Would you be willing to part with one of MSN in order to tune the squad ?

[wisconsincule]

I think I would trade Neymar/Suarez for Veratti. Then make a big splash on a forward to replace whoever left. I think at this point the only way we'd get Veratti is by selling them Neymar.

I wouldn't mind Hazard in Neymar's place.

 

[Barcaman]

My answer is yes - absolutely. Idea of focusing shif from midfield to attack worked only in 2015. Problem is, who, and how do you buy in this market where you have 4-5 new big sharks in the pool and many clubs that are having much bigger wage budgets than during Pep's Barca.

 

[Raketa10]

Only Messi is not for sale! I would sell Suarez before Neymar though.

 

[Zebulun]

my problem is with losing one of them is that right now we dont have a good midfield neither fullbacks. we'll end up with the same problem we had before.
metaphorically speaking we'll be adding a new engine and removing the wheels.

 

[BBZ8800]

The point is there is no one good enough to join us if we sell one of them to replace him. We could sell neymar or suarez for a huge amount but there is no guarantee that the replacements will outdo neymar or suarez.

But yeah our wage bill is too high to operate currently.

It doesn't work like that: you need a player for a player, or to get a better or an equal player.

One more time, Masch is maybe the best Cdm in the world.
Yet, in Barca, at least 3 guys play better on that position (Busi, Rakitic and Roberto).

Zlatan was maybe the best Cf in the world, yet some other players who are 70-80% of him, could be a better fit here.

So, you don't need a player who is as good as Neymar or Suarez.
About a LW, even Pedro currently wouldn't be a downgrade from Neymar.
Neymar as an individual is a better player. A current Barca with Pedro would be better, or in the worst case, equally as poor as Neymar's Barca.

Further, we had Ronaldo the Brasilian in 1997 here.
He scored 34 goals in 37 matches.
We were 2nd, behind Real Mardid.
Top scorers in La liga were: Ronaldo first, and the 2nd best guy scored 25 goals.
Luis enrique scored 17 goals, all other guys in Barca 13 or less.

So, back then it seemed: omg, if we'll sell Ronaldo, we will be 50% weaker than today.
Well, let's see what happened:
= in the next year, we bought different players in attackers Rivaldo and Sonny Anderson, and sold the best player R9.
Rivaldo scored "only" 19 (top La liga scorer Vieri scored 24).
Lucho scored 18.
Barca won a title without Ronaldo R9, with 9 points advantage on top.

A year after that we won another title with +11 points advantage.
Rivaldo scored 24, Kluivert only 15, Cocu 12 and Lucho 11.

So, we traded an individual player who was scoring like crazy and bought different, weaker players.
But a team started to play differently and more players started to score goals and we didn't rely on an individual effort anymore.

So, in our current case, we shouldn't use that logic: but every player is a downgrade from Neymar.
Again, every player is a downgrade from a Cdm Mascherano or Cf Zlatan, and yet we played way better with different or inferior players.

 

[JamDav1982]

Ideally for me it would be keep Neymar and buy a proper midfield that can dictate play and Messi goes to th RW and stays there more.

It is all too slow and predictable against the top teams that defend well for slow passing until Messi is free then he has to try some world class pass just to open them up.

Nowhere near enough variety and too much deferring to Messi isn't working.

For Neymar himself starting to think he should leave and go and see what he can lead a team to being the main man in attack. Where the ball goes through him a lot more. He doesn't have to track back as much etc.

 

[khaled_a_d]

It doesn't work like that: you need a player for a player, or to get a better or an equal player.

One more time, Masch is maybe the best Cdm in the world.
Yet, in Barca, at least 3 guys play better on that position (Busi, Rakitic and Roberto).

Zlatan was maybe the best Cf in the world, yet some other players who are 70-80% of him, could be a better fit here.

So, you don't need a player who is as good as Neymar or Suarez.
About a LW, even Pedro currently wouldn't be a downgrade from Neymar.
Neymar as an individual is a better player. A current Barca with Pedro would be better, or in the worst case, equally as poor as Neymar's Barca.

Further, we had Ronaldo the Brasilian in 1997 here.
He scored 34 goals in 37 matches.
We were 2nd, behind Real Mardid.
Top scorers in La liga were: Ronaldo first, and the 2nd best guy scored 25 goals.
Luis enrique scored 17 goals, all other guys in Barca 13 or less.

So, back then it seemed: omg, if we'll sell Ronaldo, we will be 50% weaker than today.
Well, let's see what happened:
= in the next year, we bought different players in attackers Rivaldo and Sonny Anderson, and sold the best player R9.
Rivaldo scored "only" 19 (top La liga scorer Vieri scored 24).
Lucho scored 18.
Barca won a title without Ronaldo R9, with 9 points advantage on top.

A year after that we won another title with +11 points advantage.
Rivaldo scored 24, Kluivert only 15, Cocu 12 and Lucho 11.

So, we traded an individual player who was scoring like crazy and bought different, weaker players.
But a team started to play differently and more players started to score goals and we didn't rely on an individual effort anymore.

So, in our current case, we shouldn't use that logic: but every player is a downgrade from Neymar.
Again, every player is a downgrade from a Cdm Mascherano or Cf Zlatan, and yet we played way better with different or inferior players.

Liverpool tried that trick after selling Suarez and they failed. We have tried to replace Figo and failed
It can work but it need a really gr8 sporting vision that I am not sure we have atm. And this club has history of selling gr8 player for money but we actually never been dominant force in Europe until we stopped it
Also I doubt we will sell Neymar,he is only one of few starter who are under 28 currently (along MATS,Umtiti & S.Roberto )
I am not against selling Suarez tbh if we got huge offer from a club like Manu for example,he is 30 and showing decline,but he is a player that give us all and he is a striker that Messi is entirely comfortable to play beside.
Right now we have a tactical problem with Messi playing as 2nd striker, he is more like false 9 except playing behind a true 9 and being more of a creator than he was.
Is he gonna be AM ? so in such case we will need to replace 2 players in attack,is he gonna be false 9? or RW? tbh there is a lot of tactical questions to ask here,and the fact is that the market right now is really challenging. EPL is pouring money like crazy and it will be tough to get several world class players to compensate for losing one of the best players in your team.
All in all I agree it can be successful,I just don't see a realistic scenario for it atm

 

[God Serena]

I'm going to say something that'll probably be pretty unpopular here. Not only do I think we should dismantle MSN, but I believe we won't be a top club again until we do. Suarez is no longer the striker he once was and he's only getting worse. Neymar isn't much of a goal scorer (Sandro has more goals for Malaga lol) nowadays either, and his style of play rarely blends with the rest of the team to help us win. Yet both of these players are so unshakable from our starting XI that it's impossible for us to sign any other semi competent forwards or develop any young players. We missed out on countless forwards who could have helped us and the only time anyone else really got a chance to play up front is when one of them is injured or suspended, which is rarely the time you want your backups to start getting pressure minutes. Sandro, Munir, Rafinha, Paco, and Denis are all young forwards who are either always played out of position or permanently affixed to the bench just so they can get an "opportunity" and have the world come down on them when they fail. It's no coincidence how the one who failed the earliest (Deulofeu) is the one most likely to return and possibly succeed after being removed from the Barca equation almost completely.

We don't need the supposed best attack ever to win the league or even the CL. That's the only way Lucho could dream of having success as a manager but it's not the only way. If we had a good manager we could win games we lost with a front line of Messi, Tello and Rafinha (Haha look at my La Masia fetish). A new manager is the most crucial thing we need but renewing the squad is just as important. A consistently underwhelming MSN isn't going to suddenly start saving the day if we just sign one or two class midfielders, but getting a class midfielder, a quality RB, and some fresh motivation from a forward eager for success who is willing to play the way we actually play, just might. Not only that, but even clearing up one of those forward spots will give us room to sign a backup forward, and not have to keep that position X'd out in favor of a bench forward.

I'd rather lose with a young team that's developing a system, than lose with the "greatest attack ever" who can't score a single goal away from home in the CL knockout rounds, and removing one or two of MSN is the only way to move towards one of those.

 

[JamDav1982]

The problem isn't MSN it is the shit midfield and over reliance on Messi as everyone defers to him and makes team too one dimensional.

If Barca sign a proper midfield, Messi stays as a RW who doesn't look for ball centrally all the time then Barca give more problems to teams then it will be far harder to defend than is now.

Having said that can't see that happening or anyone having the balls to tell Messi to stick on RW more so won't happen.

 

[aaron101]

Only Suarez should be up for sale between the MSN. Neymar is too young to cash in.

 

[wisconsincule]

Would selling Suarez unsettle Messi though? It seems as though they have quite the bromance.

 

[El Guaje]

There are 2 options:
1. MSN from 2014/15 is a true level of MSN and they are just underperforming now due to Lucho, motivation, age etc
2. A current level of MSN from the last two seasons is a true level of MSN, and 2014/15 was just one crazy season where they played at 120% of their abilities (like Leicester or Atletico in their golden seasons) and 2014/15 will never repeat again. Especially if you add age and even less motivation in each new season.

We too often look at one short period of time and think about that period as "a true level" of Msn or Neymar.
If we look at larger samples, both at good and bad periods, plus if we try to make some "average form" over 3-4 years, imo, those estimations will be way closer to a real value than looking only at player's prime 6 or 12 Months.

or 3: They have no support at all which makes their work much harder to do. That problem is easy to see. Why is Neymar collecting the ball in midfield area when he should be near to opponents box waiting to either get the ball or to make a run? Why does Messi have to drop so damn deep? Yeah thats right, there is nobody on the field except n declining Iniesta to bring the ball up or attempt to make a killer pass. Suarez is left all alone isolated with no service at all. The core problem is not the MSN trio, it is the subpar midfield.

It doesn't work like that: you need a player for a player, or to get a better or an equal player.

One more time, Masch is maybe the best Cdm in the world.
Yet, in Barca, at least 3 guys play better on that position (Busi, Rakitic and Roberto).

Zlatan was maybe the best Cf in the world, yet some other players who are 70-80% of him, could be a better fit here.

So, you don't need a player who is as good as Neymar or Suarez.
About a LW, even Pedro currently wouldn't be a downgrade from Neymar.
Neymar as an individual is a better player. A current Barca with Pedro would be better, or in the worst case, equally as poor as Neymar's Barca.

Further, we had Ronaldo the Brasilian in 1997 here.
He scored 34 goals in 37 matches.
We were 2nd, behind Real Mardid.
Top scorers in La liga were: Ronaldo first, and the 2nd best guy scored 25 goals.
Luis enrique scored 17 goals, all other guys in Barca 13 or less.

So, back then it seemed: omg, if we'll sell Ronaldo, we will be 50% weaker than today.
Well, let's see what happened:
= in the next year, we bought different players in attackers Rivaldo and Sonny Anderson, and sold the best player R9.
Rivaldo scored "only" 19 (top La liga scorer Vieri scored 24).
Lucho scored 18.
Barca won a title without Ronaldo R9, with 9 points advantage on top.

A year after that we won another title with +11 points advantage.
Rivaldo scored 24, Kluivert only 15, Cocu 12 and Lucho 11.

So, we traded an individual player who was scoring like crazy and bought different, weaker players.
But a team started to play differently and more players started to score goals and we didn't rely on an individual effort anymore.

So, in our current case, we shouldn't use that logic: but every player is a downgrade from Neymar.
Again, every player is a downgrade from a Cdm Mascherano or Cf Zlatan, and yet we played way better with different or inferior players.

There is no reason at all to have Pedro instead of Neymar. He would never be able to pull what Neymar did vs PSG. He wont ever pull as neat combinations with Suarez and Messi as Neymar does. Hell he cant do anything else than receiving the ball on the wing and then pass it back which is why we were so god damn one dimensional and dependent on Messi to do something all the time because his partners were useless and you want that back lol. Nobody ever gave a sh!t, instead they could have 3 people on Messi. That statement of yours is making you look like a fool.

If we were supposed to destroy MSN

I would keep Messi
Sell Suarez, sign Mbappe
Sell Neymar, sign Dybala

Team would look like

...,.............Busi.....
.....Veratti............Roberto
................Messi
.......Dybala.........Mbappe




BUT we are keeping MSN
So all this is irrelevant

Yeah hopefully. As if it wasnt enough with signing sh!t midfielders for tons of money. Now we should also sell a superior player (Neymar) to get a inferior player (Dybala). Sweet Jesus...

 

[gasgas]

or 3: They have no support at all which makes their work much harder to do. That problem is easy to see. Why is Neymar collecting the ball in midfield area when he should be near to opponents box waiting to either get the ball or to make a run? Why does Messi have to drop so damn deep? Yeah thats right, there is nobody on the field except n declining Iniesta to bring the ball up or attempt to make a killer pass. Suarez is left all alone isolated with no service at all. The core problem is not the MSN trio, it is the subpar midfield.



There is no reason at all to have Pedro instead of Neymar. He would never be able to pull what Neymar did vs PSG. He wont ever pull as neat combinations with Suarez and Messi as Neymar does. Hell he cant do anything else than receiving the ball on the wing and then pass it back which is why we were so god damn one dimensional and dependent on Messi to do something all the time because his partners were useless and you want that back lol. Nobody ever gave a sh!t, instead they could have 3 people on Messi. That statement of yours is making you look like a fool.



Yeah hopefully. As if it wasnt enough with signing sh!t midfielders for tons of money. Now we should also sell a superior player (Neymar) to get a inferior player (Dybala). Sweet Jesus...

You missed the point
The question implies we are in financial deficit and we can't improve squad unless we disband MSN

 

[El Guaje]

You missed the point
The question implies we are in financial deficit and we can't improve squad unless we disband MSN

We wouldnt be bale to buy all of Mbappe, Dybala and Veratti even if we did.

And it is fully possible to improve the squad. 1st off, dont buy sh!t players like Gomes, Arda and Vermaelen. The damage is already done though, so we should cut or losses and sell these scrubs 1st. Their fees combined could land a CM. 2nd off sell ALL of our loaned out players. Then we have our summer transferbudget. And also, arent there a bunch of new sponsor deals kicking in?

But yeah, as if Gomes is getting sold after just one season...

 

[gasgas]

We wouldnt be bale to buy all of Mbappe, Dybala and Veratti even if we did.

And it is fully possible to improve the squad. 1st off, dont buy sh!t players like Gomes, Arda and Vermaelen. The damage is already done though, so we should cut or losses and sell these scrubs 1st. Their fees combined could land a CM. 2nd off sell ALL of our loaned out players. Then we have our summer transferbudget. And also, arent there a bunch of new sponsor deals kicking in?

But yeah, as if Gomes is getting sold after just one season...

Again I am not saying buy Mbappe, Dybala


I am just giving options in the scenario we are forced to sell members of MSN

I don't want them sold, may be Suarez because of age

But if we are faced with a situation where we either keep MSN, but with a poor squad or sell them.
I would keep Messi out of the three