10 - Lionel Messi - v1
- Thread starter Evil
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footyfan
Calma, calma
He shouldn't be dribbling in midfield when there's less cover behind him. But then again, he loses the ball in Barca's attacking half, we should be able to block these attacks before a shot is taken (today it was a bullshit penalty but whatever). We can't be blaming him for these. I've seen Iniesta lose possession and the opposition create dangerous attacks from those errors. But no one talks about it (which is the right thing to do) but they'll talk about it when it's Messi because they want to find whatever faults that they believe exist.
Me55i D105
New member
It has happened yes, but you can't blame him. His job is to dissect their defense and create chances with dribbles because otherwise it will be a standstill. Therefore he is allowed to lose the ball on occasions, the question should be why isn't our defense having better positioning and defending better. I would blame Guardiola and Tito the most for those counter attack goals, since they put defensive midfielders as fullbacks, that just doesn't cut it against certain teams. We need really fullbacks that are born to do it, or have done it their whole life.
Song isn't a defender, he cross ball or through passes are really good and he should play, when Busquets doesn't play. In my opinion Bartra should've started and then maybe swap if he does it bad, and not play song as first option.
Me55i D105
New member
According to RAC1 the ref didn't give him the matchball even though he scored a hattrickwhat an absolute douche.
Seriously? Is he even allowed to do that? Really bad from his side, seeing as how he did a poor job the whol 90 minutes.
Garrus
New member
If messi isn't allowed to take on opponents, Then who the f*ck should?, This guy is the best dribbler in football history, With all due respect this wasn't a smart comment.
M
messi_xavi_iniesta
Guest
Today? Don´t remember. That´s the job of the defenders and busquets. Messi plays with maximum risk. I forgive him everything
MMKa
New member
There must be two trophies next year like in Argentina Best footballer: one for Messi and one for others.
And, Messi has now scored over goal per game in his last 200 official matches in FC Barcelona (201 goals plus about 90 assists). Who was the last to score this much?
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M
messi_xavi_iniesta
Guest
smart is a nice word.....
70 goals and counting. The world record is close. Another hat trick on tuesday against the scots.
Me55i D105
New member
Found this:
"Messi in the end got the match ball the referee didn't want to give him at the end of the match #fcblive For scoring hat-trick [rac1] "
Wonder what it took to persuade him, stupid ref.
"Messi in the end got the match ball the referee didn't want to give him at the end of the match #fcblive For scoring hat-trick [rac1] "
Wonder what it took to persuade him, stupid ref.
Papabeef
New member
Not supposed to tell but i heard he got him a more expensive "Rolex" than the one he got in the morning from Florentino Perez.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
That ref was/is a prick. How come Barca have never taken RFEF to CAS. Some of the bias is so blatent and it happens season after season.
Messi is the best of all time. If Ronaldo wins the Balon D'Or I will puke. No other player can do what Messi does. He is from another planet.
Messi is the best of all time. If Ronaldo wins the Balon D'Or I will puke. No other player can do what Messi does. He is from another planet.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
If Messi doesnt try and dribble you lose half of his effectiveness. What do you want him to do?? Pass sideways and have the meaningless tiki taka???????????? We give him that liberty so he can score and create chances. Yes, he is going to lose the ball but our douchebag defence can at least try and defend-thats what they are paid for!
hemakesmemessi
New member
Tiki Taka is never meaningless, philistine! Have the last four year taught us nothing of football?
Messi saves the day and astounds once again. I just love watching him. The whole team deserves praise for some fantastic forward play tonight, especially when we had 11 men.
lessthanjake
New member
Messi is insanely good, probably the best player ever, but I DO wonder if his play-style stops Barca from having any other effective forwards.
Last season, Ronaldo-Higuain-Benzema scored 118 goals. Messi-Villa-Pedro (98 goals), Messi-Eto'o-Henry (100 goals), Messi-Ibrahimovic-Henry/Pedro (95 goals), and Messi-Alexis-Pedro (101 goals, though this was just an injury/form ravaged year for non-Messi Barca forwards) never did that. It seems that the front three in a Messi team pretty much are going to get ~100 goals in a season no matter what. And this isn't for lack of having other good forwards. Villa, Ibrahimovic, Eto'o, Henry, and even Pedro/Alexis to a less extent, are all world-class strikers.
However, especially since the 2009-2010 season when Messi moved to the center of the pitch, these world-class strikers have had a tough time producing. Henry only scored 4 goals in 32 appearances in 2009-2010. David Villa has only 35 goals in 82 appearance for Barca (0.427 goals an appearance), after scoring 128 goals in 212 matches for Valencia (0.601 goals an appearance). Ibrahimovic only scored 22 goals in 46 appearances for Barcelona (0.478 goals an appearance), but in the 2 years prior and 2+ seasons since, he has scored 117 goals in 174 matches (0.672 goals an appearance). Both Alexis and Pedro struggled with their form a lot last season. While there ARE other reasons contributing to these issues in every case, the fact remains that multiple world-class strikers have had a tough time producing alongside Messi. This is evident from watching them as much as it is from the numbers themselves.
This shouldn't be the case entirely. Yes, Messi takes up the center of the pitch and is the focal point, so he will take up a lot of the goalscoring chances. He also takes the penalties. HOWEVER, Messi also falls back into midfield a lot, leaving space for these strikers, and he is an excellent playmaker who can serve up assists to these guys. Meanwhile, the rest of the Barca team creates more overall chances than any other team any of those guys have played for. There are a lot of chances to go around.
I think in order to get the best out of Messi, you need to put him in the false nine role. However, the positions you put around false nines (wing attackers who cut in) are not positions that natural goalscorers are comfortable in. So you have three options:
1). Try to play Messi in the false nine with a striker in front of him. Barcelona tried this with Ibrahimovic and it seemed to crowd both men's space too much
2). Put natural strikers in the wing roles. Barcelona tried this with Villa and sort of with Henry. These guys found it tough to replicate their goalscoring exploits from the wings.
3). Put natural wing players in the wing roles. Barcelona tried this with Alexis. The problem is that natural wing players are not great goalscorers, so while Alexis did not score less than he had before he came to Barca, he didn't score as a Barcelona forward should.
There are no great options. I'm not saying Messi shouldn't be put in the false nine role. He produces there like no other player in history has produced. However, I think there IS a point to be made that Ronaldo scores so much while playing on the wing with productive strikers around him. When Messi played on the wings (prior to the 2009-2010 season), he scored a lot less, but the strikers around him (Eto'o and Henry) scored a ton as well (62 goals from Eto'o/Henry in the 2008-2009 season). Maybe those guys were just having great seasons that could be replicated even with Messi being in a false nine role, but I'm not sure given the evidence. Benzema and Higuain got 58 goals last season. Villa and Pedro got 45 in 2010-2011, Alexis and Pedro got 28 last year, Ibrahimovic and Pedro/Henry got 48 in 2009-2010. Seems the false nine role has made Messi MUCH better but at a fairly significant cost to the rest of the front three's effectiveness.
Last season, Ronaldo-Higuain-Benzema scored 118 goals. Messi-Villa-Pedro (98 goals), Messi-Eto'o-Henry (100 goals), Messi-Ibrahimovic-Henry/Pedro (95 goals), and Messi-Alexis-Pedro (101 goals, though this was just an injury/form ravaged year for non-Messi Barca forwards) never did that. It seems that the front three in a Messi team pretty much are going to get ~100 goals in a season no matter what. And this isn't for lack of having other good forwards. Villa, Ibrahimovic, Eto'o, Henry, and even Pedro/Alexis to a less extent, are all world-class strikers.
However, especially since the 2009-2010 season when Messi moved to the center of the pitch, these world-class strikers have had a tough time producing. Henry only scored 4 goals in 32 appearances in 2009-2010. David Villa has only 35 goals in 82 appearance for Barca (0.427 goals an appearance), after scoring 128 goals in 212 matches for Valencia (0.601 goals an appearance). Ibrahimovic only scored 22 goals in 46 appearances for Barcelona (0.478 goals an appearance), but in the 2 years prior and 2+ seasons since, he has scored 117 goals in 174 matches (0.672 goals an appearance). Both Alexis and Pedro struggled with their form a lot last season. While there ARE other reasons contributing to these issues in every case, the fact remains that multiple world-class strikers have had a tough time producing alongside Messi. This is evident from watching them as much as it is from the numbers themselves.
This shouldn't be the case entirely. Yes, Messi takes up the center of the pitch and is the focal point, so he will take up a lot of the goalscoring chances. He also takes the penalties. HOWEVER, Messi also falls back into midfield a lot, leaving space for these strikers, and he is an excellent playmaker who can serve up assists to these guys. Meanwhile, the rest of the Barca team creates more overall chances than any other team any of those guys have played for. There are a lot of chances to go around.
I think in order to get the best out of Messi, you need to put him in the false nine role. However, the positions you put around false nines (wing attackers who cut in) are not positions that natural goalscorers are comfortable in. So you have three options:
1). Try to play Messi in the false nine with a striker in front of him. Barcelona tried this with Ibrahimovic and it seemed to crowd both men's space too much
2). Put natural strikers in the wing roles. Barcelona tried this with Villa and sort of with Henry. These guys found it tough to replicate their goalscoring exploits from the wings.
3). Put natural wing players in the wing roles. Barcelona tried this with Alexis. The problem is that natural wing players are not great goalscorers, so while Alexis did not score less than he had before he came to Barca, he didn't score as a Barcelona forward should.
There are no great options. I'm not saying Messi shouldn't be put in the false nine role. He produces there like no other player in history has produced. However, I think there IS a point to be made that Ronaldo scores so much while playing on the wing with productive strikers around him. When Messi played on the wings (prior to the 2009-2010 season), he scored a lot less, but the strikers around him (Eto'o and Henry) scored a ton as well (62 goals from Eto'o/Henry in the 2008-2009 season). Maybe those guys were just having great seasons that could be replicated even with Messi being in a false nine role, but I'm not sure given the evidence. Benzema and Higuain got 58 goals last season. Villa and Pedro got 45 in 2010-2011, Alexis and Pedro got 28 last year, Ibrahimovic and Pedro/Henry got 48 in 2009-2010. Seems the false nine role has made Messi MUCH better but at a fairly significant cost to the rest of the front three's effectiveness.
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