10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[Icarium]

Messi's dribbling is not only pace..

I see lot of pace and variation of pace in both of those dribbles, iniesta does it much more slower imo. But there is no such thing is the slower dribbling is better, and messi can dribble around people much more so his dribbling ability is better but i think he depends too much on pace and acceleration rather than touch and control. Maybe he can do it with touch and control that good as well but he prefers dribbling with pace and acceleration because it is more effective for him.

 

[Vlom]

[gfy]WanImpishFunnelweaverspider[/gfy]

Can't find it in bigger size, but this is like dribbling out of a prison cell, no pace to get out of it, just dribbling and ball control, then pace to run away.

You prefer Iniesta, ok we get it, but you can argue for days and it still won't make it true, Iniesta <<< Messi in dribbling.

 

[lessthanjake]

Yeah, it's hard to really say anything with certainty about someone's first touch. One can always point to examples of great first touches, but then you also see these guys take bad touches. I will say that I actually don't think Messi's first touch is historically great. I've seen his touch fail him a little too often for me to put him alongside the best players ever at this particular attribute. But, of course, I've also seen him take those magic first touches where the touch itself basically beats his defender. So I kind of see Messi's first touch as a high-risk, high-reward type of thing. Others are better at consistently making the ball stop on a dime every time. But I think there's very few people who are as good at purposely directing the ball in a certain direction so as to totally beat his man.

 

[Icarium]

That ball control

Anyway as i said he can definitely do it, but most of the time he uses pace and acceleration combined with good ball control.. the second one especially is his biggest strength and the first and third traits are definitely one of the best.

 

[Icarium]

If messi scores just as many goals as iniesta i know who i would prefer... (don't compare current iniesta to current messi though.. don is not playing at his best) but that is what makes messi special. he does all that and still score ton of goals.

 

[Lomar1o]

pace? i think in messi's dribbling timing and touch is more important than pace and explosiveness. predictability and responsiveness is also a huge factor in messi's dribbling, but pace and explosiveness is prolly more important than the two.

 

[Vlom]

If messi scores just as many goals as iniesta i know who i would prefer... (don't compare current iniesta to current messi though.. don is not playing at his best) but that is what makes messi special. he does all that and still score ton of goals.

Would prefer is a different thing to affirming that he is better, many people prefer Ronaldo while aknowledging that Messi is better, so if we're only speaking about taste there's no debate.

And of course I was speaking about prime Iniesta Vs Messi, in dribbling only, current Iniesta probably has less dribbles/90min to his name than Rafinha this season

 

[Bran the Greenseer]

Numbers wise prime iniesta can dribble past just as many people as prime messi. Its more a question of styles imo. Their styles each suit their roles perfectly. Iniesta's dribbling is perfect for being a cm while Messi's is perfect for being a forward/am. Messi can leave players for dead with his acceleration but Iniesta can stroll past them and they can't do anything about it. Its kind of a waste of time to compare their dribbling skills imo, since people dribble to get past players and in each of their primes they'd get past the same players so its more conjecture than anything to try to pick a clear winner.

 

[raskolnikov]

I prefer Iniesta's dribbling as well since its indeed so elegant. Iniesta has no physical attribbutes to help him out, he is a weak, short, slow man yet in his prime was insanely difficult to get off the ball since his control was perfect, maybe even better than Messi for me. Messi at times can lose the ball when pressured leading to counters where as Iniesta being attacked by 3 guys leads to nothing cause het gets out of it somehow.
Watching him switch geares when dribbling like he did vs PSG but so often in his prime is beautiful to watch.
In 2012 he was often our best player on the pitch even if Messi was scoring every game, you can check the motm threads from back then if they still are somewhere on this site.
Thats why it was so hard to watch the Bayern game, never saw Iniesta getting bullied and owned like that, Javi Martinez controlled him that night.

So while Iniesta and Messi ahve different styles, and Messi attemps more to create while Iniesta does it to get out of tight spaces I think whats most comparable is their ball control when dribbling. Iniesta probably has been the one with arguably the same or better ball control, be it at a slower pace.

Imagine if we still had prime Xavi/Iniesta behind MSN now, we would rule for years.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Messi at times can lose the ball when pressured leading to counters where as Iniesta being attacked by 3 guys leads to nothing cause het gets out of it somehow.

Now, let's not oversensitize iniesta's ability. Don't you remember last year's bale goal in cdr final?
Iniesta does have a unique style, he seems like he's floating around, that doesn't mean he's better than messi though, also messi's close control is unparalleled, never seen that before from anyone else.

 

[raskolnikov]

Now, let's not oversensitize iniesta's ability. Don't you remember last year's bale goal in cdr final?
Iniesta does have a unique style, he seems like he's floating around, that doesn't mean he's better than messi though, also messi's close control is unparalleled, never seen that before from anyone else.

When pressured by 3 guys I Always felt safer with Iniesta than Messi, not a knock on him of course since he is probably the only one who can do it better.

Take a look:

Whole vid is filled with examples, but look at 4.59 and 5.32 thats prime Iniesta right there bossing it when pressured.

Messi when pressured can make mistakes like Chelsea 2012.
Floating around is a nice way to discribe Iniesta I guess I just consider his ball control better at defensive dribbling while Messi's is better at attacking.

Its very rare for players to be on that level though, who else has control like that? Thats also why Cesc struggled, he couldnt escape like Iniesta or get by, nor did he have the vision of Xavi or the mental agility of Messi.

 

[Asylum15]

Yeah, it's hard to really say anything with certainty about someone's first touch. One can always point to examples of great first touches, but then you also see these guys take bad touches. I will say that I actually don't think Messi's first touch is historically great. I've seen his touch fail him a little too often for me to put him alongside the best players ever at this particular attribute. But, of course, I've also seen him take those magic first touches where the touch itself basically beats his defender. So I kind of see Messi's first touch as a high-risk, high-reward type of thing. Others are better at consistently making the ball stop on a dime every time. But I think there's very few people who are as good at purposely directing the ball in a certain direction so as to totally beat his man.

Completely disagree, if there is any attribute he's ''less than great at'' it isin't his first touch. 95% of the time when I watch the type of pass he receives, I constantly think, ''wow, that is incredible.'' This is most applicable when he's on the wing with a defender or two near him, and Alves smashes a pass to his feet, and he either kills it immediately and is on the move, or first time passes it back and moves into space for the trademark 1-2 with Alves.

Leo's first touch is majestic.

 

[Vlom]

Talking about prime Iniesta and watching that video makes me sad lol

I hope he dedicates a MotM performances tomorrow to his new baby!

Hahahaha [MENTION=8123]lessthanjake[/MENTION] trying hard again!

 

[raskolnikov]

Completely disagree, if there is any attribute he's ''less than great at'' it isin't his first touch. 95% of the time when I watch the type of pass he receives, I constantly think, ''wow, that is incredible.'' This is most applicable when he's on the wing with a defender or two near him, and Alves smashes a pass to his feet, and he either kills it immediately and is on the move, or first time passes it back and moves into space for the trademark 1-2 with Alves.

Leo's first touch is majestic.

Messi is like ATG level at almost all aspects. Dribbling, Ball control, passing, combinations, vision, timing, positioning, finishing, long distance passing, pace, balance. While others are bad, average or good at it while being very good at 1/2 aspects Messi is the best in the world at most and among the best with the other ones.
Only things he is mediocre at are long distance shooting and headers due to his lack of power and height and penalties and freekicks.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Messi is like ATG level at almost all aspects. Dribbling, Ball control, passing, combinations, vision, timing, positioning, finishing, long distance passing, pace, balance. While others are bad, average or good at it while being very good at 1/2 aspects Messi is the best in the world at most and among the best with the other ones.
Only things he is mediocre at are long distance shooting and headers due to his lack of power and height and penalties and freekicks.

Actually he has scored quite a few long distance screamers, it's just that due to his style he rarely shoots from afar, he doesn't want to.