What's Wrong with FC Barcelona?

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

Long post ahead, just thought I'd give you a warning now while you have the chance to brace yourself lol :tata1:

 

[Behrox]

In a nutshell :cesc: plus Barmateuo

 

[El_e8]

I could do this if I were Barca player and opponent camps at goal.
Not to mention Tata wanted to be more direct and first one to cry about this was Xavi.

 

[instinct]

- Board ( and Bartomeu)
- coach
- lack of depth
- lack of motivation
- lack of CB's
- lack of luck
- lack of ideas and vision
- lack of fresh blood

 

[serghei]

What happened? Led by an incompetent board, the club did not take the required measures when the team showed the first signs of decline -- and that is since Pep's last season. And when they did take some measures they were bad ones, like making Guardiola leave and letting Abidal go without buying a CB.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

I'd say a good 80-85% of our problems right now have to do with our completely incompetent board. Rosell/Bart and Zubi's management of this club has been nothing short of laughable. Our current defensive problems being just one of many other problems (which I won't go into, but you all know them) that are not only blatantly obvious now but there were certainly red flags in the past that any competent board would have addressed by now.

Compound that by two untested and unambitious coaches with a lack of passion or fresh ideas and you can't be surprised at where we are at. While I do think things would have been different had Pique and Valdes been healthy, I still think we would have been found out by either Chelsea or Bayern if we had made it past Atletico. But particularly the non-nonchalant attitude from Tito and Tata has been a big part of the lack of hunger or motivation from the team.

Other factors like our aging squad, a lack of depth and our formation getting stale have played their part but I think particularly the course Tito set this team on, it isn't surprising that things haven't progressed much.

However...

I do think that even with our current board and even with our transfer ban, if we can deal this summer, we can at least be close to where we used to be. Its going to be hard to knock Bayern off their pedestal at the moment but I think with the right coach, some fresh blood and a fresh tactical facelift, we can at least be on par and competitive with Bayern.

One thing is for certain, a new coach is necessary. Tata hasn't brought enough innovation to the squad and I think combined with his tactical naivety since he is new to the European game, he isn't what we need. Hope him all the best and I don't think that he is a bad coach at all- he was better than Tito- but it just hasn't worked here.

The Klopp rumors are intriguing, particularly if he brings Reus and Hummels with him along the way. I don't think its a terrible choice but it is risky; I don't think that just because Dortmund play similar to our style that he would be as successful as he would here. Could he command the respect of Messi and co.?

My choices would either be Frank de Boer or Luis Enrique though, obviously since they both know Barca. Either pick would bring back some passion, drive and hunger back into the squad which is a key part of the equation. You can have the deepest squad with the best tactical plan but if the squad isn't motivated to dominate and win every game, it doesn't matter who you have coaching the team, it won't succeed. Ask Mou about his time in Madrid if you need an example.

However, I think Frank de Boer would be the best fit for us, even better than Klopp. Although Klopp has shown he can battle tactically with the best of the best and he would provide a nice link for us to poach Dortmund, I'd prefer Frank mainly because he has a lot of the qualities similar to Pep. Ajax are comfortably top of Eredivise and they showed their quality in the CL this season. They were very sharp, energetic and tactically organized. For reasons I will get to later, I think tactically speaking, de Boer will fit this team better than Klopp will. Its his experience with our club culture in the past and the way Ajax press with an extremely fluid 4-3-3 would suit us nicely. They adjust accordingly to the teams they play and have different game plans depending on whom they play. If you aren't convinced of his credentials, the dude has led Ajax to 3 domestic league titles (soon to be fourth most likely) in a row. Also, here is a very good article about his tactics: http://thinkfootball.co.uk/archives/13987

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

PART 2

Tiki-taka is far from dead, regardless of what people think. Bayern are literally playing exactly how we used to, and they continue to dominate. The Dortmund loss was I'm sure due to complacency. If Bayern can do it and still win, so can we and considering we still have the best players on the planet possible to play this system, I will never understand why everyone on here seems to think we have to play like Madrid now.

On the pitch, my biggest problem with the team is our lack of organization. We do not press in an organized manner, we lack a discernible shape too often and our tactical naivety is costing us dearly. Without tactical and positional discipline, tiki-taka falls apart and we lose offensive incisiveness along with defensive organization which too many teams are exploiting nowadays.

Also, I think our formation has become too stale. Our conventional 4-3-3 with Alba and Dani bombing forward and Messi in the center with Xavi, Iniesta and Cesc all passing the ball around so much like its going out of style, everyone knows what to expect. A key part of what made Pep's time here so effective is that it caught everybody off-guard, particularly Dani's then (relatively, certainly not the first) revolutionary style of playing RB with his overlaps. So I think if we facelifted our formation and rethought how this team is organized, we can regain that tactical upper-hand.

Here is what I propose:

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

Make your football formation with this11.com

I am of the belief that switching to three out and out CBs at the back is the way to go, tiki-taka 2.0 if you will. The ironic thing is, I sort of modified it off of Cruyff's old system since he played similarly with 3 in the back so in some ways, its a return to Cruyff's tactics.

My arrows in particular show the defensive runs because I am sure the main concern of a lot of people on here will be that 3 at the back means we will be defensively exposed. Wrong. Juventus have been playing with 3 CBs at the back since Conte has arrived and they currently have one of the best defensive records in Europe. Only Bayern, PSG, Lille and Roma have better records and they are tied with Atletico with 22 goals against so far this season. The beauty of this formation is that it can easily flow into a very defensive 4-3-3 and at times even a 5-2-3, as seen in the following:


Find your football tactics app at this11.com

Ignoring the mess around Messi, if you follow the arrows on this one, it signifies the freedom each player has to go forward from that shape to allow us to go back into our original formation. In particular, this would give Messi and Alexis a lot more freedom and space tactically that suits how they play. Messi, obviously at the center of everything and with help up top, should be in the perfect position to maximize his attributes. But its Alexis's new role that I think would break open our game. I think that instead of Alves making those late runs and wasting possession with a sloppy cross, putting Alexis into his role could give us exactly what we need. Imagine what Alexis would do with the amount of space Alves gets nowadays? Alexis struggles because his space to play and move is extremely confined on the right between Messi and Alves. In Tata's current setup, he is bound to one area of the pitch which doesn't utilize his electric pace.

Particularly if he is making late, 2nd wave runs after defenses are already pegged back, I think he would be infinitely more dangerous than Alves is now and would probably score a lot more often. While he would take up more defensive responsibilities with this role, I think it would suit him perfectly and he already shows a willingness to provide defensive support and effort now. With Bartra supporting him on the outside and the pressure from the RCM, he should have cover to ensure we aren't exposed on the right.

That is the key, 3 CBs that are strictly at task with neutralizing counter attacks and winning the ball back quickly is much more effective defensively and suits our pressing style nicely. It would allow us to run the trap much easier with immediate pressure from the CBs high up the pitch, trying to win the ball back and redistribute as quickly as possible. Tack on Busi's tactical nous, Alba's recovery runs due to his speed and work rate and late support from Alexis and the other AMs, and we would have everything we need to out press teams in the MF while also being able to neutralize counters much quicker and efficiently with more defensive cover. In all reality, while it may seem counter-intuitive, this setup is actually more defensive and conservative than any of our past line-ups with 2 attacking full backs and only 2 CBs.

"But why don't we just play a 4-2-3-1? Its what Spain play, and everyone else seems to run it so well..."

Since I said I would explain more in the previous post, this is precisely the reason why tactically speaking I prefer de Boer to Klopp. I am afraid that Klopp will try to run a similar 4-2-3-1 that he runs at Dortmund with us and I am not convinced it would work out as well as so many imagine:


Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com

The biggest problem with it is that, particularly with the players I am sure Klopp would play with, we would be extremely narrow and would still be tactically vulnerable in the same ways that we are now. Even with a new striker up top, Gundogan as a DM next to Busi or even Iniesta in the middle behind Messi, it still wouldn't be too much of a difference of what we have now. Alba and Alves would still have to provide width support in attack and that leaves our CBs simply too exposed to counters nowadays. Particularly with the way Atletico are setup (the opposing team in this diagram is setup almost exactly like Atletico), the MF would be too cluttered with a lack of natural width and again, Messi, Iniesta and co. would continue to be starved of space.

The modern game is increasingly shifting tactically to flooding the middle so the way to overcome that is to find a way to dominate the wings. We already posses the skill necessary to dominate the middle regardless of who we play. A big reason why teams play a 4-2-3-1 now is to provide stability and numbers to win the MF battle. However, if we can stretch teams on the outside and stretch the space in between their lines, it will open up the center and allow Messi and Iniesta the space to dominate. It was our ability to be effective down the wings, not necessarily Messi in the center, that made Pep's system flow so well and it is that lack of width that is causing us to look so toothless nowadays against buses. A system that brings back some width to our play, I think, is the key to breaking down the bus formula:


Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com

Sorry about the lines around the ST, not sure why the drawing thing spazzed out like that...

Anyway, in attack this formation has loads of potential. Someone earlier scoffed at the idea of Rafinha playing in the Xavi role due to him featuring at times at Celta as RW. While he does feature more in the RCM role than on the RW, I think its his ability to excel on the wing is precisely what could be the answer to our stagnant MF at times. Iniesta is a much bigger threat in the center because of his ability to overload on the wing and pull apart defenses with his dribbling ability outside. Combine that with his vision in the center of the pitch and ability to dominate possession, its the reason why I think he in some ways is even better than Messi. I know Messi gets all the acclaim because of his goals but Iniesta is just as much as a genius on the ball and on the pitch as Messi is. So if you have two AMs who can both control possession in the center, can beat 1-3 players at any time and can provide overlap support on the wings, there is very little you can do to stop that. Its why I have always wanted Rafinha more than any other CM.

Furthermore, this system would also open up the possibilities to a devastating counter. Off the break, both Messi and whomever the other attacker be (Neymar/Aguero, etc.) would be an immediate threat from this setup but I think its Alexis who will increasingly be our counter man. With his pace, he could make late runs after their defense has been dragged out and he would have literally acres of space to run into.

With a proper CB and #9, this would be extremely hard to beat. It puts a majority of our players in positions that best suit how they play, it would free up space to allow a more direct approach with space for players like Alexis and Neymar to exploit but also allow us to still have tiki-taka triangles with defensive cover. We would still have the numerical advantage in the MF, and with someone like Aguero up front and assuming Rafinha does as well as I imagine he would in that role, it would be the perfect evolution of our game.

While Aguero might be a bit too far fetched, I think a out and out center striker to help support Messi through the center is vital to getting the best out of him again and after a CB, I think another striker should be our next priority. A defensive fullback wouldn't hurt either.

Sorry I know that is a lot but to conclude, all I think we need is a coach with some vision, tactical nous and drive with the chance to deal in the summer and even with our current boards incompetence, we could at least be back to the level we once were. I also think it would be a disservice to immediately kick Xavi, Cesc and Alves to the curb. All of them are still world-class players but I think some competition and the current way we are going about our tactics is why they are struggling right now. With a fresh squad and a fresh coach with some fresh tactics, we can be competitive again. I am convinced Frank de Boer would be exactly what we need, but a Klopp, Enrique or even Martinez wouldn't hurt either.

Its certainly the end of an era, but remember what happened last time when we transitioned from one dead era to another? Who's to say we can't make a similar turnaround twice?

Thoughts and comments are appreciated and thanks for taking the time to read my mini article lol.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

Very interesting stuff. I like your ideas. I agree we shouldn't sell Xavi but if we are to continue to be competitive, one of the most important things the coach has to do is have the balls to tell Xavi he has to be a substitute and only start maybe 20 matches next season. If we continue to start the same midfield every match next season then it could be an absolute disaster...

 

[Kohe321]

Really, really good post i_bleed_blaugrana! Thanks for taking the time to write it out, I also really like your ideas here. I think this would be a very interesting and good way for us to continue tactically. It seems to me this would allow us to meet the new way that teams defend against us much more effectively than we do now, I'm sort of imagining the potency of the 2009-2010 era when reading through it.

As you say, the way we run our midfield and attack right now, with a ton of sideways passing like a game of handball, has been figured out completely and we need to adapt our style. There is a constant tug of war between offensive and defensive tactics in the world of football, and we need to evolve with the game. The last four years we've become stagnant and it shows, we have no real answer to the way for example Atletico played against us in the CL quarter finals. To keep evolving requires real continuity that the board is responsible for keeping up, which is something that Rosell and Co. has utterly failed in doing.

 

[klc123]

I don't think the sideways passing has being figured out, I just think players need to more effectively get around the man in possession to give him options.

I_bleed_Blagrana, I really like your ideas, although I think the initial formation lacks as much width as we could use, and also isn't very well balanced at the back.
This is how I see Barca playing at the moment.

Use this11.com for tactics for football

You can see how little width we have.
It's also easy for teams to squeeze Messi out of the game, and minimize how much influence Iniesta can have. ignore the third defensive midfielder I put in by accident.



Use this11.com for tactics for football

This is the shape we used to take up with Guardiola, we don't spread out this effectively anymore, in my opinion.
The arrows indicate player movement, and in games where we are controlling possession exceptionally well, Alves and Alba can take turns advancing as far forwards as where I have put Neymar and Pedro, and then pedro and neymar pinch in. The aim of this formation is to make the pitch as big as possible for out passing game.

This would be our tactical change for when we need a goal against a team defending deep...


Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics

Would allow us to really press forwards and break down defences. key feature is that it retains width, but also liberates messi giving him more space, as well as xavi and iniesta. Busqets would sit deep and provide extra security until we get the goal.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Sanchez up front is kind of wasteful if you ask me. He doesn't have the confidence to pull the trigger. I think the 2nd to last diagram with Messi dropping deep would also suffice in a parked bus defense with him also moving laterally across the box to look for the through ball. The most important part of that diagram for me is the wingers taking on their markers out wide and stretching the defense, which we are starting to see with Neymar. We've had to resort to Alba pushing up so this will likely keep Alba back in position and provide defensive support. Something of note too is that in that same diagram, Messi would have to do A LOT of running, something I don't see him doing honestly.. unless a fierce coach came in.

 

[klc123]

Sanchez up front is kind of wasteful if you ask me. He doesn't have the confidence to pull the trigger. I think the 2nd to last diagram with Messi dropping deep would also suffice in a parked bus defense with him also moving laterally across the box to look for the through ball. The most important part of that diagram for me is the wingers taking on their markers out wide and stretching the defense, which we are starting to see with Neymar. We've had to resort to Alba pushing up so this will likely keep Alba back in position and provide defensive support. Something of note too is that in that same diagram, Messi would have to do A LOT of running, something I don't see him doing honestly.. unless a fierce coach came in.

Sanchez was just an example number 9. He plays the role well for Chile, so he would be our current best option in that position in my opinion, although a replacement would definitely be preferred. David Villa would have been ideal, but there you go.

Edit:
My thinking behind the last formation is that messi has said before that he enjoyed more space when david villa played in front of him. I think this is a good thing, but sacrificing a right winger to achieve that isn't as good, because then you lose width.

Having a true 9 in front of messi does a few things. It occupies defenders, leaving less to defend messi. It also means that when messi receives the ball, he is still relatively far fowards whilst still being in space, and also has team mates in all directions around him.

 

[darthvader7888]

PART 2

Tiki-taka is far from dead, regardless of what people think. Bayern are literally playing exactly how we used to, and they continue to dominate. The Dortmund loss was I'm sure due to complacency. If Bayern can do it and still win, so can we and considering we still have the best players on the planet possible to play this system, I will never understand why everyone on here seems to think we have to play like Madrid now.

The thing is, will tiki-taka work with any coach other than Pep? Hell, would any coach besides Pep play tiki-taka? There aren't that many that do.

Tiki-taka does work with VDB, but he still does some things differently from Pep (i.e. 2 DMs).

Tiki-taka is not dead, I'm just not sure there's a coach available who'd make it work for us. But Pep did say that he'll leave Bayern if they don't want him, etc, etc, so there is a little hope. If he were to leave (which still has like a 1% chance of happening), I'd take him back in a heartbeat (though we'd need a new board for him to return).

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

I don't think the sideways passing has being figured out, I just think players need to more effectively get around the man in possession to give him options.

I_bleed_Blagrana, I really like your ideas, although I think the initial formation lacks as much width as we could use, and also isn't very well balanced at the back.


This would be our tactical change for when we need a goal against a team defending deep...


Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics

Would allow us to really press forwards and break down defences. key feature is that it retains width, but also liberates messi giving him more space, as well as xavi and iniesta. Busqets would sit deep and provide extra security until we get the goal.

Far too much space on the wings behind Alba and Alves on there. We would literally be playing with only one pure defender which isn't nearly balanced enough in the modern tactical era. Case and point, Ancelotti's 4-3-3 would severely stretch that formation due to the late runs of Di Maria and Modric. If we were somehow able to stop Madrid's initial wave of BBC, there would be so much space in behind on the 2nd wave that we would get picked apart by good counter-attacking teams.

Your on to the right idea of putting Messi behind a striker, spreading the pitch and playing wider. This quasi 4-3-3 that is really just a 4-3-1-2 with Cesc as the 1 is excruciatingly narrow and is a big reason why we look so disjointed and toothless in attack. My formation utilizes Messi in a similar position (I think we got a glimpse of the direction we should be headed after the 4-0 home against Milan last year) but its extremely adaptive and fluid in offense and defense. It has width across the pitch and spreads the play in the midfield that allows Messi more room to play in between the lines.

My problem with our current shape is how two out of our back four play incredibly forward. I think it is unsustainable and is the biggest problem with us defensively speaking.

This system does all of the things the false 9 system does but has much more defensive solidity than our current system. It also allows Messi's supporting attackers (Neymar/new 9, Alexis etc.) a lot more space and freedom to roam and attack, particularly Alexis, which suits their playing styles while having a shape that suits our attacking style. Thoughts?

The thing is, will tiki-taka work with any coach other than Pep? Hell, would any coach besides Pep play tiki-taka? There aren't that many that do.

Tiki-taka does work with VDB, but he still does some things differently from Pep (i.e. 2 DMs).

Tiki-taka is not dead, I'm just not sure there's a coach available who'd make it work for us. But Pep did say that he'll leave Bayern if they don't want him, etc, etc, so there is a little hope. If he were to leave (which still has like a 1% chance of happening), I'd take him back in a heartbeat (though we'd need a new board for him to return).

I think FdB is a worthy candidate.

I am unsure of whether or not we need a new shape altogether or whether or if its the players we have playing the positions now. Case and point, Iniesta on the LW, Alves' steady decline this year, Cesc, too many players are either hampering how others play or are too redundant to what we have now.

On paper, with either Hummels for Bartra and a true striker up top like Aguero, there isn't any evidence to suggest that we couldn't stop playing the false 9 system, particularly when we don't have Alves wasting half of our moves with a poor cross:


Make your football formation with this11.com

There isn't a lot wrong with this setup, its just defensively makes us so susceptible to a break down the wings, something many teams have exploited against us. The biggest problem is that if our AMs start to spread wide with our attacking fullbacks already forward, it leaves Busi with too much to do at times to defend through the center and he gets overwhelmed, particularly when the opposing team has a spell on the ball.

I just like the balance a 3-1-4-2 would provide, with width in attack, the holy diamond in the center and solid defensive cover that is more suited to neutralizing counter attacks with an aggressive approach to defending. Overall, with the way we play, it just makes more sense to play with less defenders at the back and press higher up the pitch. It opens up a lot of new attacking shapes that would cause buses nightmares.

Right now, Pep is slowly trying to switch Bayern into a 3-1-3-3 as teams begin to park the bus against them more and more and I think something similar like this wouldn't be bad either:


Use this11.com for tactics for football

While certainly less balanced defensively and relying a lot on Neymar and Pedro providing defensive cover against the opponents wingers, a setup like this would be even harder to defend against.

All and all, I think a more aggressive, offensive formations that suit our tactics to press high up the pitch is the direction our new coach should take this team.