defensive back 4.......
Chainsaw
Killahead
Oh yeah? You know any better back 4 for Argentina?
Please explain the role of R.Alvarez(vs venezuela) and Sosa(vs chile) in Sabella's team. From what i understand they are your AMs deployed as wide midfielders. What do they bring to the table that a Pastore can't?
The advantage of having banega in the team is 2-fold. His playmaking ability means he's an extra creative outlet that can join attack if and when necessary. But, he's also defensively adept (so much better than Gago in this aspect). He can tackle, retrieve the ball, suffocate oppn play and be a pest much like Masch. He'd also distribute and feed the forwards. Players are there to execute tactical orders. He'd do whats asked of him. But with him, he's capable both fronts. I didn't see him aimlessly wander in the final third or needlessly interfere in the attack in the Chile game. He held his position for the most part.
He does lack discipline, but that can be eliminated with time and stern mentoring. But he needs to be played regularly. Gago had a couple of good games at the Copa but there is no guarantee he'd do so consistently. Instead, you prepare and mobilize a player, more talented and of greater use long term. I'll be genuinely surprised if Gago starts over Banega in Brazil.
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