What makes a league "competitive" and what makes it a farmers' league?

[Centauri B]

Seeing as EPL cultists move the goalposts as the occasion demands, what is it that genuinely makes for a "strong", "competitive", "exciting" league?

What say you? Is it UEFA titles? Is it UEFA coefficients? Is it total number of champions in x amount of years? Is it different teams that can make it into the Top 4/6/whatever? Is it style of play? Is it whatever the zombie masses of EPL fanbois decide that it is at any given moment?

 

[Vilarrubi]

I'd say all of what you included is relevant.

Premier League fanboys will tell you "anyone can beat anyone" in the PL. There was a post/thread on twitter a couple of seasons ago (wish I could find it) where someone had created a table showing points taken from the top half of teams in the league by the bottom half of teams and La Liga's bottom half actually took more points off the top half than the Premier League

 

[Horatio]

It’s pretty simple actually: PL teams had EL and CL success.
Ligue 1 teams not so much.

So people downplay PSG’s strength as they feel they operate in a league with an overall low-level of competition.

 

[El Gato]

The problem with calling it a 'farmers league' is not one of unfair assessment but of tact. If people supporting teams from leagues with established stronger culture and infrastructure had not been thoroughbred arseholes about pointing out the difference, there wouldn't be a problem.

Ligue 1 was never full of scrubs and farmers, that'd be the Championship or Serie B, and should be treated with more respect, on the basis of academies and strong talent pool alone. There is a reason why their teams have consistently made quarters and semis every year until Qatari takeover. It's not the lack of talent but lack of exposure, business know-how and marketing.

Fans should just be better about it and refrain from resorting to idiotic mockery, mostly because one guy made a particular choice. Most PSG fans aren't cunts, just like most Cules aren't. Be better.

 

[barcafan161]

The fact an English team keeps winning the europa league and the fact two English teams were in the final of CL helps the argument along with the competition in the PL being tough and the style of play

 

[jamrock]

If it's in France it's a framers league.

Germany ain't far off being one either in.

Or Italy

 

[serghei]

'Farmers League' is a derogatory term that is fully used to make fun of Qatari-owned PSG. Or to make fun of those who artificially inflate Ligue 1's quality. Ligue 1 is a top League, but it is no doubt inferior in every way to the top 4 historic leagues, like Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga.

To not be a 'Farmers League' you have to have at least two clubs of similar stature and similar pull and influence. Take Serie A. Inter, Milan, Juventus have all shared time in the spotlight over decades. Spain have Barcelona and Real. In the absence of one, the other would completely turn the league into a snooze-fest at the top, similar to how it is in Ligue 1. But because Barca have Madrid and this rivalry is so rich and political and everything, it's rarely boring to see them fight.

Bundesliga are in danger of sharing the Ligue 1 tag. But their challenger-teams are still considerably stronger than Ligue 1's team. And let's not forget that the 2013 final was all Bundesliga. Let's see something like that happening, and see Monaco-PSG, or Marseille-PSG playing a CL final in this day and age, and maybe they will get rid of this unpleasant teasing slug - Farmers League.

 

[El Gato]

As evidenced by a mug posting above you, it is not.

 

[serghei]

As evidenced by a mug posting above you, it is not.

Yea mean to tell me that Farmers League is not mainly an attack on PSG? It's obvious that it is. If the Qatari wouldn't be so desperate to make PSG appear as a star-club of Barca-Madrid level, nobody would even bother to say about them that they play in the Farmers League.

 

[El Gato]

Yea mean to tell me that Farmers League is not mainly an attack on PSG? It's obvious that it is. If the Qatari wouldn't be so desperate to make PSG appear as a star-club of Barca-Madrid level, nobody would even bother to say about them that they play in the Farmers League.

Of course it is not, it's gone far beyond people expressing their dislike towards oil clubs. By that logic if there were 5 investors pushing the top5 above the pack you should stop referring to it as 'farmers league' in which there is no competition. And yet you still would. It's a term that appears due to inequality and purely out of mockery of the level of play. Which are both the effect of culture, coaching quality, business and infrastructure. People routinely mock players who look good in countries that are not England. Happens in the same way using different terms when people refer to Libertadores for example. Just British cunts being cunts. Because they happen to experience football in a country whose language has become lingua franca on a global scale and thus gets most investment.

 

[serghei]

Sure, man, if you believe so. I call them Farmers League to have a dig on PSG and their non-existent competition in France. If they had serious teams with pedigree in that league apart from PSG, I wouldn't call them Farmers League anymore.

 

[El Gato]

Mhm..
First you write

Yea mean to tell me that Farmers League is not mainly an attack on PSG? It's obvious that it is.

To only then, fairly, write

I call them Farmers League because.....

Don't mean it maliciously, but it's really frustrating when you present your opinion as fact. Sigh.

On the whole I can agree. Some, like you, might look at it as nothing but a dig at cocky PSG attitudes. Problem is, majority have just picked it up to brainlessly knock the league itself. Which does more harm than help. It affects appeal of the league and attraction of investors who would make it better if people didn't have dumb prejudices about it.

 

[serghei]

Don't mean it maliciously, but it's really frustrating when you present your opinion as fact. Sigh.

Lol, what the hell are you doing on forums then . Just ignore it as I do with most posts including some of yours.

 

[Centauri B]

La Liga vs Premier League Episode: XXXXIIIVVVVIIXXX

Atletico Madrid 19/20 in La Liga: 45 points in 27 games (1.66 ppg) goals: 31-21 (+10)

Liverpool 19/20 in Premier League: 82 points in 29 games (2.83 ppg) goals: 66-21 (+45)

Aggregate score: 4-2 for Atletico

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Of course, I am perfectly well aware that Atletico were lucky in the 2nd leg, but this is far from the first time that something like this happens:


Sevilla in La Liga 17/18: 58 points, goals: 49-58 (-9)

Man Utd in EPL 17/18: 81 points, goals: 68-28 (+40)

Aggregate score in R16 of CL: 2-1 for Sevilla


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Athletic Bilbao in La Liga 11/12: 49 points, goals: 49-52 (-3)

Man Utd in EPL 11/12: 89 points, goals: 89-33 (+56)

Aggregate score in EL R16: 5-3 for Athletic Bilbao


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Atletico Madrid in La Liga 12/13: 76 points, goals: 65-31 (+34)

Chelsea in the EPL 12/13: 75 points, goals: 75-39 (+39)

Score in the SuperCup final: 4-1 for Atletico Madrid


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Atletico Madrid in La Liga 09/10: 47 points, goals: 57-61 (-4)

Liverpool in the EPL 09/10: 63 points, goals: 61-35 (+26)

Aggregate score in EL semi-final: 2-2 (away goals victory for Atleti)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Valencia in La Liga 11/12: 61 points, goals: 59-44 (+15)

Stoke City in the EPL 11/12: 45 points, goals: 36-53 (-17)

Aggregate score in EL R32: 2-0 for Valencia


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Valencia in La Liga 18/19: 61 points, goals: 51-35 (+16)

Man Utd in the EPL 18/19: 66 points, goals: 65-54 (+11)

GS games between the two: 0-0 at Old Trafford and 2-1 win for Valencia at the Mestalla.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Atletico Madrid in La Liga 13/14: 90 points, goals: 77-26 (+51)

Chelsea in the EPL 13/14: 82 points, goals: 71-27 (+44)

Aggregate score in CL semi-final 3-1 for Atleti


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Real Madrid in La Liga 17/18: 76 points, goals: 94-44 (+50)

Liverpool in the EPL 17/18: 75 points, goals: 84-38 (+46)

Real Madrid beat Liverpool 3-1 in the CL final


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Barcelona in La Liga 08/09: 87 points, goals: 105-35 (+70)

Man Utd in the EPL: 90 points, goals: 68-24 (+44)

Barcelona beat Man Utd 2-0 in the CL final


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Barcelona in La Liga 10/11: 96 points, goals: 95-21 (+74)

Man Utd in the EPL 10/11: 80 points, goals: 78-37 (+41)

Barcelona beat Man Utd 3-1 in the CL final


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Atletico Madrid in La Liga 17/18: 79 points, goals: 58-22 (+36)

Arsenal in the EPL 17/18: 63 points, goals: 74-51 (+23)

Aggregate score 2-1 for Atleti in the EL semi-final


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Celta Vigo in La Liga 16/17: 45 points, goals: 53-69 (-16)

Man Utd in the EPL 16/17: 69 points, goals 54-29 (+25)

Aggregate score, 2-1 for Man Utd in the EL semi-final

2nd leg stats: Possession 67% for Celta, shots (on target) : 16 (6) for Celta, 11 (4) for United. Corners 4 for United and 8 for Celta.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sevilla in La Liga 17/18: 58 points, goals: 49-58 (-9)

Liverpool in the EPL 17/18: 75 points, goals: 84-38 (+46)

Liverpool - Sevilla 2-2 & Sevilla - Liverpool 3-3 at the GS


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sevilla in La Liga 15/16: 52 points, goals: 51-50 (+1)

Liverpool in the EPL 15/16: 60 points, goals: 63-50 (+13)

Sevilla beat Liverpool 3-1 in the EL final


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Barcelona in La Liga 13/14: 87 points, goals: 100-33 (+67)

Man City in the EPL 13/14: 86 points, goals: 102-37 (+65)

Aggregate score 4-1 for Barcelona at the CL R16


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Barcelona in La Liga 14/15: 94 points, goals: 110-21 (+89)

Man City in the EPL 14/15: 79 points, goals: 83-38 (+45)

Aggregate score: 3-1 for Barcelona at the CL R16


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Barcelona in La Liga 11/12: 91 points, goals: 114-29 (+85)

Chelsea in the EPL 11/12: 64 points, goals: 65-46 (+19)

Chelsea beat Barcelona 3-2 on aggregate in the CL semi-finals


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Barcelona in La Liga 18/19: 87 points, goals: 90-36 (+54)

Man Utd in the EPL 18/19: 66 points, goals: 65-54 (+11)

Barcelona beat United 4-0 on aggregate at the CL QFs


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Real Madrid in La Liga 19/20: 56 points in 27 games (2.07 ppg) goals: 49-19 (+30)

Man City in the EPL 19/20: 57 points in 28 games (2.04 ppg) goals: 68-31 (+37)

City leading the tie by 2-1.


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Sevilla in La Liga 16/17: 72 points, goals: 69-49 (+20)

Leicester in the EPL 16/17: 44 points, goals: 48-63 (-15)

Leicester win 3-2 on aggregate at the CL R16


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Barcelona in La Liga 09/10: 99 points, goals: 98-24 (+74)

Arsenal in the EPL 09/10: 75 points, goals: 83-41 (+42)

Barcelona win 6-3 on aggregate at the CL QFs


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Barcelona in La Liga 10/11: 96 points, goals: 95-21 (+74)

Arsenal in the EPL 10/11: 68 points, goals: 72-43 (+29)

Barcelona win 4-3 on aggregate at the CL R16


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Barcelona in La Liga 17/18: 93 points, goals: 99-29 (+70)

Chelsea in the EPL 17/18: 70 points, goals 62-38 (+24)

Barcelona win 4-1 on aggregate at the CL R16


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Barcelona in La Liga 08/09: 87 points, goals: 105-35 (+70)

Chelsea in the EPL 08/09: 83 points, goals: 68-24 (+44)

Barcelona win on away goals (1-1)


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Barcelona in La Liga 07/08: 67 points, goals: 76-43 (+33)

Man Utd in the EPL 07/08: 87 points, goals: 80-22 (+58)

Man Utd win 1-0 on aggregate at the CL semi-finals


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Barcelona in La Liga 18/19: 87 points, goals: 90-36 (+54)

Liverpool in the EPL 18/19: 97 points, goals 89-22 (+67)

Liverpool win 4-3 on aggregate at the CL semi-finals


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Valencia in La Liga 18/19: 61 points, goals 51-35 (+16)

Arsenal in the EPL 18/19: 70 points, goals 73-51 (+22)

Arsenal win on aggregate 7-3


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Real Madrid in La Liga 17/18: 76 points, goals: 94-44 (+50)

Man Utd in the EPL 17/18: 81 points, goals: 68-28 (+40)

Real Madrid win the ESC by 2-1


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barcelona in La Liga 16/17: 90 points, goals: 116-37 (+79)

Man City in the EPL 16/17: 78 points, goals: 80-39 (+41)

Barcelona 4-0 win at home, Man City 3-1 win at home (group stage)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Barcelona in La Liga 15/16: 91 points, goals: 112-29 (+83)

Arsenal in the EPL 15/16: 71 points, goals: 65-36 (+29)

Barcelona win 5-1 on aggregate at the CL R16


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What conclusions can one draw from these stats?

 

[Horatio]

If it weren’t for the neat formatting I would have confused it for a BBZ post.