10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Luftstalag14]

Greatness isn't an accident, it's a mindset, the will to dominate no matter if it's Iran, Rayo Vallecan or Madrid and Brazil. It's that aspect of Messi's game that is missing at times and most importantly in the past it was never an issue.

This. x 10000

 

[Irish_Cules]

This video is amazing. Gotta love the Argies.

 

[Luftstalag14]

I'd sell my entire WWII German collection to get my hands on this very jersey. So beautiful.

 

[Icarium]

If you want Messi to press more and run more off the ball, then demand for his team mates to pick up the slack in other areas. You want Messi to run more, to press more, and to defend more, fine, however understand there is a tradeoff to that. That energy he'll spend doing this, means a drop in finishing, means sloppier touches and more errant passes. It means less late game heroics because the player is going to be running on fumes towards the end of the game.

There is a reason that as Messi's work rate declined, his scoring output and his efficiency increased. Even despite the downward trend in the team's overall performance. He conserved his energy to be a better and more reliable scorer.

You want more work rate and sacrifice from him, ok. But be prepapred to deal with the tradeoff. Be prepared to supplement that tradeoff with other players.

+1

He would not have what he did in both games if he was running like mad man. When argentina loses you can blame him (Even then you should not, but BF people exception), but they are winning only because of him. He is literally dragging the team. If he has Xavi and Iniesta in prime with him in argentina. You will see completely different messi the 2010-11 one. Not saying he needs xavi and iniesta to perform well but playing 1 touch football helps him make smart moves and drag defenders out that gives him space. But when he has to do everything it gets little hard. More harder when opposition park the bus.

Tell me one player name who can dribble his way through the bus and score a goal. That is why he is saving energy for last minutes when the opponents are most vulnerable and tired. I call that smart. Di maria ran a lot but he was frustrating most of time making wrong choices. Messi would be criticized if he did that. No matter what he is being criticized, just shut the fuck up people and enjoy the magic that is lionel messi.

 

[Luftstalag14]

A nice story about Dioner Navarro, Toronto Blue Jay's catcher, a die-hard Cule and Messi fan, who wears the Barca Messi and Argentina Messi jersey to work:

Blue Jays' Navarro thrilled by Messi goal

Blue Jays backstop Dioner Navarro catches World Cup fever

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

That energy he'll spend doing this, means a drop in finishing, means sloppier touches and more errant passes. It means less late game heroics because the player is going to be running on fumes towards the end of the game.

There is a reason that as Messi's work rate declined, his scoring output and his efficiency increased. Even despite the downward trend in the team's overall performance. He conserved his energy to be a better and more reliable scorer.

You want more work rate and sacrifice from him, ok. But be prepapred to deal with the tradeoff. Be prepared to supplement that tradeoff with other players.

There's a fine and fairly reconizable line between playing the defensive side of the game and running yourself into the ground from effort. Never suggested he run about like Rooney or Tevez with his head cut off.

The perfect example is Iniesta. Not known for his ball winning skills by any means but he still puts in the effort and tries to be in the right place. His physical attributes obviously don't make him a Makalele in that department but he every now and then he wins a tackle and launches an attack off of a transition.

That's all I'm asking Messi to do and it will only help him create even more chances to score goals. When the play is away from Messi, I have no problem with him walking a bit and conserving himself then but when the ball is in a 15 foot radius of him, he needs to put in some defensive effort for the sake of the team. There are times when he watches and walks while an opponent has the ball right in front of him. Nonsense, any other striker in the world would be pressing at least slightly to win the ball back and right now Messi rarely does that.

At Barça if this means "less heroics" but it helps the team stay organized and compact off the ball, if anything it helps put players like Neymar and Alexis to be the hero.

The team in general needs to be less Messi centric and Messi needs to put in more effort off the ball for the team. That's not asking too much and it's the mentality Lucho needs to encorporate into the entire team next season, including Messi.

Still Messiah tho, no doubt. His two golazos have been gems and I hope he kicks it up when the chips are down later in the tournament.

 

[DonAndres]

I don't think Messi's effort to win the ball has been the issue because it's a generally smart move by a coach to ensure that someone like Messi doesn't get worn out by defensive work. It's that over the past 2 years or so, his general effort has declined and ultimately effects his offensive play a lot too these days. Coaches (namely Tata) have let him off the leash so much that there's no external entity that's compelling him to move even when the team is in possession.

I've seen a lot of instances where the passing play is right where he is but he looks like he's completely unfocused until someone decides to play it to his feet. That downward trend started in 12/13 under Tito, but had become far worse under Tata when he stopped being our sole outlet and we ended up just playing down the wings and crossing it. At least under Tito he saw enough of the ball so that his off the ball game didn't really put a dent in his output but now it has (for Barca) and that is a true issue. He is our top scorer but cmon Leo is a legend and to only expect that of him is the absolute minimum, the bottom of the barrel. Leo dominating like he did in 11/12 or 2012 as a whole is what he's capable and what we should strive to get out of him.

For this World Cup, I doubt we'll see him suddenly start moving off the ball more than usual. That's an issue that'll have to be approached more carefully and proactively in preseason with Lucho rather than Sabella trying to knee-jerk it in the middle of the tournament. The key for the WC is to push the play in a direction that allows Leo to see more of the ball naturally and thus become more active like he was in the 2nd half vs Bosnia. Create space by having the plays be constantly quick and vertical, give him the ball in those midfield/attacking positions, and you'll see him dominate the game while his general lack of effort in slow buildup doesn't become an issue. In that scenario he'll be running with the ball at defenses a majority of the time, no room for him to go all Walka Walka.

I truly wonder how much of a powerhouse Argentina would be if Sampaoli were coach instead of Sabella. His system would be so brutally effective on counterattacks that Argentina's midfield/defense issues are muted and the 4 attackers just wreak havoc all day against any tier of opposition. He'd get the most out of industrial ball winners like Gago and Masch while making transition runners like Messi and Di Maria into as deadly weapons as they could possibly be. Messi himself would be way too engaged to shut off and walk around.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Pretty annoying when people analyze, dissect and scrutinize every single minutiae of Messi's game.

Oh he should run X instead of Y amount.
Oh he should pass instead of shoot.
Oh he should play like this instead of that.
Oh he just spit on the floor, he must be sick.
Oh he just ignored a handshake from a kid.
Oh he demanded a change in formation from his coach.
Oh his goal took a deflection off the defender, it must be an own goal.
Oh he looks sad.
Oh he didn't smile, he must be unhappy.
Oh he's not running like a bat out of hell, he must have declined or lost his passion for the game.

Just give it a rest.

How about, Argentina have played like shit as a team and without Messi's individual heroics they would have 2 points instead of 6. How about that?!?!?!?

x 1000, what a lot of negativity in this thread

 

[Jägermeister]

x 1000, what a lot of negativity in this thread

Not negativity, but criticism.
Hating and just screaming "he sucks" or "sell him" is stupid.
Criticizing by analysing what he does is totally fine.

 

[Leo10]

Messi
Goals scored: 1
Shots: 6
Delivery/Solo runs into the attacking third: 17
Delivery/Solo runs into the penalty area: 4
Tackles suffered losing the ball: 1
Tackles suffered not losing the ball: 3

Di Maria
Goals scored: 0
Shots: 4
Delivery/Solo runs into the attacking third: 8
Delivery/Solo runs into the penalty area: 8
Tackles suffered losing the ball: 0
Tackles suffered not losing the ball: 6

Higuain
Goals scored: 0
Shots: 1
Delivery/Solo runs into the attacking third: 1
Delivery/Solo runs into the penalty area: 1
Tackles suffered losing the ball: 0
Tackles suffered not losing the ball: 1

Aguero
Goals scored: 0
Shots: 1
Delivery/Solo runs into the attacking third: 1
Delivery/Solo runs into the penalty area: 1
Tackles suffered losing the ball: 0
Tackles suffered not losing the ball: 0

 

[serghei]

I don't think Messi's effort to win the ball has been the issue because it's a generally smart move by a coach to ensure that someone like Messi doesn't get worn out by defensive work. It's that over the past 2 years or so, his general effort has declined and ultimately effects his offensive play a lot too these days. Coaches (namely Tata) have let him off the leash so much that there's no external entity that's compelling him to move even when the team is in possession.

I've seen a lot of instances where the passing play is right where he is but he looks like he's completely unfocused until someone decides to play it to his feet. That downward trend started in 12/13 under Tito, but had become far worse under Tata when he stopped being our sole outlet and we ended up just playing down the wings and crossing it. At least under Tito he saw enough of the ball so that his off the ball game didn't really put a dent in his output but now it has (for Barca) and that is a true issue. He is our top scorer but cmon Leo is a legend and to only expect that of him is the absolute minimum, the bottom of the barrel. Leo dominating like he did in 11/12 or 2012 as a whole is what he's capable and what we should strive to get out of him.

For this World Cup, I doubt we'll see him suddenly start moving off the ball more than usual. That's an issue that'll have to be approached more carefully and proactively in preseason with Lucho rather than Sabella trying to knee-jerk it in the middle of the tournament. The key for the WC is to push the play in a direction that allows Leo to see more of the ball naturally and thus become more active like he was in the 2nd half vs Bosnia. Create space by having the plays be constantly quick and vertical, give him the ball in those midfield/attacking positions, and you'll see him dominate the game while his general lack of effort in slow buildup doesn't become an issue. In that scenario he'll be running with the ball at defenses a majority of the time, no room for him to go all Walka Walka.

I truly wonder how much of a powerhouse Argentina would be if Sampaoli were coach instead of Sabella. His system would be so brutally effective on counterattacks that Argentina's midfield/defense issues are muted and the 4 attackers just wreak havoc all day against any tier of opposition. He'd get the most out of industrial ball winners like Gago and Masch while making transition runners like Messi and Di Maria into as deadly weapons as they could possibly be. Messi himself would be way too engaged to shut off and walk around.

An impeccable post.

To be fair, my worries about Messi are about next season, not about his game at this World Cup, since I don't care if Argentina wins it, plays the final or gets out in the quarters or even earlier. Messi, statistically, has run off the ball exactly 3.9 km. so far at this World Cup, with 0.5 km. more than Claudio Bravo or Joe Hart. That's so low it's ridiculous. Some other numbers, Cavani - 7,7, Muller - 7,6, Goetze - 7,4, Alexis - 7,3, Rooney - 7,2, and Robben - 7,2.

 

[FCBarca]

 

[Antimadridista1]

Video of his goal?

 

[Lomar1o]

it's hilarious how no one is taking into account his vomiting issues. do you guys really think that it's a plain issue? i really think that messi's health is fucked up and that's why he is trying to preserve himself, because if he ran more i'm sure it would cause vomiting to be more frequent and severe which would make him unable to even finish a single god damn match! i wouldn't be surprised if messi announces retirement after this WC announcing that he has a cancer or some other incurable illness which will prevent him from playing football. leave this man alone, he wants WC more than aguero or any other player in his team and he'd prolly run his ass off if he could. but he clearly doesn't, because if he did it would prolly do harm to him and his game. what's pathetic is argentina's attack, i think aguero should be dropped, he is clearly useless and is disrupting the game for albiceleste. but let's be honest, messi will be the only one to get bashed if argentina fail, even if messi plays as a gk he will be bashed for not scoring and not providing a win. no one will even mention that he is playing behind the strikers because there's no one else in the team to create chances from the midfield as frequently as a decent midfield would create. i feel pity for messi, we don't deserve to witness a footballer like that. i'm out!

 

[serghei]