Which CL was more undeserved: Chelsea 2012 or RM 2016?

[Alarcón]

Well somebody is mad and jealous while claiming that you prefer your double.
[tw]737276753249456129[/tw]
Most wins,most clean sheets, best goal difference,least losses. Cristiano alone scoring more goals than 26 of the 31 teams,1 goal less than the runner up(ATM) scored all-together.

LOL

 

[BBZ8800]

Madrid were just lucky they only had shit opponents up to the final.

Real won against crappy Roma in 1/8 2:0 and 2:0.
Barca played 1:1 and 6:1 against the same crappy opponent, drawing one match and conceding 2 goals.

Real won against crappy Man. City 1:0 and 0:0.
When we won against them in 2014 and 2015, our displays were hailed as mature and very good against a very, very, veeery strong and rich opponent.

Real even played against very strong Psg in a group stage, 1:0 and 0:0.
When we played them, well, Psg was the 4th strongest team in Europe, after Barca, Bayern, Real and Atletico.

Real won against Atletico in a final.
A team which knocked us out and against whom we weren't able to score a goal in 11 vs 11 for 135 minutes.
Barca:Atletico 11 vs 11, score was 0:3 after 135 minutes.
We are toothless and totally neutralized.

So, let's make a list of Barcaforum's ranking of teams:
1. Barcelona
2. Bayern
3. Real
4. Atletico
5. Psg

Let's see how Real actually played against them, or especially this spring:
1. Real vs Barca in a spring:
-- Real was much better in La liga, managed to neutralize -10 points deficit
-- won against us 2:1 at Camp Nou (without luck, without help from Uefa. They were just better than us.)

2. Real vs Bayern:
-- they didn't play since Atletico knocked out Bayern

3. Real vs Atletico:
-- Real won against a team who knocked out 1st and 2nd best team in Europe, Barca and Bayern
-- Barca conceded 3 goals against Atletico in 180 minutes
-- Bayern conceded 2 goals in 180 minutes
-- Real conceded 1 goal in 120 minutes

-- Real was the only one who actually managed to knock out Atletico (true, on penalties, but still...)

4. Real vs Psg:
-- 1:0 and 0:0

So, basically, Real vs Top 5 teams in Europe this spring:
Real > Barca
Real > Atletico
Real > Psg
Barca and Bayern KO'd themselves. Is it Real's fault that we couldn't score a goal vs Atletico in 11 vs 11?

So, Real was lucky with draws and everything.
But at the end of the day, against whomever they played, they were better in the end (especially if we count only this spring, under Zidane).

Also, their clean sheet record is very impressive in this season's CL:
1. Shakhtar 4:0
2. Malmo 2:0
3. Paris 0:0
4. Paris 1:0
5. Malmo 8:0
6. Roma 2:0
7. Roma 2:0
8. Wolfsburg 3:0
9. Man City 0:0
10. Man City 0:0

Conceded:
1. Shakhtar 4:3
2. Wolfsburg 0:2
3. Atletico 1:1

Barca, 10 matches, conceded goals:
1. Roma 1:1
2. Roma 6:1
3. Bayer 2:1
4. Bayer 1:1
5. Arsenal 3:1
6. Atletico 10-men 2:1
7. Atletico 11-men 0:2

Real was better than any opponent in La Liga.
Under Zidane they have 17-2-1: 53 points out of possible 60 points in 20 rounds.

Barcelona have 16-1-3 in the last 20 rounds, or 49 points out of possible 60 points.
Real 53 > Barcelona 49

So:
1. Real won more points than Barca in La liga in spring
2. Real won against Barca at Camp Nou 2:1
3. Real won against Psg and Atletico out of top5 teams in a CL
-- other 2 teams, Barca and Bayern kicked themselves out
4. they were more motivated than us in a CL
5. their defense seems like conceding much less than our team
6. they know how to score a goal against Atletico's 11men in a Champions league decisive match, unlike our players
7. they have never lost in Europe in their history, against any Spanish teams (except against Barca). They are unbeatable for all other Spanish teams...

For the end, I hate Real Madrid.
I would change anything in football in order so that we could have lifted a Champions league trophy.

But these sour grapes posts (not you Alarcon), but a lot of posters, are just hilarious.

If Real is so poor and lucky, why are they better than us (who are so good and awesome) on so many statistical data, especially this spring?

 

[Flavia]

Lol, bbz. If Barça got Wolfsburg, and than city, we'd also make it to the final. And if rm got Atlético, I don't think they'd beat them in 2 legs. Rm didn't play great games, or was a force that would crush their opponents, in any part of last season. They were just lucky with their draws.

 

[MaxY]

Real won against crappy Roma in 1/8 2:0 and 2:0.

An actual rational Barcelona fan,is this real life?
But but we got stronger opponents *cries*. Bohoo,it's life. If life throws lemons on you,make a freaking lemonade. Sometimes you'll get lucky ,sometimes you won't. Why are you using so many If's Flavia? There are no If's in football,that's the part of the beautiful game. And about us not beating ATM over 2 legs,we always beat Atletico in UCL. Every single time. They have more chance vs us over 1 leg because we're the better team.
Did we get lucky with the draw? Yeah,we did. It happens. Did we beat anyone who came our way ? Yeah,we did.
It's your own fault that you got kicked out by Atletico. Just like it's Bayerns fault.

 

[Flavia]

An actual rational Barcelona fan,is this real life?
But but we got stronger opponents *cries*. Bohoo,it's life. If life throws lemons on you,make a freaking lemonade. Sometimes you'll get lucky ,sometimes you won't. Why are you using so many If's Flavia? There are no If's in football,that's the part of the beautiful game. And about us not beating ATM over 2 legs,we always beat Atletico in UCL. Every single time. They have more chance vs us over 1 leg because we're the better team.
Did we get lucky with the draw? Yeah,we did. It happens. Did we beat anyone who came our way ? Yeah,we did.
It's your own fault that you got kicked out by Atletico. Just like it's Bayerns fault.

It surely happens to get lucky. But you got so much of it, it was the actual reason why you won it. Not because you were the better team of the tournament. Rm never got to play a decent side. Matches against Wolfsburg and city were just a testament to that. It surely there wasn't any "beautiful game" either. Just plain boring displays.

 

[Gaudi]

An actual rational Barcelona fan,is this real life?
But but we got stronger opponents *cries*. Bohoo,it's life. If life throws lemons on you,make a freaking lemonade. Sometimes you'll get lucky ,sometimes you won't. Why are you using so many If's Flavia? There are no If's in football,that's the part of the beautiful game. And about us not beating ATM over 2 legs,we always beat Atletico in UCL. Every single time. They have more chance vs us over 1 leg because we're the better team.
Did we get lucky with the draw? Yeah,we did. It happens. Did we beat anyone who came our way ? Yeah,we did.
It's your own fault that you got kicked out by Atletico. Just like it's Bayerns fault.

It can be hard without squeezer and a glass at least.

 

[Morten]

Wait, didnt Barca get knocked out on their asses against Atletico? The "amazing" Bayern as well, with the "greatest coach ever"?
Well, we are the only team to "beat" Atletico in CL, so yeah...

 

[gasgas]

It surely happens to get lucky. But you got so much of it, it was the actual reason why you won it. Not because you were the better team of the tournament. Rm never got to play a decent side. Matches against Wolfsburg and city were just a testament to that. It surely there wasn't any "beautiful game" either. Just plain boring displays.

the competition is all about a team who beats all its opponents till they win the trophy
you may be the best team, play the most attractive football with double through balls per pass, over the head outside of the boot passes to create your 100th chance of the game, but if you don't beat your opponent, you don't deserve anything

same as Chelsea, luck or not, they beat their opponent
so they deserve it

these other things are all subjective and a matter of taste

 

[Flavia]

the competition is all about a team who beats all its opponents till they win the trophy
you may be the best team, play the most attractive football with double through balls per pass, over the head outside of the boot passes to create your 100th chance of the game, but if you don't beat your opponent, you don't deserve anything

same as Chelsea, luck or not, they beat their opponent
so they deserve it

these other things are all subjective and a matter of taste

That's a very, very shallow analysis. The current format of the cl allows for luck to play a bigger part than it should(or the lack of it). You really can't say this season's CL was as hard to win as it was for Barça in 14-15, for example. Barça had absolutely no luck in the draw then, nor we had it this season. Allowing a game like bayern - juve in the round of 16 is also another point to show how bad this current system is. It really takes a lot from the tournament when it happens. Juve got out then, while bad teams like wolfburg and city went on.

rm got a very easy path until the final this time, due to luck only, and then won in a penalty shoot out, which is also a lottery. The system libertadores use is the best of the ones I know. Makes the group stage more intense, and the path is already there, so no luck involved. Decreases the opportunity for corruption as well. But then there wouldn't be those boring draw events, which I think those uefa guys love. It's a pity, really.

 

[vlad]

real had been very lucky, even chelsea 2012 had stronger way to final, but hey, luck is part of the football, also referee decisions, they made mistakes, so its stupid crying about referees all the time, and i mean that for all barca and real madrid fans.

 

[Morten]

Maybe some changes could be made, but no drastic ones, like a league play or something. Part of the reason CL is so magic is the unpredictability, its all about the moments, like most cup tournaments. If it were a league-play, it would be handed over to Barca/Bayern every other year, im sure you would like that, but no one else, really. The CL-concept is obviously very popular and successful, and it should continue to be so.

 

[gasgas]

That's a very, very shallow analysis. The current format of the cl allows for luck to play a bigger part than it should(or the lack of it). You really can't say this season's CL was as hard to win as it was for Barça in 14-15, for example. Barça had absolutely no luck in the draw then, nor we had it this season. Allowing a game like bayern - juve in the round of 16 is also another point to show how bad this current system is. It really takes a lot from the tournament when it happens. Juve got out then, while bad teams like wolfburg and city went on.

rm got a very easy path until the final this time, due to luck only, and then won in a penalty shoot out, which is also a lottery. The system libertadores use is the best of the ones I know. Makes the group stage more intense, and the path is already there, so no luck involved. Decreases the opportunity for corruption as well. But then there wouldn't be those boring draw events, which I think those uefa guys love. It's a pity, really.

but juve could have avoided exiting early by being first in their group instead of city. may be they would've eliminated Madrid in place of city

Real Madrid and Bayern would benefit from that.
they always batter teams in the group stage.

 

[xavi_the_Boss]

Real won against crappy Roma in 1/8 2:0 and 2:0.
Barca played 1:1 and 6:1 against the same crappy opponent, drawing one match and conceding 2 goals.

Real won against crappy Man. City 1:0 and 0:0.
When we won against them in 2014 and 2015, our displays were hailed as mature and very good against a very, very, veeery strong and rich opponent.

Real even played against very strong Psg in a group stage, 1:0 and 0:0.
When we played them, well, Psg was the 4th strongest team in Europe, after Barca, Bayern, Real and Atletico.

Real won against Atletico in a final.
A team which knocked us out and against whom we weren't able to score a goal in 11 vs 11 for 135 minutes.
Barca:Atletico 11 vs 11, score was 0:3 after 135 minutes.
We are toothless and totally neutralized.

So, let's make a list of Barcaforum's ranking of teams:
1. Barcelona
2. Bayern
3. Real
4. Atletico
5. Psg

Let's see how Real actually played against them, or especially this spring:
1. Real vs Barca in a spring:
-- Real was much better in La liga, managed to neutralize -10 points deficit
-- won against us 2:1 at Camp Nou (without luck, without help from Uefa. They were just better than us.)

2. Real vs Bayern:
-- they didn't play since Atletico knocked out Bayern

3. Real vs Atletico:
-- Real won against a team who knocked out 1st and 2nd best team in Europe, Barca and Bayern
-- Barca conceded 3 goals against Atletico in 180 minutes
-- Bayern conceded 2 goals in 180 minutes
-- Real conceded 1 goal in 120 minutes

-- Real was the only one who actually managed to knock out Atletico (true, on penalties, but still...)

4. Real vs Psg:
-- 1:0 and 0:0

So, basically, Real vs Top 5 teams in Europe this spring:
Real > Barca
Real > Atletico
Real > Psg
Barca and Bayern KO'd themselves. Is it Real's fault that we couldn't score a goal vs Atletico in 11 vs 11?

So, Real was lucky with draws and everything.
But at the end of the day, against whomever they played, they were better in the end (especially if we count only this spring, under Zidane).

Also, their clean sheet record is very impressive in this season's CL:
1. Shakhtar 4:0
2. Malmo 2:0
3. Paris 0:0
4. Paris 1:0
5. Malmo 8:0
6. Roma 2:0
7. Roma 2:0
8. Wolfsburg 3:0
9. Man City 0:0
10. Man City 0:0

Conceded:
1. Shakhtar 4:3
2. Wolfsburg 0:2
3. Atletico 1:1

Barca, 10 matches, conceded goals:
1. Roma 1:1
2. Roma 6:1
3. Bayer 2:1
4. Bayer 1:1
5. Arsenal 3:1
6. Atletico 10-men 2:1
7. Atletico 11-men 0:2

Real was better than any opponent in La Liga.
Under Zidane they have 17-2-1: 53 points out of possible 60 points in 20 rounds.

Barcelona have 16-1-3 in the last 20 rounds, or 49 points out of possible 60 points.
Real 53 > Barcelona 49

So:
1. Real won more points than Barca in La liga in spring
2. Real won against Barca at Camp Nou 2:1
3. Real won against Psg and Atletico out of top5 teams in a CL
-- other 2 teams, Barca and Bayern kicked themselves out
4. they were more motivated than us in a CL
5. their defense seems like conceding much less than our team
6. they know how to score a goal against Atletico's 11men in a Champions league decisive match, unlike our players
7. they have never lost in Europe in their history, against any Spanish teams (except against Barca). They are unbeatable for all other Spanish teams...

For the end, I hate Real Madrid.
I would change anything in football in order so that we could have lifted a Champions league trophy.

But these sour grapes posts (not you Alarcon), but a lot of posters, are just hilarious.

If Real is so poor and lucky, why are they better than us (who are so good and awesome) on so many statistical data, especially this spring?

Roma scored a freak goal against Barca and if we look at these matches Roma had better and more chances against Real Madrid.
We always played City in the 1st knock out rounds not in the semis.
RM didn´t beat Atletico either as it ended up 1:1 winning on penalties.RM scored a offside goal while Barcelona got denied a penalty which would have taken the match to extra time.

Ok they maybe did better then us in spring but how many matches did they even play compared to us?
They didn´t have all these Supercups,CWC and no CDR aswell.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Real won against crappy Roma in 1/8 2:0 and 2:0.
Barca played 1:1 and 6:1 against the same crappy opponent, drawing one match and conceding 2 goals.

Real won against crappy Man. City 1:0 and 0:0.
When we won against them in 2014 and 2015, our displays were hailed as mature and very good against a very, very, veeery strong and rich opponent.

Real even played against very strong Psg in a group stage, 1:0 and 0:0.
When we played them, well, Psg was the 4th strongest team in Europe, after Barca, Bayern, Real and Atletico.

Real won against Atletico in a final.
A team which knocked us out and against whom we weren't able to score a goal in 11 vs 11 for 135 minutes.
Barca:Atletico 11 vs 11, score was 0:3 after 135 minutes.
We are toothless and totally neutralized.

So, let's make a list of Barcaforum's ranking of teams:
1. Barcelona
2. Bayern
3. Real
4. Atletico
5. Psg

Let's see how Real actually played against them, or especially this spring:
1. Real vs Barca in a spring:
-- Real was much better in La liga, managed to neutralize -10 points deficit
-- won against us 2:1 at Camp Nou (without luck, without help from Uefa. They were just better than us.)

2. Real vs Bayern:
-- they didn't play since Atletico knocked out Bayern

3. Real vs Atletico:
-- Real won against a team who knocked out 1st and 2nd best team in Europe, Barca and Bayern
-- Barca conceded 3 goals against Atletico in 180 minutes
-- Bayern conceded 2 goals in 180 minutes
-- Real conceded 1 goal in 120 minutes

-- Real was the only one who actually managed to knock out Atletico (true, on penalties, but still...)

4. Real vs Psg:
-- 1:0 and 0:0

So, basically, Real vs Top 5 teams in Europe this spring:
Real > Barca
Real > Atletico
Real > Psg
Barca and Bayern KO'd themselves. Is it Real's fault that we couldn't score a goal vs Atletico in 11 vs 11?

So, Real was lucky with draws and everything.
But at the end of the day, against whomever they played, they were better in the end (especially if we count only this spring, under Zidane).

Also, their clean sheet record is very impressive in this season's CL:
1. Shakhtar 4:0
2. Malmo 2:0
3. Paris 0:0
4. Paris 1:0
5. Malmo 8:0
6. Roma 2:0
7. Roma 2:0
8. Wolfsburg 3:0
9. Man City 0:0
10. Man City 0:0

Conceded:
1. Shakhtar 4:3
2. Wolfsburg 0:2
3. Atletico 1:1

Barca, 10 matches, conceded goals:
1. Roma 1:1
2. Roma 6:1
3. Bayer 2:1
4. Bayer 1:1
5. Arsenal 3:1
6. Atletico 10-men 2:1
7. Atletico 11-men 0:2

Real was better than any opponent in La Liga.
Under Zidane they have 17-2-1: 53 points out of possible 60 points in 20 rounds.

Barcelona have 16-1-3 in the last 20 rounds, or 49 points out of possible 60 points.
Real 53 > Barcelona 49

So:
1. Real won more points than Barca in La liga in spring
2. Real won against Barca at Camp Nou 2:1
3. Real won against Psg and Atletico out of top5 teams in a CL
-- other 2 teams, Barca and Bayern kicked themselves out
4. they were more motivated than us in a CL
5. their defense seems like conceding much less than our team
6. they know how to score a goal against Atletico's 11men in a Champions league decisive match, unlike our players
7. they have never lost in Europe in their history, against any Spanish teams (except against Barca). They are unbeatable for all other Spanish teams...

For the end, I hate Real Madrid.
I would change anything in football in order so that we could have lifted a Champions league trophy.

But these sour grapes posts (not you Alarcon), but a lot of posters, are just hilarious.

If Real is so poor and lucky, why are they better than us (who are so good and awesome) on so many statistical data, especially this spring?

Real haven't beaten Atletico in 3x 90 minute games this season.. We beat them in 7 our of 8 last games against them.
The one which we lost happened to send us out of the CL. So a stat showing that they beat them in penalties in the final doesn't show the real picture.

Anyway like Flavia said give us Roma, Wolfsburg, City then Atletico in a FINAL rather than 2 legs and we would have won too.

 

[serghei]

Wait, didnt Barca get knocked out on their asses against Atletico? The "amazing" Bayern as well, with the "greatest coach ever"?
Well, we are the only team to "beat" Atletico in CL, so yeah...

Considering you only beat an Atletico on penalties with an offside goal and pen. missed by your opponent, it's not a great argument to bring up. You only scored a goal in 120 mins against them and that one was illegal. And you think that's an argument in favour of Madrid?

Played 300 mins vs Atletico this season and you managed to score one legit goal (that Benzema header). Give me a fucking break... By comparison Barca has scored 6 goals in 4 games against them. Won 3 lost 1. You played 3 games, lost 1, drawn the other 2.

There's not even a question that both Barcelona and Bayern are better than Real Madrid. All you have to do is check the last clasico in Madrid when fans were booing your team at HT because you were an inch of being handed a 3-0 at home after only 45 mins in a clasico.