Complete? How? more athletic? I agree, better header? I also agree, but in every single aspect of the game, passing, shooting, assisting, free kicks, Ronaldo can't even sniff Leoand a more complete player
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10 - Lionel Messi - v2
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
This 'Ronaldo is the more complete player' argument is something his fans cling to when it is clearly a load of bollocks.
Messi could play right wing, left wing, behind a striker, center forward and center midfield and still be the best player in the world. He affects the game in more ways - passing, creating, scoring, dribbling etc.
The idea that Ronaldo is more complete because he is faster, bigger, stronger etc is like claiming Tom Huddelstone is a more complete player than Xavi.
Messi could play right wing, left wing, behind a striker, center forward and center midfield and still be the best player in the world. He affects the game in more ways - passing, creating, scoring, dribbling etc.
The idea that Ronaldo is more complete because he is faster, bigger, stronger etc is like claiming Tom Huddelstone is a more complete player than Xavi.
KhaledBarca
New member
Cristiano more complete is the biggest joke of all-time.
Messi is 10 times better at passing, assisting and dribbling. Although Cristiano has been a great goal-scorer since joining Real Madrid, Messi is the better finisher (goals/games, goals/shots)!
These are the main attributes for comparing two forwards, scoring by head/both-footed/long-range are all under the finishing category, in which Messi also beats CR.
EDIT: Also, some pundits and analyzers always tend to mention that CR is physically better, that's rubbish! Who cares if he has more muscles when he falls down after the first contact (some times even without any contact), while Messi is the player who gets fouled once and twice before falling to ground! Messi is very underrated in this aspect!
Messi is 10 times better at passing, assisting and dribbling. Although Cristiano has been a great goal-scorer since joining Real Madrid, Messi is the better finisher (goals/games, goals/shots)!
These are the main attributes for comparing two forwards, scoring by head/both-footed/long-range are all under the finishing category, in which Messi also beats CR.
EDIT: Also, some pundits and analyzers always tend to mention that CR is physically better, that's rubbish! Who cares if he has more muscles when he falls down after the first contact (some times even without any contact), while Messi is the player who gets fouled once and twice before falling to ground! Messi is very underrated in this aspect!
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Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Complete? How? more athletic? I agree, better header? I also agree, but in every single aspect of the game, passing, shooting, assisting, free kicks, Ronaldo can't even sniff Leo
Just to play devil's advocate, CR7 is not that far behind Messi in assists, I think people tend to think he only cares to take the shot himself all the time. Yesterday against Osauna the Isco goal was the result of a brilliant pass from CR7.
Also, in terms of FKs, I think CR7 has the slight edge. He scored two or three FKs this season already I think, Messi's last FK goal was last season?
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Hmm, not Xavi, not Iniesta, not Cesc? Does anyone have the list?
Ghost
New member
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So much for comparing Messi and CR when it came to assisting, somebody just killed your argument
What brilliant pass did Ronaldo make? What game did you watch because I watched a Ronaldo dribbling past players(something that he rarely does and I was surprised when I saw it) and passes it to Isco who was OUTSIDE the penalty box and he had to shoot it or else defenders were gonna close in on him?? Are you calling it brilliant?? really? Isco was the brilliant one here, he capatalized from a "good"(notice how I said good, not brilliant) assist from Ronaldo, and he capitalized brilliantly. Leo's assists are the one's that I'd call "brilliant", because almost the majority of them are quality. Shame you have forgotten and dare to compare Ronaldo with Leo when it comes to being a play maker...
Ronaldo being good at free kicks is almost a myth, while he's good at it sometimes, I'd take Leo over him because you could tell Messi has better accuracy when it comes to shots in general, I'd take accuracy over power any day of the week.
opps should have pulled that chart out in my previous post, would have saved me timeLast 3 seasons. As of May 4th, 2013:
astonishing what leo does, not only is he a quality goal scorer, he defeats the other great goal scorer, that being Ronaldo, who mostly specializes on scoring goals, and is almost the assist leader in all Europe...
Wow, if that's not great, I don't know what is
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CatalinR10
Senior Member
in every single aspect of the game, passing, shooting, assisting, free kicks, Ronaldo can't even sniff Leo
Ronaldo is a great player in his own right, but I think people have forgotten what Messi could do when he's 100%, its been so long, he needs to refresh people's minds
because when he is, Ronaldo seems quite ordinary.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
So much for comparing Messi and CR when it came to assisting, somebody just killed your argument
What brilliant pass did Ronaldo make? What game did you watch because I watched a Ronaldo dribbling past players(something that he rarely does and I was surprised when I saw it) and passes it to Isco who was OUTSIDE the penalty box and he had to shoot it or else defenders were gonna close in on him?? Are you calling it brilliant?? really? Isco was the brilliant one here, he capatalized from a "good"(notice how I said good, not brilliant) assist from Ronaldo, and he capitalized brilliantly. Leo's assists are the one's that I'd call "brilliant", because almost the majority of them are quality. Shame you have forgotten and dare to compare Ronaldo with Leo when it comes to being a play maker...
Ronaldo being good at free kicks is almost a myth, while he's good at it sometimes, I'd take Leo over him because you could tell Messi has better accuracy when it comes to shots in general, I'd take accuracy over power any day of the week.
Brilliant in the sense that he did not choose to keep dribbling or taking the shot himself as he normally does, and he sensed Isco was in a good position to score and he passed the ball. This is not quality?
Yes Messi is more accurate in general, but in terms of PK I don't know how you could claim CR7 can't even sniff Messi. Does Messi have a far more superior record and accuracy than CR7, when it comes to taking FKs?
lessthanjake
New member
1. One problem with the "Ronaldo is more complete" argument is that it confuses inputs for outputs.
Let me explain. It is obviously helpful to have a player who can score well with both feet, from range, with headers, etc. Why? Well it gives the player more ways to score. It makes it harder to key in on one aspect of his game and shut that down. This is good because it will allow that player to score more goals than he otherwise would. Thus, being "complete" is just an input that helps achieve the output of getting lots of goals.
However, if there is a player who can only score in one way but STILL scores more than the "complete" player, there is no reason to take the "complete" player. The incomplete player gives you better output, and that is, ultimately, all we care about. Being a complete goalscorer is only worth something because it allows the player to get more goals; it does not have value independent of that. Ronaldo fans act like it does have independent value.
Thus, you COULD argue that Ronaldo is a more complete goalscorer than Messi (I am not sure I agree with that, but it is certainly a defensible argument). However, Messi STILL is a better goalscorer. Anyone would rather take more goals from a less complete goalscorer than fewer goals from a complete goalscorer. Thus, anyone would take Messi, regardless of who is more complete.
2. Another big problem with the "Ronaldo is more complete" argument is that it is focused on a really micro-level.
Ronaldo supporters say he is more complete because he can do a lot of very specific things well. He can head better than Messi, maybe kick FKs better, can shoot from long range better, etc. Ultimately, though, these are really small categories. As I just mentioned, these categories all belong under the larger umbrella of goalscoring, which Messi is better at regardless of how "complete" a goalscorer he is.
Once you get outside of the goalscoring umbrella, there are other categories that matter as well. Specifically, passing, dribbling, helping out with defense, etc. Messi is clearly a better passer and dribbler than Ronaldo. And while both slack a bit, I would argue that Messi helps get possession back more than Ronaldo.
Thus, when you look at it from a broader perspective, Messi is clearly the more complete player since he is better in all the different phases of the game.
3. To wrap up, let me give a hypothetical that illustrates what Ronaldo fans are arguing and why it is silly. Let's say there are two players with the following stats:
Player A
50 goals; All scored in the same way.
25 assists
Player B
40 goals; 10 scored with his head, 15 with his right foot, 15 with his left foot, many from long range.
10 assists
Player A is clearly the BETTER player. He gets you more goals and more assists and that is ultimately all that matters. Furthermore, Player B may be a more complete goalscorer, but Player A seems to be the more complete player since he is better at goalscoring and passing.
Let me explain. It is obviously helpful to have a player who can score well with both feet, from range, with headers, etc. Why? Well it gives the player more ways to score. It makes it harder to key in on one aspect of his game and shut that down. This is good because it will allow that player to score more goals than he otherwise would. Thus, being "complete" is just an input that helps achieve the output of getting lots of goals.
However, if there is a player who can only score in one way but STILL scores more than the "complete" player, there is no reason to take the "complete" player. The incomplete player gives you better output, and that is, ultimately, all we care about. Being a complete goalscorer is only worth something because it allows the player to get more goals; it does not have value independent of that. Ronaldo fans act like it does have independent value.
Thus, you COULD argue that Ronaldo is a more complete goalscorer than Messi (I am not sure I agree with that, but it is certainly a defensible argument). However, Messi STILL is a better goalscorer. Anyone would rather take more goals from a less complete goalscorer than fewer goals from a complete goalscorer. Thus, anyone would take Messi, regardless of who is more complete.
2. Another big problem with the "Ronaldo is more complete" argument is that it is focused on a really micro-level.
Ronaldo supporters say he is more complete because he can do a lot of very specific things well. He can head better than Messi, maybe kick FKs better, can shoot from long range better, etc. Ultimately, though, these are really small categories. As I just mentioned, these categories all belong under the larger umbrella of goalscoring, which Messi is better at regardless of how "complete" a goalscorer he is.
Once you get outside of the goalscoring umbrella, there are other categories that matter as well. Specifically, passing, dribbling, helping out with defense, etc. Messi is clearly a better passer and dribbler than Ronaldo. And while both slack a bit, I would argue that Messi helps get possession back more than Ronaldo.
Thus, when you look at it from a broader perspective, Messi is clearly the more complete player since he is better in all the different phases of the game.
3. To wrap up, let me give a hypothetical that illustrates what Ronaldo fans are arguing and why it is silly. Let's say there are two players with the following stats:
Player A
50 goals; All scored in the same way.
25 assists
Player B
40 goals; 10 scored with his head, 15 with his right foot, 15 with his left foot, many from long range.
10 assists
Player A is clearly the BETTER player. He gets you more goals and more assists and that is ultimately all that matters. Furthermore, Player B may be a more complete goalscorer, but Player A seems to be the more complete player since he is better at goalscoring and passing.
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