Xavi Hernández

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vegitot

Senior Member
Al Sadd with the strongest squad in Qatar league.

"When you watch the goal that I linked above once, you will say to yourself, ?damn that?s a nicely worked goal?. When you watch it more than once, you will notice that the opponent?s defence and midfield absolutely suck, and you will be completely right. Basically, player registration rules in Qatar allow for three foreign players that can be from anywhere in the world, one foreign player from an AFC member country, and then one additional foreign player from an Arab nation. In Al Sadd?s case, Guilherme, Ayew and Cazorla are the three open spot foreign players, Woo is the Asian player, and Bounedjah is the Arab player. That leaves around 15-20 other players in the squad who are all Qataris. The thing is that Qatar is a country where less than 350 000 people are actually citizens, which means that the player pool is extremely small. Since Qatar?s extraordinary Asian Cup win almost three years ago, national team manager Felix Sanchez has introduced just 2-3 new players that have managed to compete for spots in Qatar?s starting XI. Essentially, there are not more than 16 players in Qatar that I would consider good enough to play on a decent Asian level. From those 16 players, 9 of them already play for Al Sadd. Another 5 play for rivals Al Duhail, and the remaining two play for fallen giants Al Gharrafa and Al Rayyan. That means that an overwhelming majority of players for other Qatari clubs are simply awful"

Tell me any of current Barca player can score 20 goals and provide 14 assists in league like Carzola does in Qatar.
 

Bobo32

Senior Member
Setien was employed because he apparently was a student of Cruyff or some manufactured nonsense like that and to be frank was an utter disaster to the point we get humiliated 8-2 by Bayern. Valverde did do extremely well domestically but he also was a former player and has left a mixed legacy.

The only real exception is Tata Martino. Sometimes former players do become great coaches but to me a club like Barcelona should be looking to employ the worlds best coaches regardless and not just someone with a Barca history just so they can bleat about Barca DNA, all whilst conjuring up football that doesn't remotely resemble it.

Setien I can maybe give you, he tried to do that thing, but had no history though as I thought you first argued. He got half a strange year and had one terrible game, he at least defeated Napoli before that.
I never heard Valverde be put in that coffin before because of his 22 Barcelona games in the 80's, I don't think that makes much difference whatsoever.

Since Rijkaard, there has been two great coaches; Pep and Enrique, two decent to bad ones in Tata and Valverde, and one bad one in Koeman.
 

ajnotkeith

Senior Member
Was Quique, Tato and Valverde also nails in the same coffin? Koeman was the only historical disappointment lately, and he had a 20 year track record.

Xavi will be great. He should be given a lot of time, and if he doesn't work out, give it to someone like Pimienta.
He lost in the AFC CL against three powerhouses according to that text, once after an early red card, once against a hyper-defensive team that scored a late set piece, and once they only was the fourth best second placed team in the group stage, with 10p and the same goal difference but two less goals compared to the third placed team that went through.
The text does not mention that the first year loss was with the smallest margin in the semi final against the team that later won the final.

Pimienta and Xavi are from the same mold. Their only managerial experience is managing in very weak leagues with teams way better then the competition and have the same excuses made for their failures like you are doing (early red card, hyper-defensive team, lost on penalties etc) and their only actual qualification for the job is that they're 'Barca DNA'.

If another subsidiary manager in SegundaB got knocked out 2 years in a row with a laughably good team like Pimienta had for two years, in a third division, full of players who now play in LaLiga, Ligue 1, Serie A, Primera Liga who would call for them to manage Barca? What did they do? That team should have walked Segunda B and it had plenty of experience too. The only reason Pimienta is suggested as a Barca manager is because he was a La Masia coach.

Xavi same situation. Has the pick of the domestic crop far better than any of his competition in a very weak league and has foreigners who would look more in place in LaLiga than Qatar. Again the same excuses are made, early red card, faced a defensive team, when he faces Alaves away and loses will he tell the media they're a defensive team? These managers have no credentials other than they are legends/coached in Barca and that is not how you appoint a coach for a top team lol.
 
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khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Yesterday I was talking to a friend who lives in Qatar and works in their preparation for 2022 WC hosting. He said he actually attended all Al-Sadd home games in Asian cup as he was one of the organizers of such games. He also watches some if Qatari league matches but not regularly
He said while Xavi isn't bad, his work lacks the "wow" factor, especially considering the squad which is actually very good considering the competition.


His biggest worry was Xavi has soft spot for some players, specifically named Abdelkarim Hassan who was Qatar best defender when they won Asian cup in 2019, but has huge dip in form under Xavi but he was still always starter as long as he was healthy, despite having better players on better form.

This particular note get me worried, especially when we discuss Xavi relation with the likes of Busquets/Roberto/Pique.


OTOH, he said in Qatar they already believe November 4th is his last day, and fans are already preparing to attend his last training session with the club
 

ajnotkeith

Senior Member
Yesterday I was talking to a friend who lives in Qatar and works in their preparation for 2022 WC hosting. He said he actually attended all Al-Sadd home games in Asian cup as he was one of the organizers of such games. He also watches some if Qatari league matches but not regularly
He said while Xavi isn't bad, his work lacks the "wow" factor, especially considering the squad which is actually very good considering the competition.


His biggest worry was Xavi has soft spot for some players, specifically named Abdelkarim Hassan who was Qatar best defender when they won Asian cup in 2019, but has huge dip in form under Xavi but he was still always starter as long as he was healthy, despite having better players on better form.

This particular note get me worried, especially when we discuss Xavi relation with the likes of Busquets/Roberto/Pique.


OTOH, he said in Qatar they already believe November 4th is his last day, and fans are already preparing to attend his last training session with the club

Xavi will be worse with the youth than Koeman was 100%
 

Bobo32

Senior Member
Pimienta and Xavi are from the same mold. Their only managerial experience is managing in very weak leagues with teams way better then the competition and have the same excuses made for their failures like you are doing (early red card, hyper-defensive team, lost on penalties etc) and their only actual qualification for the job is that they're 'Barca DNA'.

If another subsidiary manager in SegundaB got knocked out 2 years in a row with a laughably good team like Pimienta had for two years, in a third division, full of players who now play in LaLiga, Ligue 1, Serie A, Primera Liga who would call for them to manage Barca? What did they do? That team should have walked Segunda B and it had plenty of experience too. The only reason Pimienta is suggested as a Barca manager is because he was a La Masia coach.

Xavi same situation. Has the pick of the domestic crop far better than any of his competition in a very weak league and has foreigners who would look more in place in LaLiga than Qatar. Again the same excuses are made, early red card, faced a defensive team, when he faces Alaves away and loses will he tell the media they're a defensive team? These managers have no credentials other than they are legends/coached in Barca and that is not how you appoint a coach for a top team lol.

Al-Sadd hadn't won the league since 12-13 before Xavi arrived though. He has won it 2/3 times, and the year he didn't win, he won 3 cups (something that hadn't been done since 06-07) He got to a CL semi final, something the club had done 3 times in its history before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sadd_SC#Season-by-season

Barcelona B has this historical performance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona_B#Season_to_season
They played good football last year under Pimienta.

It's not excuses, the one picking out a handful of losses over a 3-year period and arguing out of them is the one making excuses. Pick any coach and I am able to do the same.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Couldn't really care what Xavi does in Qatar and the Asian Champions League. He's not my first choice for the job but if he's able to get a team playing cohesive and organised football then it's already a start.

Plus I think another poster already mentioned it and I can't remember who but it's a positive in the fact it could be a great appointment, or a positive that if he fails it's probably the nail in the coffin for every manager needing some Barcelona history to get the job.

Same.

True, if Xavi is as bad as Koeman and makes us a midtable team basically, it will make us switch the approach and go after managers from outside the club. If he makes us competitive again at the top, it's a different story.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Al-Sadd hadn't won the league since 12-13 before Xavi arrived though. He has won it 2/3 times, and the year he didn't win, he won 3 cups (something that hadn't been done since 06-07) He got to a CL semi final, something the club had done 3 times in its history before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sadd_SC#Season-by-season

Barcelona B has this historical performance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona_B#Season_to_season
They played good football last year under Pimienta.

It's not excuses, the one picking out a handful of losses over a 3-year period and arguing out of them is the one making excuses. Pick any coach and I am able to do the same.

Xavi coached them for 2 years (current season is 3rd) , lost 1st one and won it 2nd time. They were actually league champions in his last year as a player, coached by Jesualdo Ferreira who is one of the best coaches in the middle east.
Results in Asian cup is actually worse after he became a coach, since they finished in round of 16 and group stage twice under him, after being in SF twice in Ferreira last year
I am not sure if you are counting Xavi work as a player there or confusing when did he start his coaching career.
 

Bobo32

Senior Member
Xavi coached them for 2 years (current season is 3rd) , lost 1st one and won it 2nd time. They were actually league champions in his last year as a player, coached by Jesualdo Ferreira who is one of the best coaches in the middle east.
I am not sure if you are counting Xavi work as a player there or confusing when did he start his coaching career.

Nah sorry, confused things then, as the text that was copied mentioned three CL seasons.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Xavi coached them for 2 years (current season is 3rd) , lost 1st one and won it 2nd time. They were actually league champions in his last year as a player, coached by Jesualdo Ferreira who is one of the best coaches in the middle east.
I am not sure if you are counting Xavi work as a player there or confusing when did he start his coaching career.

It would have been a miracle for Xavi to win the title in his first season as a manager with tactics that those Qatar players never even heard of before probably.

I don't care about his work in Qatar, but last season and this season his record there in the league is pretty spotless. Undefeated, won the title with 13 points difference from 2nd place.

Manchester City finished 16 points off first place in the Premier League under Guardiola in his first season. Was very close to even miss CL places. So, it's pretty obvious that for every manager the first season it's very tough to get your tactics across, fully assimilated by players.

Klopp finished with Liverpool what, 8th place in his first (incomplete) season or something?
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
It would have been a miracle for Xavi to win the title in his first season as a manager with tactics that those Qatar players never even heard of before probably.

I don't care about his work in Qatar, but last season and this season his record there in the league is pretty spotless. Undefeated, won the title with 13 points difference from 2nd place.

Manchester City finished 16 points off first place in the Premier League under Guardiola in his first season. Was very close to even miss CL places.

Seems like Qatar doesnt matter... unless it is mentioned when he does well.

Guardiola took over a City team that made CL on goal difference and lost league to Leicester.

Xavi from what has been said above took over the champions.
 

ajnotkeith

Senior Member
Al-Sadd hadn't won the league since 12-13 before Xavi arrived though. He has won it 2/3 times, and the year he didn't win, he won 3 cups (something that hadn't been done since 06-07) He got to a CL semi final, something the club had done 3 times in its history before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sadd_SC#Season-by-season

Barcelona B has this historical performance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona_B#Season_to_season
They played good football last year under Pimienta.

It's not excuses, the one picking out a handful of losses over a 3-year period and arguing out of them is the one making excuses. Pick any coach and I am able to do the same.

So from 2010 onwards Barca B has mostly been in Segunda. When we were about to relegate Pimienta took over and many signings of older players were made, giving the squad by far the best talent in the league for the 3rd division the next season along with experience. Didn't get them promoted.

Pimienta had one of the oldest teams B has ever played against UCAM. Even when we were in Segunda with Gerard Lopez who was accused of not playing younger players the team was younger, despite how much people praise Pimienta for playing youth. It is like the revisionism with Koeman where people say he doesn't trust young players despite the majority getting way more chances than they would elsewhere and only a few not getting much time.

In older Barca B squads you wouldn't see 26 year old Riera, 24 year old Manaj, 22 year old Collado, 23 year old Matheus, 22 year old Inaki all take the field at the same time. And that was in the 3rd division, not the 2nd where it can be argued that you need more experienced players (we didn't do that even with Lopez).

So basically he played with a Barca B with a ton of players with little first-team potential that were way better than the level and didn't produce results. Even in the youth that have gone up to the first-team under him, there isn't many he is responsible for is there? The most 'successful' ones like Mingueza or Araujo are guys he didn't actually like and in case of Mingueza he warmed the bench for Pimienta in the third division.

The only established player in the first-team that he had a hand in developing is Araujo.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
Seems like Qatar doesnt matter... unless it is mentioned when he does well.

Guardiola took over a City team that made CL on goal difference and lost league to Leicester.

Xavi from what has been said above Xavi took over champions.

Did Xavi continue to play when he became manager? If he didn't, there you go, I reckon he was probably by far their best player.

What he did in Qatar doesn't matter for his Barca career, but people still use it to criticize him, while looking at the situation from an angle to suit their bias. Xavi's campaign from last season was their best in decades probably right? Have they finished the season undefeated before?
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Did Xavi continue to play when he became manager? If he didn't, there you go, I reckon he was by far their best player.

Haha fair excuses.

Dont compare Xavi in Qatar to Pep in City. Not a good look.

Making all these 'reasons' when never watched a single game of Xavi in Qatar is some shout.
 
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