10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Behrox]

Is that a joke?

No top team play 3-5-2 for a reason and playing a winger like Pedro at RWB or a left footed Rafinha is insane!

first of all its a 3-4-3. Secondly its not like our RBs are contributing anything to our play therefore someone like Rafinha or Pedro who like to play RM/RW can do better and Alba plays like a LW/LM too. 3 at the back offers us more defensive security than we currently get. And someone like Rakitic and Xavi/Iniesta in the middle helping control the tempo. Its a good formation at least on paper

 

[linetty]

They weren't sitters.

Remove Messi from this game, and we'd look twice as bad than we did. It really annoys me that Messi has to take so much BS for Luchos inadequate system. Always the scapegoat when things go bad. Ridiculous.

Oh they weren't? No goalkeeper in the first header and at the end of the game basically 1v1 against the keeper. The second header was quite harder though.

On top of that he lost the ball with only 3 players behind him.

I know the tactics are shit and he doesn't get service at all but missing a tap in and a 1v1 that should be an easy finish for Leo is not due to tactics.

 

[JamDav1982]

Messi missing chances isnt an issue, he is a brilliant finisher and that wont change.

 

[linetty]

Messi missing chances isnt an issue, he is a brilliant finisher and that wont change.

It already changed. He misses the easiest of finishes and even penalties (2 in a row recently).

He looks like Torres in comparision with Ronaldo at the moment.

 

[JamDav1982]

It already changed. He misses the easiest of finishes and even penalties (2 in a row recently).

He looks like Torres in comparision with Ronaldo at the moment.

Ronaldo has a different job to Messi and has to think about nothing or no one but him scoring goals.

Wait and see if Messi has become a poor finisher or not.

 

[Sumlit]

It already changed. He misses the easiest of finishes and even penalties (2 in a row recently).

He looks like Torres in comparision with Ronaldo at the moment.

You're really going off the rails with the hyperbole here.

Both the headers were too high for him, he could bring neither down. The play at the end of the game was a good save by the keeper.

None were sitters.

 

[blaugrana1987]

It already changed. He misses the easiest of finishes and even penalties (2 in a row recently).

He looks like Torres in comparision with Ronaldo at the moment.

Like Torres? Why doesnt some ban this fool? Ronaldo is scoring goals left and roght because his team is playing amazing football. Constanty opening up spaces and making goals easy to score. Most of them have been inside 10m in box with little to no markers. Much harder to score when you have 2-3 specifically dedicated for you..

 

[footyfan]

You're really going off the rails with the hyperbole here.

Both the headers were too high for him, he could bring neither down. The play at the end of the game was a good save by the keeper.

None were sitters.

The first one was 100% a sitter. He was completely unmarked with a wide open goal and he mistimed the header. Pretty inexcusable for a player like Messi. The other two were also easy chances. And the one where he chipped the keeper but was called offside, he would've scored that 10/10 in the past. Add to that, his finishing woes in other games this season and the fact that his conversion rate dropped dramatically last season (it's half of his regular rate), there's quite a bit of evidence that his finishing skills have been on a downward trend.

 

[Sumlit]

The first one was 100% a sitter. He was completely unmarked with a wide open goal and he mistimed the header. Pretty inexcusable for a player like Messi. The other two were also easy chances. And the one where he chipped the keeper but was called offside, he would've scored that 10/10 in the past. Add to that, his finishing woes in other games this season and the fact that his conversion rate dropped dramatically last season (it's half of his regular rate), there's quite a bit of evidence that his finishing skills have been on a downward trend.

The first one was too high for him. He couldn't get over the ball to head it down. If it had been on the ground, then that would have been a sitter, but he leaped up and still could not get his head over the ball. His height betrayed him there, if he was a bit taller that would have been an goal.

The other header again was high for him, and he still had to loop it over the keeper. The chance at the end was a good save. The chipped chances he was offside, but the ball also bounced really high off the grass and the keeper reacted quick to shorten the space so Messi had to rush it.

I won't argue he is not as sharp as he used to be with his finishing, because this is true, but many here bemoaning his finishing are really overdoing it. He has been very unlucky lately.

 

[linetty]

So Messi hasn't had 100% situations today?

Ridiculous. Tactics don't make things easier for him but that excuse is getting boring.

 

[DonAK]

His finishing has been bad. Can't deny that. Don't know what it is. Because of the record(mentally?), because of him having to work a lot more without any midfield and player to connect with thus losing composure in such situations, bad luck, whatever it is, it's just strange.

 

[footyfan]

The first one was too high for him. He couldn't get over the ball to head it down. If it had been on the ground, then that would have been a sitter, but he leaped up and still could not get his head over the ball. His height betrayed him there, if he was a bit taller that would have been an goal.

The other header again was high for him, and he still had to loop it over the keeper. The chance at the end was a good save. The chipped chances he was offside, but the ball also bounced really high off the grass and the keeper reacted quick to shorten the space so Messi had to rush it.

I won't argue he is not as sharp as he used to be with his finishing, because this is true, but many here bemoaning his finishing are really overdoing it. He has been very unlucky lately.

I really don't think it's bad luck though, that's the thing. He's making the wrong decision or being too hesitant/taking too many touches/rushing it. Especially the first header, he should've waited for the ball to drop a bit because he was completely unmarked and had time (the cross was not going to flow over his head - it was a looping ball) but he mistimed it. The other day vs Celta, where the player cleared his shot on to the bar, he took extra touches to get his shot away while in the past he would've pulled the trigger earlier. These little things are the margin between a goal and no-goal.

Finishing wise, Ronaldo has been better than him for a fair bit now. But even he has his bad days like vs Liverpool on Tuesday, but they are few and far between.

 

[blaugrana1987]

So Messi hasn't had 100% situations today?

Ridiculous. Tactics don't make things easier for him but that excuse is getting boring.

He had, and his finishing is worse but you are straight up idiot if you he looks like Torres in comparison to Ronaldo. Their conversion rate is still neck and neck, even though Ronaldos chances are MUCH better. That team is scoring and creating chances for fun.

His finishing has been bad. Can't deny that. Don't know what it is. Because of the record(mentally?), because of him having to work a lot more without any midfield and player to connect with thus losing composure in such situations, bad luck, whatever it is, it's just strange.

He is not as sharp because of couple reasons : tactically we are playing bad, really bad. We are not creating easy and open chances so there is bigger burden to score every chance you get. He is not as sharp as he was. That is, he is not in "beast mode". When you are concentrated, when you press and bite (like against Ajax) goals come. And when goals like that come few times in a row you have much more self confidence, which he currently lacks.

Ronaldo is a player that is playing as striker in team that has 3-4 WORLD CLASS playmakers. They are really playing some beautiful football. Scoring 5 a game and creating 20+ chances will result in your best player being in fantastic form.

Struggling beating Almeira and loosing against Celta at home WILL result in your goal tally being worse, and your finishing being of. Psychologically the most.

 

[Sumlit]

I really don't think it's bad luck though, that's the thing. He's making the wrong decision or being too hesitant/taking too many touches/rushing it. Especially the first header, he should've waited for the ball to drop a bit because he was completely unmarked and had time (the cross was not going to flow over his head - it was a looping ball) but he mistimed it. The other day vs Celta, where the player cleared his shot on to the bar, he took extra touches to get his shot away while in the past he would've pulled the trigger earlier. These little things are the margin between a goal and no-goal.

Finishing wise, Ronaldo has been better than him for a fair bit now. But even he has his bad days like vs Liverpool on Tuesday, but they are few and far between.

While I agree with him being hesitant/rushing/taking too long etc in general, that first header was slicing away from him. Pedro hit it with the outside of the foot and the ball was slicing away from the goal. If he waited for it to drop, it would have taken him away from the goal and likely given enough time for defenders to recover. It was just poor luck and lacking an inch here or there.

Though I do agree with your premise that he is not being decisive/or rushing it, in general.

I do still think this is also a run of poor luck by all 3 forwards. Even todays goals were some awkward finishes by Neymar and Alba.

The saying "when it rains, it pours" is very apropos for this team right now. Everyone is really wound up and uncomfortable out there. There's a lot of pressing and awkwardness going on.

 

[footyfan]

Scoring 5 a game and creating 20+ chances will result in your best player being in fantastic form.

Struggling beating Almeira and loosing against Celta at home WILL result in your goal tally being worse, and your finishing being of. Psychologically the most.

This I agree with. Messi is bound to lose his sharpness if he doesn't attack the box like he used to earlier or if the team doesn't provide him chances. Basically the more chances you have the better your finishing will be.