Will Hughes

[Jenks]

I put England not producing recent times just as dry spell, more so than something actually wrong at grass roots,

I cannot stress how wrong you are. Until the EPPP came in this year, we had been putting severe restrictions on coaching contact hours, we had a 90 minute rule that stopped the best kids getting to the best academies, we were having children play on full size pitches in 11v11 games where the athletes dominated and smaller technically gifted players were left by the wayside. There was so much wrong with our youth set up that you could write a book about it. I'm sorry, but it's the sort of people that claim it's just a dry spell that have landed us in this mess in the first place. While the rest of Europe was innovating and learning from one another, English football stood still thinking it was top dog because the EPL is the best league in the world. But frankly, without foreign coaches and players even that would be in a very sorry state indeed.

 

[Smile]

To produce 3 or so technical players every decade does not mean you are producing technical players, look at Spain,Italy,france, Argentina to name a few even their second division players are technical good, that what it means to produce players thus you have a much deeper poll to pick from unlike England that produce a few and everyone shits themself when one looks good and call them the next whoever.

We have produced 3 WC 'creative' technical players in the last 10 years, yes that is poor and the worst in England's history, people judge last 10 years though as England in a nutshell and English football when it is not. All this bashing English footballing culture is funny tbh because England are regarded highly outside the UK as these people aren't quick to forget England's of the past.

90's we shitted out technical players, players like Le Tissier unable to even play for England due to talent. Previous generations similar story and as said i am now starting to see England producing again. This is not a new thing, us producing again is just England getting back to normality, this is just England seeing their wrongs last 10 years and putting it right and this 'normality' is what England is and what England always have been and that's major footballing nation, i don't know why people within the UK itself have a problem with that :icon_confused:

 

[Deco 20]

I can't believe someone thinks Jenks is not English... he's been here discussing English football for over a year, posting about the u17s, player development, English clubs etc...

We have produced 3 WC 'creative' technical players in the last 10 years

I'm very flexible with my definition of 'world class', but I still can't think of 3 players. I can only think of two, and they're both arguable. Rooney is definitely world class by my broad definition, but is he a "creative technical" player? Wilshere is both creative and technical, but is he really world class yet?

As for Thiago, I dont think playing comes as naturally to him as it does Wilshere

Wow. If anything it comes too naturally for him.

PS: This Hughes guy needs a more interesting name.

 

[jamrock]

I don't know where the English national team or English players are highly regarded outside of England, if we take Africa out of it, you are confusing the epl which is based in England with English football itself, every around the world respect the epl. But the last time I checked clubs outside of England aren't jumping at the chance to sign English players.

They respect the historical impact england has had on the games, not the national team or the player, i live outside of England everyone loves the Prem, ask them which national team the like or players very few select the English and if you should check you would find its typical most places.

For every gascoigne,keegan,lineker(not Beckham) England produce other top footballing nations produce 6.

 

[Deco 20]

The English NT is respected, a bit like Croatia, Russia etc. IE a good team, just below the summit of European football. Just below Germany, Spain, Italy, Holland, Sweden and perhaps Portugal and France.

 

[Semi-Neutral]

Sweden

 

[jamrock]

Yeah that's about right, especially the Sweden bit

 

[Ode to Django]

haha very subtle Deco. & yes Jenks is pretty much the only guy on the forum who defends all things English. Does a pretty good job too i must say

 

[Smile]

PS: This Hughes guy needs a more interesting name.

See that’s also another problem, people look at names and just because Hughes doesn’t have a glamorous name and are automatically like, meh!

And what’s all this about England only producing 3 WC players to other nations 10? :icon_confused: When you look at the last generation of England players, arguably the worst there’s been for a long time, we’ve had some of the best players in the world in every area of the field. Rio/Terry 2 central defenders highly recognised as being one of the best in the world in their day and 2 captains who have led their teams out in Champions League finals, Gary Neville one of the best RB’s in his day, Ashley Cole highly regarded as the best LB in his day, some still think he is.

Gerrard captaining his side out in a Champions League final, scoring in a Champions League final, motm in a Champions League final. Lampard, scoring in a Champions League final himself and both highly respected WC midfielders outside the UK who have won individual honours by UEFA and FIFA, Paul Scholes only Xavi and Pirlo can compare to his genius in CM, Beckham who imo is more technically gifted and unique than Scholes, Scholes there have been other players you can compare him to, Beckham no one. How he picked out long range passes at ridiculous angles was extraordinary and was the face of football around the world for a long time, then you have Rooney one of the most recognised and respect strikers in world football right now, Michael Owen former Ballon’d ore winner.

This is just last decade or so, the worst state English football has been in for a long time, but as you can see England have still produced and these players have left their marks on the biggest stages of all, but yes have been a massive failure as a unit.

Don’t mistake this failure as what England are though, as said more luck during the 80’s/90’s and early 00’s things could have been so different and it wasn’t lack of talent that held us back then. Spain had 30/40 years of failure and never changed their style or mentality too much for things to change, now look. For all England’s failures though recent times, we are still ranked 6th in the world, even though FIFA’s ranking system is a joke it’s based on a win percentage and this tells me England don’t lose or draw much in friendly’s or competitive fixture.

As for comparing England to Russia & Croatia yeah that about sums this place up, only on a site full of anti-Englishness and anti-PL could you read something like that. Take it from me though, next 2 years or so you lot are all going to be in for a shock, you'll all be going ‘England are changing’ when in reality we are not ‘normality’ is the word and that’s what England are getting back to and I’ll leave it there, wasted enough time on this and I’ve said everything I have to say on the matter, anything else will be talking to a brick wall.

 

[Deco 20]

@Azzido: :beer2: and agreed
@semi-neutral:
@jamrock: you know it's true!

See that’s also another problem, people look at names and just because Hughes doesn’t have a glamorous name and are automatically like, meh!

Oh, I really rated McEchkranroe even though his name is even worse. I'm not going to judge their quality by their name... I just said Will Hughes isn't the most exciting name there is. If his name was Bony he'd probably be more excited.

And what’s all this about England only producing 3 WC players to other nations 10? :icon_confused: When you look at the last generation of England players, Rio/Terry, Gary Neville, Ashley Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Paul Scholes, Beckham, Scholes, Rooney, Michael Owen former Ballon’d ore winner.

The only player there produced during the last 10 years is Rooney. You're having the same problem Sweden has, that is the remainder of a good generation of players is about to quit. Who are the three world class technical playmakers?

As for comparing England to Russia & Croatia yeah that about sums this place up, only on a site full of anti-Englishness and anti-PL could you read something like that. Take it from me though, next 2 years or so you lot are all going to be in for a shock, you'll all be going ‘England are changing’ when in reality we are not ‘normality’ is the word and that’s what England are getting back to and I’ll leave it there, wasted enough time on this and I’ve said everything I have to say on the matter, anything else will be talking to a brick wall.

Why not? Croatia isn't what they were a few years ago (despite doing well in the euros), but we've faced Russia, the Croats and the English and Russia and Croatia were definitely on the same level. I've never seen an English team play as well as the Russians did in Euro 2008. Do you honestly believe that you're closer to Spain and Germany than Russia and Croatia right now?

And why do you assume I have something against the English? I just said you're a respected team, just like Russia and Croatia.

 

[AnfieldEd]

The thing with the english is they tend over rate their own abilities and under rate other countries such as croatia and russia.

Though in one sense I do agree with Smile in the sense great players were produced in the 90's and 00's.

But the system is the problem and the system which fucks up the players in terms of their mentality and technical levels.

If those group of players were brought up in the Italian, Spanish or German system they not only be great players but have the technical and mental attributes too.

 

[Smile]

@Azzido: :beer2: and agreed
Do you honestly believe that you're closer to Spain and Germany than Russia and Croatia right now?

I don’t know you tell me, arguably England’s best team we could put out right now with English players who are still playing:-

----------------Hart
Johnson----Rio---Terry---Cole
--------------Carrick----------------
Walcott---Gerrard—Wilshere---Young
---------------Rooney----------------------

Is that team more comparable to Croatia and Russia or France/Holland/Italy etc? If you’re being truthful you know which type of nations that team really compares to. It is team full of Premier League and Champions League winners, only Spain have more European silverware than that team. Where are Russia’s European medals? Croatia’s? Swedens? Who are these country’s best players? Do they compare with the England players standing and reputation on the world stage? The answer is all no, on paper that England team could win a major competition, but it won’t and everyone in England knows that.

So we are looking to the future and 2 years we’ll have players like this thread is about (Hughes) and McEachran (who you even say is a talent) all ready and available for selection if all develop how we hope & all potentially an upgrade on likes of Barry and Scotty Parker, which says to me our short term future looks good (better than the golden flops anyway) and longer term even better, I don't know why people can't see that *looks at this forums name again* oh yeah that's why.

 

[jamrock]

Typical looking at the names and not the team as a whole. And who in that team would make it into the France,Spain,Brazil,Italy or German team on a individual levels, Cole and that's about it.

 

[Deco 20]

I don’t know you tell me, arguably England’s best team we could put out right now with English players who are still playing:-

----------------Hart
Johnson----Rio---Terry---Cole
--------------Carrick----------------
Walcott---Gerrard—Wilshere---Young
---------------Rooney----------------------

Is that team more comparable to Croatia and Russia or France/Holland/Italy etc? If you’re being truthful you know which type of nations that team really compares to. It is team full of Premier League and Champions League winners, only Spain have more European silverware than that team. Where are Russia’s European medals? Croatia’s? Swedens? Who are these country’s best players? Do they compare with the England players standing and reputation on the world stage? The answer is all no, on paper that England team could win a major competition, but it won’t and everyone in England knows that.

So we are looking to the future and 2 years we’ll have players like this thread is about (Hughes) and McEachran (who you even say is a talent) all ready and available for selection if all develop how we hope & all potentially an upgrade on likes of Barry and Scotty Parker, which says to me our short term future looks good (better than the golden flops anyway) and longer term even better, I don't know why people can't see that *looks at this forums name again* oh yeah that's why.

I said your national team is comparable to Russia and Croatia, not the players in the team. I base it on how well you perform and how your players play for the national team, not how they do for their clubs.

I'm not trying to undervalue the English NT, and saying they're on the second tier of European football is far from disrespectful. The second tier contains several strong sides... You should show more respect to the 'lesser' footballing nations, because there's about a dozen sides in Europe who can get a result against anyone.
Players like Ibrahimovic, Srna and Modric would most likely start for England, and then there's Mandzukic who's one of the top scorers in the Bundesliga. Akinfeev is a good goalkeeper...

And I never questioned your future. It seems bright with English YT doing well both in the youth euros and international tournaments. I rate(d) McEachran, but I haven't seen much of him lately so I'm assuming he's stagnated somewhat due to injuries/not playing.

 

[Smile]

I said your national team is comparable to Russia and Croatia, not the players in the team. I base it on how well you perform and how your players play for the national team, not how they do for their clubs.

Well it's obvious our players haven't performed as they should, but since the convo went onto 'individualism' the point i was getting at is England produce individuals comparable with other top nations and SHOULD be competing with these nations on paper. I still think comparing us to the likes of Russia is going OTT, England are higher ranked than the likes of Italy and France (or was last time i looked) which means we win more friendly's and competitive matches then those nations, we've certainly done better than France in the last few major competitions (poor as we've been), so what does that say about them? And not many people would back a Russia or a Croatia vs England (again) poor as England are right now.

I rate(d) McEachran, but I haven't seen much of him lately so I'm assuming he's stagnated somewhat due to injuries/not playing.

He's on loan at Boro, he's doing well.