10 - Lionel Messi - V6

KingLeo10

Senior Member
My opinion is for the last 5-6 years that Messi is easier to neutralize on a highest level due to his physical skills.
He can shoot only with feet.
He can't shoot with head.
And lately he is not that fast anymore.

So, it is way harder for him to get into goalscoring chances compared to CR7.

Messi is a better footballer when you sum ALL footballing skills, but there is one paradox, and this is it:
I tried to think now how would ALL big teams play with Messi or CR7 in their team.

Barca:
-- our style is built around Messi, so he fits better here, even though we are still not good enough for a CL anymore

Real:
-- imo, they are ALREADY playing well, and they DON'T need Messi's playmaking skills that much
They will profit more with CR7 in a team than with A CURRENT Messi.
Messi will improve their already good playmaking game and he won't be scoring AS MUCH as CR7 on a CL level since again, Messi will be easy to neutralize by big teams.
While CR7, he is a better fit for teams who are already GOOD in playmaking, and who need a KILLER finisher upfront to finish their chances.
So, for Real, CR7 will bring more in CL matches than Messi.

Juve:
Imo, the same thing.
If you put Messi in their team, they will suck. Messi won't bring pace, and won't bring header goals. He will bring some playmaking, but he will be neutralized again by big teams.
But, if you put CR7 in Juve, that is another story: they have a good defense, they have a decent midfield, and they will produce lots of crosses and passes for CR7, who can bring them goals in KO matches.
So, again, Juve with CR7 would be a better in CL KO matches than Juve with Messi.
Juve with Messi would be the same shitshow as Barca, isn't it?

Let's go further:
Bayern, the same story:
If you put Messi, he will play shortpasses and bring some playmaking, even though Bayern has enough of playmaking already.
In a CL, Messi probably won't improve current Bayern THAT much.
On the other hand, if you put CR7 in Bayern, who is already good in playmaking, CR7 will get tons of crosses and easy shots and he could bring them 0:2 victories against anyone.

Liverpool:
Probably none of these two is a good fit.

And then, ONLY Man City is a type of a team for Messi:
They are playing the same as Barca, and imo, that is the only big team where Messi's skills would bring more to their team than CR7's skills.

About NT teams, imo, it is quite the same:
France:
Messi couldn't play there.
Neither could CR7, but he would be closer to their style, I guess.

Croatia:
I guess that CR7 would bring more to Croatia than Messi.
Croatia already has a nice playmaking game with Modric and Rakitic and they need a CF upfront to kill off the matches.
Messi in Croatia, well, I think that he would suck again.

England:
The same:
Imagine Messi in England. He would suck again.
They play a weird football, he is not fit to their style at all.
CR7, a different story, AGAIN, his skills (scoring, headers) could be good enough for English style of play.

Italy or Germany, again, CR7 could bring more than Messi, imo.

The only big team where Messi could shine is imo Belgium.
They are somewhat similar to City.

So, my point is: people are talking all the time:
Argentina sucks, Messi is not guilty.
Barca sucks, Messi is not guilty.
We play slow, Messi is not guilty.

Imo, it seems that the only way for Messi to shine is to have some sort of Pep's team.
That is the only type of a team where Messi can make a difference.

While for majority of other, very good teams, in big matches, CR7 is a better pick since he is able to score more goals in BIG MATCHES due to being faster, and being able to score headers.

On the other hand, another paradox is:
If you play La liga, then Messi is obviously a better pick.
Against weaker teams, he is offering more: both playmaking, assists and goals.
While CR7 offers only goals.

So, imo:
If you want La ligas: buy Messi.
If you want a CL: buy CR7...

So, imo, after watching Messi's failures for years, I think that it is not a coincidence anymore.
He was always short.
But now, he is also slower than before.

He can't dribble past 5-6 players anymore.
He can't score a header.
And against big boys, he is EASIER to neutralize in terms of scoring.

Cr7 is better in off the ball movement and positioning to score.
He can score with feet and head.
Not to mention his better mental strength where he is able to score a header in the 94th minute for 1:1, while Messi will sulk already after 30 minutes if we are 0:1 down.

All in all, I still think that Messi is overall a better footballer.
But for majority of big teams, CR7 would bring more in THIS moment, due to his physical skills and better off the ball movement, positioning and ability to score BOTH with feet and head.

I personally won't be surprised if Juve will win a CL.
Cr7 is that type of a player.
On the other hand, Messi in Juve=that wouldn't work.

What is worse, I think that even Argentina would play better with CR7 than Messi.
They wouldn't have Messipendencia.
They could play faster and hurl 100 crosses in the box where CR7 would score 2-3 in majority of matches.

I know that this post will be quite offensive for our fans.
But when you remove emotions, think about it: do you think that Messi could lead a current Real, Juve, Bayern, Liverpool to a CL glory?
Then, put CR7 in those teams, and ask yourself the same question.

I personally see a bunch of 0:1 and 0:2 wins with penaldos and headers in the last 10 minutes.
Just like with Real and Portugal in big KO matches...

no one could neutralize Messi in 2015 (He had 58 goals, 30 assists, and 10 CL goals in the treble season).

Nor could messi be neutralized in several big games since then (3-2 win at bernabeu against the 2017 Real that was destroying Bayern, Juve, Atletico; 3-0 v Chelsea, 3-0 v Real at Bernabeu 2018; Winner against atletico in league in 2016; 3-0 vs Juve; Spurs away recently). It's true he has lost some physical ability and some drive, but the team around him has progressively declined except for 2015 and this season. That's why when he has disappearances like v Juve, atletico, or roma in the QF (3 terrible big ties out of the many that I've mentioned where he was exceptional ),people harp all over it and use that to indicate that this is the norm.

The one thing we can agree on is that CR7 has more ways to score because of his physical attributes and he's learned to maximize those advantages with some great team mates at RM. There was a time from 07-12 where that same CR7 did fuck all in the CL against top teams (didn't score v us in 08 Semis, 09 final, or 11 semis).
 

soul24rage

Senior Member

For me, for us to have any chance to win the CL, we have to start resting Messi and any other important players before any CL knockout stage. The past three years we have played without any intensity or any fight. Resting players will lead us to -> more running + increased intensity + less fatigued mentally -> better off the ball movement and more fight. We've seen how a rested Messi produced his best CL performances recently such as Chelsea at home 17/18 or Spurs away 18/19.

Zidane kept resting CR7 for the 16/17 and 17/18 knockout stages and it helped. Lucho and EV fails to realize that and I don't have confidence that EV will have the balls to rest them as all the veterans would want to play all the games. I'm not saying that just resting players will lead us to CL victory as we have to consider tactics, luck, suspension, ref mistakes and etc., but for me this has been the major problem that we had recently.

Edit: Also to those who were wondering
[tw]1070384048542007296[/tw]
 
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Mitchell1978

Senior Member
My opinion is for the last 5-6 years that Messi is easier to neutralize on a highest level due to his physical skills.
He can shoot only with feet.
He can't shoot with head.
And lately he is not that fast anymore.

So, it is way harder for him to get into goalscoring chances compared to CR7.

Messi is a better footballer when you sum ALL footballing skills, but there is one paradox, and this is it:
I tried to think now how would ALL big teams play with Messi or CR7 in their team.

Barca:
-- our style is built around Messi, so he fits better here, even though we are still not good enough for a CL anymore

Real:
-- imo, they are ALREADY playing well, and they DON'T need Messi's playmaking skills that much
They will profit more with CR7 in a team than with A CURRENT Messi.
Messi will improve their already good playmaking game and he won't be scoring AS MUCH as CR7 on a CL level since again, Messi will be easy to neutralize by big teams.
While CR7, he is a better fit for teams who are already GOOD in playmaking, and who need a KILLER finisher upfront to finish their chances.
So, for Real, CR7 will bring more in CL matches than Messi.

Juve:
Imo, the same thing.
If you put Messi in their team, they will suck. Messi won't bring pace, and won't bring header goals. He will bring some playmaking, but he will be neutralized again by big teams.
But, if you put CR7 in Juve, that is another story: they have a good defense, they have a decent midfield, and they will produce lots of crosses and passes for CR7, who can bring them goals in KO matches.
So, again, Juve with CR7 would be a better in CL KO matches than Juve with Messi.
Juve with Messi would be the same shitshow as Barca, isn't it?

Let's go further:
Bayern, the same story:
If you put Messi, he will play shortpasses and bring some playmaking, even though Bayern has enough of playmaking already.
In a CL, Messi probably won't improve current Bayern THAT much.
On the other hand, if you put CR7 in Bayern, who is already good in playmaking, CR7 will get tons of crosses and easy shots and he could bring them 0:2 victories against anyone.

Liverpool:
Probably none of these two is a good fit.

And then, ONLY Man City is a type of a team for Messi:
They are playing the same as Barca, and imo, that is the only big team where Messi's skills would bring more to their team than CR7's skills.

About NT teams, imo, it is quite the same:
France:
Messi couldn't play there.
Neither could CR7, but he would be closer to their style, I guess.

Croatia:
I guess that CR7 would bring more to Croatia than Messi.
Croatia already has a nice playmaking game with Modric and Rakitic and they need a CF upfront to kill off the matches.
Messi in Croatia, well, I think that he would suck again.

England:
The same:
Imagine Messi in England. He would suck again.
They play a weird football, he is not fit to their style at all.
CR7, a different story, AGAIN, his skills (scoring, headers) could be good enough for English style of play.

Italy or Germany, again, CR7 could bring more than Messi, imo.

The only big team where Messi could shine is imo Belgium.
They are somewhat similar to City.

So, my point is: people are talking all the time:
Argentina sucks, Messi is not guilty.
Barca sucks, Messi is not guilty.
We play slow, Messi is not guilty.

Imo, it seems that the only way for Messi to shine is to have some sort of Pep's team.
That is the only type of a team where Messi can make a difference.

While for majority of other, very good teams, in big matches, CR7 is a better pick since he is able to score more goals in BIG MATCHES due to being faster, and being able to score headers.

On the other hand, another paradox is:
If you play La liga, then Messi is obviously a better pick.
Against weaker teams, he is offering more: both playmaking, assists and goals.
While CR7 offers only goals.

So, imo:
If you want La ligas: buy Messi.
If you want a CL: buy CR7...

So, imo, after watching Messi's failures for years, I think that it is not a coincidence anymore.
He was always short.
But now, he is also slower than before.

He can't dribble past 5-6 players anymore.
He can't score a header.
And against big boys, he is EASIER to neutralize in terms of scoring.

Cr7 is better in off the ball movement and positioning to score.
He can score with feet and head.
Not to mention his better mental strength where he is able to score a header in the 94th minute for 1:1, while Messi will sulk already after 30 minutes if we are 0:1 down.

All in all, I still think that Messi is overall a better footballer.
But for majority of big teams, CR7 would bring more in THIS moment, due to his physical skills and better off the ball movement, positioning and ability to score BOTH with feet and head.

I personally won't be surprised if Juve will win a CL.
Cr7 is that type of a player.
On the other hand, Messi in Juve=that wouldn't work.

What is worse, I think that even Argentina would play better with CR7 than Messi.
They wouldn't have Messipendencia.
They could play faster and hurl 100 crosses in the box where CR7 would score 2-3 in majority of matches.

I know that this post will be quite offensive for our fans.
But when you remove emotions, think about it: do you think that Messi could lead a current Real, Juve, Bayern, Liverpool to a CL glory?
Then, put CR7 in those teams, and ask yourself the same question.

I personally see a bunch of 0:1 and 0:2 wins with penaldos and headers in the last 10 minutes.
Just like with Real and Portugal in big KO matches...


I've said it many times before, why don't you go follow Real or follow your boyfriend to Juve in stead of posting your daily retarded drivel and polluting this forum.
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
I've said it many times before, why don't you go follow Real or follow your boyfriend to Juve in stead of posting your daily retarded drivel and polluting this forum.

funny part of this is...

In H2H meetings in CL, Messi has 3 goals to CR7's 0. And thoroughly upstaged him both in a final and in a semi final. :lol:

But hey folks, if you want a CL, you want CR7. Because winning CLs is that simple.
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
CL obsession is blinding some people here about the great things Messi and Barca have done the last few years.

Its clear those people started following barca when they had loads of success in the CL and now that it has dried up somewhat want to trash everything about the club.
 

Pedro

La Masia
DtroPIlUcAAp1SV.jpg
 

biraboyz

Banned
[tw]1070269942057103361[/tw]

Diario AS editor Alfredo Relaño is entrusted with casting the Spanish media's ballot in the voting for the Ballon d'Or. This year, his chosen five were:

Six points: Antoine Griezmann (Atlético Madrid/France)
Four points: Kylian Mbappé (Paris Saint-Germain/France)
Three points: Luka Modric (Real Madrid/Croatia)
Two points: Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid/Juventus/Portugal)
One point: Lionel Messi (Barcelona/Argentina)

[........]

On why he voted Messi at 5th place

This was a World Cup year, and in such years we also have a duty to look particularly closely at what happened at the tournament when it came to the crunch. I was talking to [Fabio] Capello about it, and he said: 'The World Cup is the pinnacle - the best against the best, in an environment in which the pressure couldn't be greater. A player who is a stand-out performer at a World Cup is a player who truly has something special.'

And the fact is, the World Cup is something that damages Messi's case, because he doesn't play as well for Argentina, save for the odd particularly good game. If he played [for Barcelona] like he does for his country, we wouldn't consider him an all-time great; we'd see him as just one of the very good players on the scene at that particular moment in time.

I'm curious about the voting in 2014, if he still have the same reason
 

BusiTheKing

Senior Member
My opinion is for the last 5-6 years that Messi is easier to neutralize on a highest level due to his physical skills.
He can shoot only with feet.
He can't shoot with head.
And lately he is not that fast anymore.

So, it is way harder for him to get into goalscoring chances compared to CR7.

Messi is a better footballer when you sum ALL footballing skills, but there is one paradox, and this is it:
I tried to think now how would ALL big teams play with Messi or CR7 in their team.

Barca:
-- our style is built around Messi, so he fits better here, even though we are still not good enough for a CL anymore

Real:
-- imo, they are ALREADY playing well, and they DON'T need Messi's playmaking skills that much
They will profit more with CR7 in a team than with A CURRENT Messi.
Messi will improve their already good playmaking game and he won't be scoring AS MUCH as CR7 on a CL level since again, Messi will be easy to neutralize by big teams.
While CR7, he is a better fit for teams who are already GOOD in playmaking, and who need a KILLER finisher upfront to finish their chances.
So, for Real, CR7 will bring more in CL matches than Messi.

Juve:
Imo, the same thing.
If you put Messi in their team, they will suck. Messi won't bring pace, and won't bring header goals. He will bring some playmaking, but he will be neutralized again by big teams.
But, if you put CR7 in Juve, that is another story: they have a good defense, they have a decent midfield, and they will produce lots of crosses and passes for CR7, who can bring them goals in KO matches.
So, again, Juve with CR7 would be a better in CL KO matches than Juve with Messi.
Juve with Messi would be the same shitshow as Barca, isn't it?

Let's go further:
Bayern, the same story:
If you put Messi, he will play shortpasses and bring some playmaking, even though Bayern has enough of playmaking already.
In a CL, Messi probably won't improve current Bayern THAT much.
On the other hand, if you put CR7 in Bayern, who is already good in playmaking, CR7 will get tons of crosses and easy shots and he could bring them 0:2 victories against anyone.

Liverpool:
Probably none of these two is a good fit.

And then, ONLY Man City is a type of a team for Messi:
They are playing the same as Barca, and imo, that is the only big team where Messi's skills would bring more to their team than CR7's skills.

About NT teams, imo, it is quite the same:
France:
Messi couldn't play there.
Neither could CR7, but he would be closer to their style, I guess.

Croatia:
I guess that CR7 would bring more to Croatia than Messi.
Croatia already has a nice playmaking game with Modric and Rakitic and they need a CF upfront to kill off the matches.
Messi in Croatia, well, I think that he would suck again.

England:
The same:
Imagine Messi in England. He would suck again.
They play a weird football, he is not fit to their style at all.
CR7, a different story, AGAIN, his skills (scoring, headers) could be good enough for English style of play.

Italy or Germany, again, CR7 could bring more than Messi, imo.

The only big team where Messi could shine is imo Belgium.
They are somewhat similar to City.

So, my point is: people are talking all the time:
Argentina sucks, Messi is not guilty.
Barca sucks, Messi is not guilty.
We play slow, Messi is not guilty.

Imo, it seems that the only way for Messi to shine is to have some sort of Pep's team.
That is the only type of a team where Messi can make a difference.

While for majority of other, very good teams, in big matches, CR7 is a better pick since he is able to score more goals in BIG MATCHES due to being faster, and being able to score headers.

On the other hand, another paradox is:
If you play La liga, then Messi is obviously a better pick.
Against weaker teams, he is offering more: both playmaking, assists and goals.
While CR7 offers only goals.

So, imo:
If you want La ligas: buy Messi.
If you want a CL: buy CR7...

So, imo, after watching Messi's failures for years, I think that it is not a coincidence anymore.
He was always short.
But now, he is also slower than before.

He can't dribble past 5-6 players anymore.
He can't score a header.
And against big boys, he is EASIER to neutralize in terms of scoring.

Cr7 is better in off the ball movement and positioning to score.
He can score with feet and head.
Not to mention his better mental strength where he is able to score a header in the 94th minute for 1:1, while Messi will sulk already after 30 minutes if we are 0:1 down.

All in all, I still think that Messi is overall a better footballer.
But for majority of big teams, CR7 would bring more in THIS moment, due to his physical skills and better off the ball movement, positioning and ability to score BOTH with feet and head.

I personally won't be surprised if Juve will win a CL.
Cr7 is that type of a player.
On the other hand, Messi in Juve=that wouldn't work.

What is worse, I think that even Argentina would play better with CR7 than Messi.
They wouldn't have Messipendencia.
They could play faster and hurl 100 crosses in the box where CR7 would score 2-3 in majority of matches.

I know that this post will be quite offensive for our fans.
But when you remove emotions, think about it: do you think that Messi could lead a current Real, Juve, Bayern, Liverpool to a CL glory?
Then, put CR7 in those teams, and ask yourself the same question.

I personally see a bunch of 0:1 and 0:2 wins with penaldos and headers in the last 10 minutes.
Just like with Real and Portugal in big KO matches...

What a stupid fucking post BBZ. Did you seriously not see Ronaldo completely choke in both semi-finals and the final of last season's CL campaign? The difference is, that if Messi did that, we would be out in a second, whereas Real still beat a strong Bayern side over two games and neutralized Liverpool in the final.

If Ronaldo plays badly, what it generally means is that Juve miss some or many of their chances. If Messi plays badly, what it generally means is that our entire offense collapses.

And you're probably wondering why it's typically one of them who's affected by pressure.
 

Potroh

New member
My opinion is for the last 5-6 years that Messi is easier to neutralize on a highest level due to his physical skills.
He can shoot only with feet.
He can't shoot with head.
And lately he is not that fast anymore.

As a matter of fact I have been waiting for the moment you start picking on Messi.
According to your twisted logic, there are some "ingredients" to become a genius in football and alas, Messi doesn't have those.
He is JUST and SIMPLY a genius, who could do incredible things in MOST teams, no need to analyze further.

"Size matters" - at least according to your brain - so no wonder you always crave for TALL footballers. Well, Messi is definitely not one of them, but you actually stop thinking there.
(Loving strong and oversized sportsman always brings the possibility having an inferiority-complex in your psychological profile, but I don't want to enter into that possibility...).

All in all, if you were a general, leading your army in the medieval ages, you would definitely refuse the short and weaker privates with much better and more sophisticated skills - compared to the brute-force, thus you would lose each and every battle- and wouldn't ever understand the reasons for that...

You may try to compare Messi with CR7, as you did, but there's the easiest way to compare:

Messi is a rare genius, born once in a century, whereas CR7 is a Robot, that can be manufactured anytime...

Nevertheless, your own equation can be even more simply put:
You DISLIKE skillful players (just recently Neymar, Dembele, etc.) and PREFER physicality, that leads to victory...

Of course your favorites will be forgotten very soon, while the other few will be remembered for ages...
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
funny part of this is...

In H2H meetings in CL, Messi has 3 goals to CR7's 0. And thoroughly upstaged him both in a final and in a semi final. :lol:

But hey folks, if you want a CL, you want CR7. Because winning CLs is that simple.

Head 2 head meetings from matches from 10 years ago? Wow.

I was talking about a current Messi in the last 5-6 years who is not as fast anymore, who doesn't move off the ball and who is sulking.

Young Messi was fast, motivated and able to dribble past 3-4 opponents out of nowhere and score a one-man goal.

Again, I was talking about current Messi and Cr7.
Put Messi in a current Real.
They will get more playmaking, but they won't be able to break buses in a Cl.
Put Cr7 in Real and you get 4 Cls.
Juve, do you think that Messi-Dybala-Mandzukic would win a Cl?
I don't.
Cr7 in Juve? It might work.

Messi from 2007, 2009 and 2011 was a better player than Cr7.
But a current, 31 years old Messi is somewhat easy to neutralize by big teams due to his declined physique and dropping deep style of play.

Nevertheless, your own equation can be even more simply put:
You DISLIKE skillful players (just recently Neymar, Dembele, etc.) and PREFER physicality, that leads to victory...

True.
I am less about enjoying in beauty and more a guy who wants practical victories, brought this or that way.
I would like to see Barca playing beautiful and win, but I can survive with EV's displays as long as we are winning, that is true.

My opinion, as explained above is that a current Messi (31 years old, slower, sulking, not as motivated as before) can lead a team to CL glory only in a team like City and Belgium.
I don't believe that his set of skills could work in any other current big team.

In all other big teams, imo, he would have been neutralized equally as in a current Barca (in CL knockout matches like against Atletico, Roma, Juve, Psg lately), due to his playing style and physique.
 
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biraboyz

Banned
This is just not true, generally MVP goes to the best player of a team with the best or second best record in rs, it's not all about individual performance, Lebron is indisputably the best player in the league and he won literally zero MVP in the last 5 years. Team record has a huge influence just like trophies for the ballon d'or so at the end of the day criteria are basically the same.

Westbrook won it without a top team record, Kareem didn't even made it to the playoffs and still wins it. People keeps o saying that LeBron is still the best when other players stats are better while being at the top of the standings and in the Western. The difference NBA MVP is consistent on how they choose the winner, team standing and player stats and importance for the team. While Ballon D'or from stats to trophies to stats again then trophies again. It all depends on what narrative that will favor their agenda, PR marketing is the bigger factor
 

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