Xavi Hernández

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Rory

Senior Member
I hope Xavi hasn't seen Gavi, Nico and Pedri and thought we don't need midfield signings. As great as these youngsters are, how many legendary midfielders were regularly starting for a barca level team at their age? They're going to be inconsistent for years, have injury trouble due to still growing. Maybe they'll not progress in ways we want them to etc.

Frenkie is at a good age and we need more signed like him, Kessie is the most obvious choice in the world. A player that can play dm, he's a captain and even contributes goals, oh and is out of contract this summer.

Also hope he drops busquets soon otherwise don't think I can handle watching more games.
 

serghei

Senior Member
@BBZ, but the current generation of youngsters is the best in the last 10 years. Has any other youngster in the past 10 years won the golden boy award, did any one of them got called up for the national team. Pedri, Gavi and Fati all did that, they did more in a season, than any youngster of the past 10 years in their whole careers. These generation is already different, because they are not only hyped by Barcaforum, but by the whole world.

You would write the same about our golden generation before they realized their potential. You would call Messi injury prone, Xavi and Iniesta would be to similar, they would never work together, Puyol would lack technical ability for a top team, Valdes would be error prone.

I'm not saying that this generation will be as good as that, but they are better than any that came after our golden generation, and they proved it on the pitch, they did the one thing that you always criticized our past youngsters for.

100%. Is there any doubt about this?
 

Messigician

Senior Member
100%. Is there any doubt about this?

Yes

Let's not pretend Bojan and co weren't highly rated too the truth is we won the lottery that all those prospects turned out amazing and didn't flop

Bbz point is yiure in dreamland if you think it'll happen again
 

serghei

Senior Member
Yes

Let's not pretend Bojan and co weren't highly rated too the truth is we won the lottery that all those prospects turned out amazing and didn't flop

Bbz point is yiure in dreamland if you think it'll happen again

Yea, of course, La Masia doesn't have anything to do with it. They could have just popped out at some random team in Cyprus just the same :lol:.

It's like some Zeus-like figure, the football god in the sky, put these names in a bowl, with some 2000 club names, including Sherrif Tiraspol, Ghuaghzou Evergrande, FC Kuala Lumpur, and the dude just picked up FC Barcelona.

That's probably not how it happened. I'm pretty sure there's some role Barca and its Academy had in raising these players to the level they ended up reaching in their primes.
 
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Rory

Senior Member
Thing is the years where these supposed gems were coming through we already had world class established players ahead of them. It didn't matter if they turned out to be flops because they were subs the whole time or required 2 injured players to start. Some players listed didn't really get a chance at all as they were moved on due to not being good enough.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
@BBZ, but the current generation of youngsters is the best in the last 10 years. Has any other youngster in the past 10 years won the golden boy award, did any one of them got called up for the national team. Pedri, Gavi and Fati all did that, they did more in a season, than any youngster of the past 10 years in their whole careers. These generation is already different, because they are not only hyped by Barcaforum, but by the whole world.

You would write the same about our golden generation before they realized their potential. You would call Messi injury prone, Xavi and Iniesta would be to similar, they would never work together, Puyol would lack technical ability for a top team, Valdes would be error prone.

I'm not saying that this generation will be as good as that, but they are better than any that came after our golden generation, and they proved it on the pitch, they did the one thing that you always criticized our past youngsters for.

The last sentence is unneeded lie.
About Messi, I watched Barca every single weekend back then, and I was really excited about Messi, he had some magic and aura from the first second.
About young Xavi, I loved him since the age 19.
I do have to admit that I didn't like young Iniesta. But, on the other hand, even the older Iniesta was never nowhere close (for me) to Xavi. I am just not that much "into Iniesta" in general.
I was never a huge fan of his football :/

Thiago Motta looked nice in the early days.
I even had hopes for young Gabri who was together with Xavi and Iniesta one of the key players in Spanish youth teams.
I had high hopes even in young Bojan Krkic.
Or even in Gio Dos Santos.

But after them, I started to less believe in hype because it's just hype, clicks and feeding the hope and dreams of naive fans of every club in the world.

Regarding Pedri, Fati and friends:
I could agree about Pedri, because he is universally acclaimed.
But what helped is that we suck currently and a player of Pedri's age was given a chance to grow.
If Pedri was here in 2014 and 2017, he wouldn't play in such an early age.

About Gavi and Fati in NT, I am not buying that story yet because Lucho is weird as fuck lately.
I am not sure is he a Catalan separatist or what happened with him, but it is obvious that he has some Catalan and anti-Madrid agenda.
He is calling every semi decent young Catalan footballer.
So, about Fati and Gavi, it is hard to tell whether they are called because they are THAT good or because Lucho went full retard in political terms.

Regarding Gavi, I am watching matches every weekend and I still have no clue what Gavi is doing and what are his strengths except being young, being a fighter and running around like crazy (like Frenkie).
Nico, I won't waste words anymore.
Puig, finished story years ago.
Fati, he has some moments of brilliance but also a lot of questions around his overal game, way too many injuries and already questionable behavior due to too much hype around him.

When you sum it all, the most likely scenario in 3 years is that we will have one world class player in Pedri and one so-so guy in Gavi.
Others will probably be forgotten and we'll just move on to new Alenas, Puigs and Oriols.

But still, even if we would have 5 La Masia gems, all of these guys are midfielders.
And matches are usually won in attack.
Yet, the prices of good attackers are very high and we are broke, La Liga is on a decline and soon no one will want to come.
Instead of Mbappe, Haaland and Brazilians, soon we'll be able to attract only no name Cameroonians and local overrated players from Valencia.

I am repeating the same things now like a broken record: when you remove bias, hope and hype from current La Masia crop, there is really not too much left.
We'll get 2 or 3 domestic players and absolutely nothing at all other areas of the pitch.
We don't have money, we won't have money anytime soon, La Liga is dying and if Covid will stay for years, we will be in even worse financial situation than today.
EPL doesn't care about Covid, oil money is not affected by Covid, yet our finances, stadium, tickets income is heavily influenced by Covid and Messi's departure.

Not only that we'll sink like a Titanic, there is a realistic chance that we'll sink even deeper, but I don't know how to phrase/call it at all.

But you guys are "trusting the process" in a no name coach who looks highly questionable and in a few young players called by Catalan-agent Lucho.
Oh well... Again, I admire your optimism, really a Goat level.
 
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Messigician

Senior Member
Never said it mate. cheers.

Cheers

"Halilovic wasn't even a Barca first team player. Arthur is being spoken about as similar to Xavi in terms of playing style by big names like Messi and Suarez. And we paid 40m for him. Different level."


Gaining space and time in football is a cumulative effort. Even the keeper can gain space and time with a good delivery. Arthur is the type of player who provides space, access and time to his teammates. He doesn't get those things in large quantity because he plays it simple and is very possession oriented, but he gets them consistently.

"He needs a manager who would understand how valuable this is. To almost never give away the ball and always find space even if he doesn't do extravagant stuff. Xavi had less assists in 2010-11 in La Liga than Borja Valero."

Xavi was very creative but his 'end product' as some like to call goals, assists and such wasn't great or consistent at all times, especially after Messi became more of a passer and a playmaker. Scored few goals in his career and usually, especially in his best years at Barcelona, wasn't exactly a last pass role player. That was mostly Messi. Messi was the one in the team who basically had the freedom to take individual actions and look for assists, shots, or go on dribbling runs. Xavi made assists - a lot of them great, in important games like CL finals and such - if he had the chance to, but he didn't force things in order to look for them specifically. Which is what most here demand Arthur should do.

"Arthur is the same profile of player like Xavi was. He needs to perfect his style and get as close to that standard as possible. His strong points are ball retention, advancing the play in a non decisive but important way, assessing risk then choosing when to play more direct and when to temporize the play, moving a lot and providing easy and fast access for a player on the ball, thus ensuring fluidity and maintaining shape."
 

Messigician

Senior Member
Also a gem from BBZ Originally Posted by Gnidrologist View Post
I'm starting to doubt whether BBZ is pretending to be deliberately obtuse or genuinely not very bright graphomaniac. The whole point that i an many others are making is whether Arthur is suited for Barca in terms of his style and ability for current squad in current year. The answer is - yes he does.

BBZ GETS TRIGGERED HERE

Here is the problem.
Style
You, Konan, Serghei and some others think that his style reminds of Xavi's or of a controller.
Me, Khaled, Laporta and some others think that his style can't be described as Xavi's since he lacks in a key par of Xavi's role: creativity.
If you will now say: lol, a controller only needs to control, like Arthur. Xavi was one of a kind.

Well, in the last 15 years:
Cm Deco, quite attacking and creative
Cm Xavi, no comment needed
Cm Iniesta, no comment needed
Cm, Keita, able to play forward passes
Cm Van Bommel, lots of deadly, direct forward passes, even though he wasn't the best fit in general
Even Motta as a Cm had lots of forward passes even though he is a more defensive player.
Later: Fabregas, creative, even though a bad fit.
Rafinha, creative.
Arda, creative, but with other flaws.
Rakitic, still more creative than Arthur.
Gomes, a crap. No need to compare anyone with him.
Denis, more creative.

So, I don't need to compare his creativity with Xavi.
This is Barca and here, it is all about attack and passing.
This is why Semedo sucks.
This is why we are buying Gks who have world class feet technique.

Arthur is for now the least creative/forward minded CM which I have ever seen at Barca. or at least in this century, since I don't remember players from 90s that well since I was young.

In short: people say that his style is like Xavi's.
Our reply: Well, only some parts of Xavi's style. He lacks in other parts.
If you reply: Ok, his style is of a typical controller.
A reply: Well, then he is the most conservative controller I have ever seen, compared to other top teams, and not to Xavi.
And if you compare him with normal Barca's midfielders, again: he is the most cautious passer which I have ever seen.
And now go back to a part: we are Barca, it is all about attacking, passing, scoring, risking here, then you have a reply why me and some others aren't too impressed with Arthur for now.
Quite the opposite.
The way how he plays currently, I see him more suited to a slower Italian football of Milan, Inter, Lazio and similar.

Further, I don't get your question completely (this will sound weird, I don't know from which country you are, but your English phrases and words are way more complicated than from 99% of other posters and I often need to Google several words from each of your posts).
About whether he is suited for Barca in terms of his style, what kind of question is that?
I guess that you wanted to say that in theory Arthur's style fits Barca's classical like a glove.
Further, can he be useful this season (since I don't get your posts, as explained above due to your complicated phrases)? Well, of course.
But that is not a big achievement since more or less everyone can be useful:
1. Coutinho, of course
2. Busquets, of course
3. Rakitic, yes
4. Rafinha, yes
5. Denis, in some matches he can help in the 2nd half
6. Vidal, probably since he brings something different
7. Arthur, he is not a bad player, of course that he can help

So, I won't even compare him to Xavi, but to current players.
If you ask for my pecking order, against parked buses against La Liga teams, it would be:
1. Coutinho
2. Busquets
3. Rakitic
---------------
4. Rafinha
---------------
5. Arthur/Vidal
7. Denis

Against Roma, who pressed us like crazy: Arthur is more useful since he is the best in getting the ball out of our half.
But again, against minor teams who park buses, I don't see too much use from his game currently and I would rather see even Rafinha at Camp Nou against Getafe as a 4th pick midfielder.
Even Roberto as a midfielder would bring more against minor teams since he is direct and way more attacking.

About a 2nd part of your post how old Xavi declined, well there are 2 possibilities:
1. either he aged and started to play more safe
2. or, he wasn't able to break defenses anymore because the opponents have figured out TikiTaka and how to stop our deadly actions

Since I am talking for years that our opponents have figured out TikiTaka, I could agree with a 2nd part of your post.
But then:
= if the opponents figured out TikiTaka, isn't it wiser to evolve to something new, and yet, we are buying a player who is a weaker copy of our TikiTaka guys, who were also figured out over time?
 

serghei

Senior Member
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], you just ignore too many ways in which a top-class team can be created. It's not just about buying superstars. The superstar model is with PSG, and they are not really a top 4 side atm.

Bayern when they won CL had Gnabry and Coman on the wings. Both were technically rejects from other clubs. Gnabry is an Arsenal reject, Coman is a Juventus reject.
 
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Messigician

Senior Member
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], you just ignore too many ways in which a top-class team can be created. It's not just about buying superstars. The superstar model is with PSG, and they are not really a top 4 side atm.

Bayern when they won CL had Gnabry and Coman on the wings. Both were technically rejects from other clubs.

Which top team hasnt invested hevaily in superstars?
 

serghei

Senior Member
Which top team hasnt invested hevaily in superstars?

Bayern, Liverpool, even City. Neither bought anyone over 100m. Our problem was actually believing in the superstar story too much with flops like Coutinho, Dembele. The one building based on the galactico model is PSG, with attacking purchases like 222m Neymar, 180m Mbappe.

City's top 3, their best top 3 is basically Foden - Jesus - Silva atm probably. Or somewhere along the line. What's the cost of that?

What's the cost of Coman - Lewa - Gnabry?

What's the cost of Mane - Firmino - Salah, the CL winning trio of Liverpool?
 
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