Who shall be the new 4th captain

[bismp]

Mascherano, Messi, Pique should be 3 captains. Iniesta and Busquets are great players but they have no charisma nor leadership qualities as the trio I mentioned.

Messi isn't the captain-type leader too IMO.Remember the ARGvsHOL match?Masche was giving the speech,while Messi just sat there.Ofc we don't know what happens in the locker room,but i think that messi leads through his performance,not through his charisma

 

[Stric]

That's why I am against it - this season
Mascherano - last seasons (plural)

A captain has the lead in difficult sitations.
Pique was (only) great when Barca was great - 1st treble season, 2010, this treble season
Mascherano was always reliable. Plus: He also showed that he can be a leader in the argentine team. Damn, he was captain in Argentina before Messi and if you watched the WC 2014 you could see that even though Messi was captain, Mascherano gave the motivational speech (I think it was at extra time break during the match against the Netherlands) so he still is the leader (together with messi if you want).

Also remember what Zubi said? "Everybody is talking about Xavi becoming a coach, but people are forgetting about Mascherano. He as the skills for it."
When you think about who shall be captain, imagine them being the coach. Vision, responsibility, picking up the team during tough situations. Duing this constantly and reliable over a period of many years - Pique or Mascherano? Pique? Over Mascherano? Really?



The captain should be the spokesmen of the coach on the pitch (that's how the Cruyff - Guardiola relationship got described by Pep or Cruyff, can't remember who but I guess one wouldn't argue against either of these two coaching legends and former Barca captains when it comes to this topic) and have the same characteristics of a coach. In recent years Barca had many Catalan/La Masia coaches, yes. But they had more non-Catalan coaches than Catalan coaches. Simply because sometimes the non-Catalan coaches were better. So why treat the question of who shall be 4th captain differently?

Nationality is not the question here. Iniesta and Messi are not Catalan, either.

The bottom line is, I don't disagree with you that Mascherano should be captain. He has the mentality and character of a captain. I just think that Pique would make a fine captain, as well. IMHO the two of them would make better captains than Iniesta or Messi, but obviously that's not how it works at the club.

 

[Hamzah]

mascherano should be a captain for sure.

iniesta should be a captain because he is an ambassador for the club with his good character traits. busquets and messi are not captain material from what i see from them.

alves could also be a capitan.

 

[goope]

Douglas would have come in 3rd in votes, no question, strategic mistake not to include him.

Piqué is the natural choice in terms of longevity at the club, players say they vote for whoever but they always prime seniority since puyol
In leadership skills alone, Masche tops Piqué, but he's the only one to do so.

I love this answer. Perfectly sums up my thoughts but also the fact why Pique will be 4th captain and why most people here want Pique.

Mascherano, Messi, Pique should be 3 captains. Iniesta and Busquets are great players but they have no charisma nor leadership qualities as the trio I mentioned.

Mascherano, Iniesta, Busquets/Messi, Pique from the ones you mentioned.
I think Iniesta doesn't have much charisma, but he is a leader of this Barca team. I know what you mean, but I think his teammates trust him and look up to him and that's what is important for being a captain.
If you are trusted and looked up upon depends on the team. Iniesta might not be leader in another team (Mascherano would and was) but he is the right leader now after Puyol and Xavi for this team imho.

I agree. Although, Iniesta's attitude, experience and achievements make a strong argument for him being captain regardless of the lack of leadership/charisma.

I think leadership comes - partly - from experience and attitude so really I think Iniesta is not a bad choice.
Problem is you can't let Iniesta be 4th captain for years and then make someone - relatively - new (Mascherano) 1st captain.
But if - if - this team would be completely new, with no history, the players all come together in one team for the first time, I'd agree with Bojan and make Mascherano the first captain.

mascherano should be a captain for sure.

iniesta should be a captain because he is an ambassador for the club with his good character traits. busquets and messi are not captain material from what i see from them.

alves could also be a capitan.

Alves for his speeches alone. On the pitch I think Busi is a better leader (gives tranquility and safety), just like Messi, who gives you safety and hope. But talking about charisma, Alves would be better. Still, I think Iniesta 1st because of the reasons you listed and Mascherano 2nd would be good.

 

[Flavia]

That's why I am against it - this season
Mascherano - last seasons (plural)

A captain has the lead in difficult sitations.
Pique was (only) great when Barca was great - 1st treble season, 2010, this treble season
Mascherano was always reliable. Plus: He also showed that he can be a leader in the argentine team. Damn, he was captain in Argentina before Messi and if you watched the WC 2014 you could see that even though Messi was captain, Mascherano gave the motivational speech (I think it was at extra time break during the match against the Netherlands) so he still is the leader (together with messi if you want).

Also remember what Zubi said? "Everybody is talking about Xavi becoming a coach, but people are forgetting about Mascherano. He as the skills for it."
When you think about who shall be captain, imagine them being the coach. Vision, responsibility, picking up the team during tough situations. Duing this constantly and reliable over a period of many years - Pique or Mascherano? Pique? Over Mascherano? Really?



The captain should be the spokesmen of the coach on the pitch (that's how the Cruyff - Guardiola relationship got described by Pep or Cruyff, can't remember who but I guess one wouldn't argue against either of these two coaching legends and former Barca captains when it comes to this topic) and have the same characteristics of a coach. In recent years Barca had many Catalan/La Masia coaches, yes. But they had more non-Catalan coaches than Catalan coaches. Simply because sometimes the non-Catalan coaches were better. So why treat the question of who shall be 4th captain differently?

Pique was great last season too. His and Valdes' injuries is what hurt our team the most. And he is a spokeman for the club. He's a natural leader.

 

[Stric]

But if - if - this team would be completely new, with no history, the players all come together in one team for the first time, I'd agree with Bojan and make Mascherano the first captain.

My thoughts exactly.

The only thing that worries me with Mascherano is his tendency to argue with refs regardless of him being right or wrong. I'm a bit more confident in Messi and Iniesta in that regard (even Pique), but in all honesty, every player can have such moments. For example, seeing Iniesta get into the ref's face yesterday after Neymar's goal was cancelled was embarrassing. It was a clear handball. But Alves and Neymar were really the ones pushing it, I have a feeling Iniesta kind of tagged along even if he maybe didn't see what actually happened.

 

[Hamzah]

it won't really matter anyway, as iniesta will be on the field most of the time and is first choice. i really think messi is an isolationist and wouldn't like talking to refs, talking to other players etc.

 

[goope]

Nationality is not the question here. Iniesta and Messi are not Catalan, either.

The bottom line is, I don't disagree with you that Mascherano should be captain. He has the mentality and character of a captain. I just think that Pique would make a fine captain, as well. IMHO the two of them would make better captains than Iniesta or Messi, but obviously that's not how it works at the club.

What I don't understand - Pique?
The guy who went to Poker matches in Las Vegas during the week and then gave shitty performances on the weekend, the guy who said himself that Puyol had to shout at him when he wasn't concentrating at the end of the game because he thought "we are leading anyway" (quote from Pique himself).

Now look at Mascherano. He doesn't do these things off the pitch in combination with bad performances on the pitch in one and the same week like Pique.
Instead, he is more constant. Puyol didn't play good, then bad, then good. He always gave 100%. Just like Mascherano. Pique doesn't give 100% in 100% of the games. That's why he can never be a captain like Puyol or Mascherano.

 

[bismp]

What I don't understand - Pique?
The guy who went to Poker matches in Las Vegas during the week and then gave shitty performances on the weekend, the guy who said himself that Puyol had to shout at him when he wasn't concentrating at the end of the game because he thought "we are leading anyway" (quote from Pique himself).

Now look at Mascherano. He doesn't do these things off the pitch in combination with bad performances on the pitch in one and the same week like Pique.
Instead, he is more constant. Puyol didn't play good, then bad, then good. He always gave 100%. Just like Mascherano. Pique doesn't give 100% in 100% of the games. That's why he can never be a captain like Puyol or Mascherano.

I think that Pique really matured this season

 

[Stric]

What I don't understand - Pique?
The guy who went to Poker matches in Las Vegas during the week and then gave shitty performances on the weekend, the guy who said himself that Puyol had to shout at him when he wasn't concentrating at the end of the game because he thought "we are leading anyway" (quote from Pique himself).

Now look at Mascherano. He doesn't do these things off the pitch in combination with bad performances on the pitch in one and the same week like Pique.
Instead, he is more constant. Puyol didn't play good, then bad, then good. He always gave 100%. Just like Mascherano. Pique doesn't give 100% in 100% of the games. That's why he can never be a captain like Puyol or Mascherano.

I think it's safe to say that's all behind Pique now. He's matured a lot and has become a lot more like Puyol.

 

[goope]

My thoughts exactly.

The only thing that worries me with Mascherano is his tendency to argue with refs regardless of him being right or wrong. I'm a bit more confident in Messi and Iniesta in that regard (even Pique), but in all honesty, every player can have such moments. For example, seeing Iniesta get into the ref's face yesterday after Neymar's goal was cancelled was embarrassing. It was a clear handball. But Alves and Neymar were really the ones pushing it, I have a feeling Iniesta kind of tagged along even if he maybe didn't see what actually happened.

You are right. I like that Messi and Iniesta aren't talking to the referee, Messi even less which is great.

Problem is, Messi isn't communciating that much and also shows bad behaviour against teammates - on the pitch. Remember when he was shouting at Villa when Villa came back from injury?

The arguing with the referee point is why I wouldn't make Busi captain. He is a diver, so no example. He is arguing with referee. So with these two things he is heating things up instead of calming down. Plus he is very stubborn. Always says "we were the better team". If you can't criticize yourself, how can you show your teammates on the pitch what they do wrong? A captain has to be able to give orders. If you can't take criticism, people won't let you criticize them so easily which might be a problem for a captain. The only reason - but this is a strong reason - why I'd make him captain is the tranquility and safety he gives his teammates with his vision and ball control.

it won't really matter anyway, as iniesta will be on the field most of the time and is first choice.

true

i really think messi is an isolationist and wouldn't like talking to refs

good

messi wouldn't be talking to other players etc.

bad - a captain has to talk with his teammates

Pique was great last season too. His and Valdes' injuries is what hurt our team the most. And he is a spokeman for the club. He's a natural leader.

>natural leader
>goes partying to las vegas during the week and gives bad performances a few days later during league match

Natural leader, okay, I might agree on that. The question is - leading to where?

 

[Flavia]

Messi talks to refs all the time... Also talk to teammates, protect them when other players tries to harass them, as he did with Neymar against atletico.

 

[Stric]

Goope, you keep ignoring the obvious fact that Pique hasn't shown such behavior in quite a while. Yes, he has done it in the past, no one is denying it. But he isn't that guy anymore, and it's unlikely that he'll get more immature as time goes by.

 

[JamDav1982]

You are right. I like that Messi and Iniesta aren't talking to the referee, Messi even less which is great.

Problem is, Messi isn't communciating that much and also shows bad behaviour against teammates - on the pitch. Remember when he was shouting at Villa when Villa came back from injury?

The arguing with the referee point is why I wouldn't make Busi captain. He is a diver, so no example. He is arguing with referee. So with these two things he is heating things up instead of calming down. Plus he is very stubborn. Always says "we were the better team". If you can't criticize yourself, how can you show your teammates on the pitch what they do wrong? A captain has to be able to give orders. If you can't take criticism, people won't let you criticize them so easily which might be a problem for a captain. The only reason - but this is a strong reason - why I'd make him captain is the tranquility and safety he gives his teammates with his vision and ball control.


true
good
bad - a captain has to talk with his teammates



>natural leader
>goes partying to las vegas during the week and gives bad performances a few days later during league match

Natural leader, okay, I might agree on that. The question is - leading to where?

When did Pique go to Las Vegas and party with a shit performance a few days later?

There are different types of captains and Messi does talk to his team mates. One things foe sure - when Messi talks they listen.

 

[goope]

I think it's safe to say that's all behind Pique now. He's matured a lot and has become a lot more like Puyol.

I think that Pique really matured this season

Maybe he matured. But if someone is a very good reliable leader on and off the pitch for years, why would you give the captain's armband to someone who played inconsistent (sometimes good, sometimes bad) and showed lack of respect to his team (going on a poker tour in las vegas during the week) just because he doesn't to it anymore and had a good season when the other guy NEVER did such things?

It's like congratulating someone cause he stopped smoking and not congratulating a strictly non smoker.
It takes more maturity to be constantly reliable than being unreliable and then change. I wouldn't even say anything against Pique if I'd be sure that he'd have changed. I don't say he hasn't. I am just not sure, giving his inconsistency over the last years since he arrived back at Barca. and I think it would be safer to make Mascherano captain now cause he proved he IS consistent and giving Pique the armband when Mascherano is gone since Mascherano is older than Pique. When Pique really stays consistent over the next few years then I have no problem with giving him the armband when Mascherano is gone. But one good season after many inconsistent seasons is too risky imho to make him captain. Cause once he got the armband you can't take it away. If you make Mascherano captain, Pique still can be captain when Mascherano leaves in a few years and when Pique proofed that he really changed his attitude. If you make Pique captain now, Mascherano never will be captain even when he keeps on being consistent and Pique starts being inconsistent again.