What's Wrong with FC Barcelona?

[serghei]

Messi and iniesta dont do enough defensive work for this lineup to work. The DM will get overwhelmed and we will suffer way too many counter attacks

There are matches and matches. This 4-1-4-1 could work great against a team that does little attacking. 4-3-2-1 is the more balanced system, I agree, but subbing a DM with a CAM will turn on the pressure if we are chasing the game.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

A 4-1-4-1 is practically a traditional 4-3-3. I also am not a huge fan of playing Messi as part of a 3 man MF. He needs to be in the hole with at least two players doing defensive work behind him so like its been said, a double pivot with him in front wouldn't be bad.

But again, that phases out either Neymar or Iniesta which are big players to exclude.

As far as Vidal, for what he offers, I think we can get the same thing from Rafinha offensively and Mascherano defensively. He just isn't that necessary in my opinion when you have Cesc and Rafinha. Plus, I think we should be pushing Cesc back instead of forward. Cesc doesn't work defensively because he mainly plays as a forward. Put him deeper and he is willing to do the dirty work.

I wouldn't mind us experimenting with a 4-2-3-1 with this line-up:

TS
Alves-Bartra-Hummels/Pique-Alba
Busi-Mascherano
Alexis-Messi-Neymar
Aguero.

Like Ajax_Barca said, Aguero's friendship with Messi is key. Their link-up play would be a joy to behold, plus with the double threat they carry, it would leave room for Neymar and Alexis to play into.

I still like a 3-1-4-2 more though. It has just as much balance as a 4-2-3-1 and it doesn't force out Iniesta and/or Neymar either.

 

[Behrox]

A 4-1-4-1 is practically a traditional 4-3-3. I also am not a huge fan of playing Messi as part of a 3 man MF. He needs to be in the hole with at least two players doing defensive work behind him so like its been said, a double pivot with him in front wouldn't be bad.

But again, that phases out either Neymar or Iniesta which are big players to exclude.

As far as Vidal, for what he offers, I think we can get the same thing from Rafinha offensively and Mascherano defensively. He just isn't that necessary in my opinion when you have Cesc and Rafinha. Plus, I think we should be pushing Cesc back instead of forward. Cesc doesn't work defensively because he mainly plays as a forward. Put him deeper and he is willing to do the dirty work.

I wouldn't mind us experimenting with a 4-2-3-1 with this line-up:

TS
Alves-Bartra-Hummels/Pique-Alba
Busi-Mascherano
Alexis-Messi-Neymar
Aguero.

Like Ajax_Barca said, Aguero's friendship with Messi is key. Their link-up play would be a joy to behold, plus with the double threat they carry, it would leave room for Neymar and Alexis to play into.

I still like a 3-1-4-2 more though. It has just as much balance as a 4-2-3-1 and it doesn't force out Iniesta and/or Neymar either.

That will barely last half the season with Kun as injury prone as Adriano

 

[serghei]

@i_bleed_blaugrana, the thing with Messi is that he can't be a classic 9. I've watched some of his old games with Pep and the difference between that Messi and this Messi is this: 2010-12 Messi -- post Eto'o Messi -- was also dropping in midfield to generate actions, but when the ball left his foot he usually attacked the box and become the classic 9. He had moments when he seemed to move faster than the ball. I remember the Madrid goal in the CL. It was like Messi -> Xavi -> Afellay -> Messi. So, Messi got from midfield to classic 9 in a matter of seconds. He couldn't be marked because he was in the box for like 3-4 seconds. His presences in the box were very brief, but very very intense.

Now, he's a lot more immobile, making him easier to mark.

 

[Ursegor]

TS
Alves-Bartra-Hummels/Pique-Alba
Busi-Mascherano
Alexis-Messi-Neymar
Aguero.

lmao DAT tactical wizardry. Harass Busquets and the entire build-up is on Mascherano with Messi dropping 60 yards to see the ball .

These sort of Mourinho lineups only work when your gameplan is to sit deep, give the opponent the ball and swarm out and counter everytime the opponent loses the ball. A couple of lost games and people already go apeshit crazy and want the complete opposite of the entire Barca philosophy.

What is wrong with Barca is quite obvious. The hunger and workrate is not there anymore. Just watch the most recent game against Athletic Bilbao. Only after Athletic scored the entire team suddenly runs its lungs out, spurred on by the forthcoming embarrement to lose a 4 consecutive game infront of the home crowd. Even Mascherano turns into Beckenbauer and Alves nutmegs players for fun again. A couple years ago that sort of spark was there CONSISTENTLY over 90 minutes and in almost every game. Nowadays it isn't. Lineups and formations are completely irrelevant at this point. Last year we got owned with Pedro and Alexis upfront. This season we got owned with Pedro and Alexis on the bench and 4 midfielders in the CL.

Buying a couple of defenders wouldn't do any harm though, that's for sure.

 

[Ghostmaster]

lmao DAT tactical wizardry. Harass Busquets and the entire build-up is on Mascherano with Messi dropping 60 yards to see the ball .

These sort of Mourinho lineups only work when your gameplan is to sit deep, give the opponent the ball and swarm out and counter everytime the opponent loses the ball. A couple of lost games and people already go apeshit crazy and want the complete opposite of the entire Barca philosophy.

What is wrong with Barca is quite obvious. The hunger and workrate is not there anymore. Just watch the most recent game against Athletic Bilbao. Only after Athletic scored the entire team suddenly runs its lungs out, spurred on by the forthcoming embarrement to lose a 4 consecutive game infront of the home crowd. Even Mascherano turns into Beckenbauer and Alves nutmegs players for fun again. A couple years ago that sort of spark was there CONSISTENTLY over 90 minutes and in almost every game. Nowadays it isn't. Lineups and formations are completely irrelevant at this point. Last year we got owned with Pedro and Alexis upfront. This season we got owned with Pedro and Alexis on the bench and 4 midfielders in the CL.

Buying a couple of defenders wouldn't do any harm though, that's for sure.

They are too old to run like they used to back in day

 

[desoe]

Messi is good friends with Aguero and he maybe just what we need to spark our attack. Sell Neymar & Alexis if we have to because while both wingers can dribble well neither can match Aguero's finishing.

Aguero doesn't make sense until we don't change our entire formation and I won't even try to comment the "sell Neymar" part

 

[BarçAjax8]

Aguero doesn't make sense until we don't change our entire formation and I won't even try to comment the "sell Neymar" part

lol Why would we have to change our entire formation to accommodate Kun? He is a mobile complete forward who can attack and score from anywhere around the box (just like David Villa).

In this video you can see the majority of Aguero's attacks begin from the left flank and he then moves in and attacks the goal. Messi can continue at False 9 and having a forward he has a friendship with could reignite him to become motivated again.

I have nothing against Neymar, it was his first season in a new everything (country, league, culture, system) but his price tag (120+ mil) requires Aguero/Suarez level finishing.

 

[Chainsaw]

Kun is awesome. Not so his fragility.

 

[darthvader7888]

lol Why would we have to change our entire formation to accommodate Kun? He is a mobile complete forward who can attack and score from anywhere around the box (just like David Villa).

In this video you can see the majority of Aguero's attacks begin from the left flank and he then moves in and attacks the goal. Messi can continue at False 9 and having a forward he has a friendship with could reignite him to become motivated again.

I have nothing against Neymar, it was his first season in a new everything (country, league, culture, system) but his price tag (120+ mil) requires Aguero/Suarez level finishing.

So it's 120 now?

@i_bleed_blaugrana, the thing with Messi is that he can't be a classic 9. I've watched some of his old games with Pep and the difference between that Messi and this Messi is this: 2010-12 Messi -- post Eto'o Messi -- was also dropping in midfield to generate actions, but when the ball left his foot he usually attacked the box and become the classic 9. He had moments when he seemed to move faster than the ball. I remember the Madrid goal in the CL. It was like Messi -> Xavi -> Afellay -> Messi. So, Messi got from midfield to classic 9 in a matter of seconds. He couldn't be marked because he was in the box for like 3-4 seconds. His presences in the box were very brief, but very very intense.

Maybe he was instructed to play like that by Pep, and no longer gets instructed to do so?

 

[BarçAjax8]

So it's 120 now?

Here's a breakdown of what it took to get Neymar. What it doesn't include is the 13 million we paid the Spanish Government not to go forward with Neygate.

 

[Alex-kun]

for me the problem is was the mentality of some players, wrapped very concentrated during the race, often the same Messi walks in the middle of the field without doing anything, this has led to poor results, then several injuries and a defense careless we were penalized in some matches

 

[darthvader7888]

Here's a breakdown of what it took to get Neymar. What it doesn't include is the 13 million we paid the Spanish Government not to go forward with Neygate.

Why do people include his salary? By that logic, Bale probably cost 150m+...

 

[ebieymjunior]

In the end, I think the thing (football unrelated) that hurt them most was the transfer ban issue, and on the pitch obviously Valdes' injury.
That gives you hope for next season. Not only do we get ter Stegan, but we have a bunch of B team players waiting to be promoted these next few years and in every area of the field.
There's Masip, Ondoa, Ié, Grimaldo, Godswill, Samper, Suarez, Halilovic, Kaptoum, Munir, Adama, arguably Bagnack and Sandro Ramirez/Dongou as well, in addition to having Bartra, Montoya, Rafinha, Roberto and Deulofeu. That's insane if you ask me.

 

[ManusXavi]

Yeah, and that's I think the bigger thing that's missing from our attack, not a number nine or striker or whatever, but movement.

Quote from Semi-neutral in the Sanchez page I personally quite liked. I feel some things do not need to be complicated. More play that involves the forwards playing as 'runners' I personally would like to see