Which is better : AC Milan (1989-1990) or FC Barcelona (2009) ?

[el tren]

Fair enough, El Tren, and thank you. You can have one of my canes (I'm also in my 30s and saw Sacchi's Milan play). I really do appreciate your coherent analysis (which I still at times find myself unable to really do in english; when I think football I do so in Italian. It's my grandfather's fault). I think you're underestimating the Milan squad perhaps a bit, but I know myself to be completely biased on this subject. The 88-90 Milan squad remains the best team I've ever seen. This Barcelona squad comes close but I'm not sure at this point that they've surpassed Milan.

I hope and think i wasnt misunderstood here - w/out any doubt Milan was both dominating and innovating back then, and thus like 10 years ahead of all the other teams. But this is 20 years ago and now they would be (from this comparison) 10 years behind from todays teams.

And i also think im still aware of Milans strengths, they would even by todays standards strong w/out the ball and not make it that easy for Barca to score - but remember that i expect them to only concede 2-3 goals (which is 2-3 goals less than the RM teams of 1-2 years ago used to concede ). And then they very likely wouldnt be able to cope with Barcas intense pressing, thats why i dont expect them to ever be able to seriously attack.

I don't disagree with anything you say, and the fact that Sacchi completely failed as a manager once the rest of football started adopting his tactics really backs your point up, but that Milan side had some phenomenal players in it as well. their tactics may no longer be revolutionary but they were still the greatest exponents of them. the sheer quality of players like Baresi, Maldini, Rijkaard, Gullit & MVB would have made a game w/ Barça a competitive occasion.

True, but also true for Barca, or maybe even more. I think the overall strength from the amount of world class players is higher in most todays top sides than back then. Milan also had Costacurtas or Tassotis. And i was even back in the 90ies always wondering what is so great about that Billy Costacurta ... i couldnt find anything.

I firmly believe that evolvement doesnt stop at tactics but also concerns players skills. Due to much improved youth training, the players got much much better. I just wonder where all these german talents are coming from. 10 years ago players like Hässler or Möller had to play aged 32-33 in the NT, just b/c there wasnt anything else avaiable and players of that skill only showed up every 5 yrs or so. Now you dont know who you want to let play there ... Özil, Götze, Müller, Schürrle, Holtby etc. All of similar age and all perhaps already better than the aforementioned Hässler and Möller.

So are Gullit and van Basten still that great when compared to Messi, Iniesta and Xavi? They looked good 20 years ago ... but you are only as good as your opponents allows.

 

[FiReFTW]

Any team with Puskas and Di Stefano in it would challenge any team in any era.

have any idea how much nutrition, training, general knowledge evolved in 60 years? Puskas or Di Stefano or whoever from 50's would get owned by today's defenders who are far stronger, faster and athletic than in the 50's.. seriously lmao...

 

[AnfieldEd]

have any idea how much nutrition, training, general knowledge evolved in 60 years? Puskas or Di Stefano or whoever from 50's would get owned by today's defenders who are far stronger, faster and athletic than in the 50's.. seriously lmao...

Defenders wouldn't get the fucking ball off of Puskas.

 

[FiReFTW]

Defenders wouldn't get the fucking ball off of Puskas.

 

[AnfieldEd]

I'm deadly serious.

Puskas was an amazing footballer.

 

[xaviniesta]

Okey, I've watched now 2 games. Both against Real Madrid in 1988-89. The talk about their high pressing is nonsense. When Capello said that he admires Sacchi's Milan because their high pressing i belived that, but now that i've seen the games, this is total bullsh*t. It was actually impossible and useless to do that becuase of the rule that you could pass the ball to your goalkeeper with your feet.

But one thing that really amazed me was their very very high defensive line. The whole defense run to make offside trap and there was another rule these days that absolutely NOBODY could not be in offside position.

 

[DucdeOrléans]

Sacchi himself even admitted that the current FC Barcelona is better than his Milan team. Something to take into consideration I guess.

One should also remember that Milan did only won 1 Scudetto from 1987-1991 (Sacchis era)

If we should compare the Milan era from 1987-1994 and thus the beginning of Berlusconis, then they won 3 CL titles (the tournament was far inferior at that time, one can just see Milans way to the final in either year) and 4 scudettos, 4 Italian Super Cups, 3 UEFA Super Cups and 2 Intercontinental Cups from 1987-1994.

FC Barcelona have won 5 league titles, 2 CL titles (could be 3 if they win the 28th), 1 Copa del Rey, 4 Spanish Super Cups, 1 UEFA Super Cup and 1 Intercontinental Cup from 2004-2011.

If we only look at the Pep era (2008-2011) we have won 3 league titles, 1 CL title (could be 2 the 28th), 1 Copa del Rey, 2 Spanish Super Cups, 1 Uefa Super Cup and 1 Intercontinental Cup.

So if we win our 2 CL title under Pep, we only lack 1 league title and more of the less important titles in form of the Spanish Super Cup, UEFA Super Cup and Intercontinental Cup to surpass the 1987-1994 Milan team. And we would have 4 SEASONS! to do so from 2011 on.

I think it is very possible that we will surpass them in terms of titles. I am not going to talk about the playing style because everybody can see that we play better than the 1987-1994 era, even Sacchi admitted so.

But both teams are among the all-time best.

 

[el tren]

Okey, I've watched now 2 games. Both against Real Madrid in 1988-89. The talk about their high pressing is nonsense. When Capello said that he admires Sacchi's Milan because their high pressing i belived that, but now that i've seen the games, this is total bullsh*t. It was actually impossible and useless to do that becuase of the rule that you could pass the ball to your goalkeeper with your feet.

But one thing that really amazed me was their very very high defensive line. The whole defense run to make offside trap and there was another rule these days that absolutely NOBODY could not be in offside position.

And the offside rule was different back then too, b/c there wasnt passive offside. Most of the scenes wouldnt have been offside today, you can best see that from the scene at around 1:00.

 

[Sergio]

Seems like scrapping the barrel when you point to the rules of the day as reason for a team not being so good. Especially when you think of the defenders involved, to say it was not an excellent defense, probably the best that will ever be assembled, just because of passive offside, seems silly.

There is no doubt that even in only 2 decades football has advanced alot, players now do have to be even more athletic, tactics have evolved and the eye and pressure of the media is even greater. Does that mean this Barca therefore is greater, I would not say so, for a start Serie A at that time was the most competitive league you can imagine. As well as the great Milan team, there was Maradonna's Napoli, Matthäus's Inter, ever present Juve, Sampdoria of Vialli and Mancini, Fiorentina of Dunga and Baggio and even Roma still had its quality in the likes of Conti. What Serie A was in those days was week in week out battles with the greatest teams of the day with the great players of the day. It says alot that despite all the stars, and the revolutionary system, Milan enjoyed no domestic dominance at that time.

Now compare that to the situation Barca are in. Yes Madrid have quality, but in reality are not a realistic threat due to a revolving door of players and managers, and massive transfer blunders. The next closest thing is essentially bankrupt clubs like Villarreal, Valencia and Athletic Club, who have a few decent players, but nothing like the quality or depth to challenge Barca in a game on 9 out of 10 occasions. The result is La Liga is not the test of a great side that Serie A was, as most weekends Barca's match is a procession against a nothing team. The effect that has for me is that when it comes to playing over a full season, this team can slack on a weekend and give more in Europe than Milan ever could back then. Not to mention the polarization of European leagues into rich or poor now, which means the quality of opponent in Europe is very rarely of the highest standard as it used to be.

Both are great teams, playing in very different contexts, my point is for every point you can try and degrade about Milan's achievements then, you can see others for Barca's now. Ultimately its a useless argument as you can only ever play and beat what is put in front of you.

 

[el tren]

Seems like scrapping the barrel when you point to the rules of the day as reason for a team not being so good. Especially when you think of the defenders involved, to say it was not an excellent defense, probably the best that will ever be assembled, just because of passive offside, seems silly.

I see i should have made that clear, as it was absolutely not my intention. Instead i pointed to the different rules to show that comparing teams from different eras is pointless when they were playing under different rules. Milan made the best of the rules of that time, but it wouldnt work out today - which would be pretty unfair for a comparison (you could even ask under what ruleset the two teams had to play against each others). That is one more reason to not make that comparison.

 

[FiReFTW]

I'm deadly serious.

Puskas was an amazing footballer.

Yea he was.

60 years ago.

Players today are far more athletic , much faster, stronger, agile etc... not to mention how much tactics evolved.

Seriously do you actually think if Puskas played today he would be anywhere in the top 5 best players in the world?

 

[BigChill]

Thank you for all explanation ! You're right. Although there were another tough teams in that era mentioned above, I think that Milan was the most amazing team. If Napoli, Inter or Juve were better than Milan, they should conquer the Europe at that time but I don't know why Milan could still compete in Champions League.Well, honestly I didn't know the news about it because there was no live match in Serie A when I was child and so were La Liga or Premier League. AC Milan was the first club I admired since 1988.
BTW, let's talk about Barcelona 2009. I knew that there were another La Masia player just like Bojan and Jeffren. I considered them as back up players. So according to you guys as Barcelonistas, are these players capable or not ? I'm not sure about it. Thx !

 

[diegomessi]

Yea he was.

60 years ago.

Players today are far more athletic , much faster, stronger, agile etc... not to mention how much tactics evolved.

Seriously do you actually think if Puskas played today he would be anywhere in the top 5 best players in the world?

there is no way to tell bc he also would have had better training methods and equipment this whole debate in this thread and about players from olden eras seems pointless to me we need a time machine to answer these questions

 

[BigChill]

Oh! I apologise. Wrong words but I can't edit them. What should I do ? I have to write another words :

I'm worried about Milan right now. They need regeneration but I'm sure about Barca. If not mistaken, Xavi and Puyol are already over 30 years old now so who will be their successor ? Thank you !

 

[AnfieldEd]

Yea he was.

60 years ago.

Players today are far more athletic , much faster, stronger, agile etc... not to mention how much tactics evolved.

Seriously do you actually think if Puskas played today he would be anywhere in the top 5 best players in the world?

Yes I do.