I agree with you, but still, imo, there is a huge difference between La liga and a CL.
We are laughing at Psg and their farmer's league, but we are falling into the same trap in the last 5-6 years.
How?
As explained:
1. things which work awesome in La liga, DON'T work in a CL
You said above:
1. that we don't have a system, which is true
2. some will say that our players don't run off the ball, which is true
3. some will say that our midfield (Rakitic) is bad, which is true
4. some will say that we rely too much on Messi, which is true
But, INSPITE of all that, we are winning leagues all the time.
So, you see, again, my point is: in La liga, we can win inspite of everything from above. And then a team, a coach, a board (and fans) have a feeling: we are so good, we can win a CL.
We won La liga last season with Rakitic-Paulinho-Gomes-Iniesta-Busi. Isn't that a comedy, tbh?
In La liga, every shity lineup of formation works as long as you have Messi.
We can play with 3 pivots, and win 2:0, since Messi will pull something.
And then, our team gets used to that idea: we won't do anything, or we are not forced to do anything. We will just play a slow, safe, possession style and Messi will eventually create 2-3 moments of magic and we'll win 2:0.
And then, we come to a CL, opponents know that Messi is the only danger, they surround him by 3 players, and we play zeros all time: Lyon 0:0, Roma 0:3, Juve 0:3, Psg 0:4, Atletico 0:2, Atletico 0:1.
It really CAN'T be a coincidence anymore.
Further, regarding Messi, he is imo too old to change his ways today.
He is used to be a key man of all his teams.
He doesn't want to play as a RW.
He likes to drop to a CM regardless of who plays (Rakitic or Arthur-Frenkie). Some guys are fooling themselves if they think that Messi will stop dropping deep once when we'll have Frenkie-Arthur.
Imo, we came to a point where having Messi is BOTH a magnificent gift and a burden in the same time.
In La liga, players will pass to him all the time, and he will win every match.
And then, he won't be able to do anything on his own in a CL, and yet, teammates won't be able to do anything SINCE they are used to pass the every ball to him, which is working perfectly in La liga.
So, we are not forced to try to play in a different way (different to Messipendencia) since it is working perfectly in La liga.
And then, in a CL, you know what will happen every year: we won't have an answer...
Also, once and for all, maybe while discussing, we should start to talk about 2 scenarios:
1. a team, a lineup, a formation, a system for La liga
2. and a system, lineup for a CL
I often talked about physique, mental strength, thugs and similar.
Well, obviously, you don't need 3 robots in midfield against Getafe.
We can win against Getafe both with Raki-Gomes-Paulinho and with Alena-Arthur-Busi.
So, against Getafe=every option is working, especially when you have Messi.
On the other hand, against Juve, Arthur-Alena and similar duo are quite a problem.
Further, in La liga, something like Dembele-Messi-Malcom is a decent option.
But then again, in La Liga, EVERY OPTION is a decent option, as long as you have Messi to save your asses against Getafe and Girona.
On the other hand, imagine Arthur-Alena, Dembele-Messi-Malcom against Juventus in Italy.
Do you seriously (not you Raketa, I am talking in general) that it would work? I don't.
Regarding Mandzukic, CR7, Benzema and similar.
In La liga, players like Aguero and mobile, technical forwards will score more goals, against weaker teams.
So, it is probably better to have Jovic than Mandzukic against Getafe.
On the other hand, if you play against Juve or Atletico, Jovic will be eaten alive in the middle, surrounded by 3 tall defenders, while a less technical Mandzukic will always find a way to score some header in the 88th minute.
Some will reply as always: BUT, we won that way under Pep.
Again, we had Messi, cheating codes, and 4 best players in their positions in Xavi, Iniesta, Busi, Alves.
Apart from Pep's era, iirc, no team has ever won with that "type" of players.
When I say that type, I mean at mostly at:
1. having BOTH light midfielders
2. and having attackers who can play only with feet on the ground
Real won 4 Cls with Benzema, CR7 and Bale who can score with feet and head in CL semis.
Which we (Barca) can't.
France won a World cup with Giroud in attack and with a team capable of scoring in lots of different way (feet, counters, after corners, headers after crosses).
We can't do any of that. We can score ONLY from actions on the ground, which are easily neutralized by the opponents in the last 5-6 years, NOT because of a bad system.
Germany in 2014, the same story.
So, in the past, I thought that Arthur-Alena will be crap even in La Liga, but I have changed my mind.
In La Liga, almost any option=is good enough.
Arthur-Alena, Dembele-Messi-Malcom=fine. EVERYTHING works in LA liga, especially when we have Messi.
But for a CL, we need a different approach.
I often refer to Rijkaard in 2006, when we won a first CL after 14 years of waiting.
In 2005, he lost to Chelsea with a one-dimensional team. Our midfielders were light players Deco, Xavi, Iniesta and Gerard.
Next year, he played with Edmilson, Motta as starter midfielders, and in attack he had Etoo and Larsson who can both score with feet and HEAD, plus a magician Ronaldinho.
So, imo, the only time in a history where a perfect one-dimensional attack worked was during Pep, because we were just too good.
When I say one-dimensional, I mean: we were scoring only through the ground. We didn't need corners, headers and similar.
But that works only when you have aliens like we had in that era.
When you have normal players, like today, you need MORE different way of attacking and scoring.
And yet, our only way of attacking is: take the ball, build an attack slowly, keep possession, pass around the box, pass to Messi and wait for something to happen
For the end:
1. I don't believe that we will improve in a CL even with Frenkie-Arthur, AS LONG as we will be able to score only through the ground, and through the middle
2. for a CL level, we will need LESS Messipendencia, but we will also need some counters, some crosses (and someone to be able to score a header here and there), some corners, some set pieces etc.
Just one goal, for example:
When a team plays this way in a CL:
Then, when a winger has the ball, defenders don't know what he will do:
1. a winger can dribble
2. a winger can run and play a backpass to the edge of a box, so other defenders need to cover the area around the edge of a box
3. but then, defenders need to both cover the edge of a box area and a winger (who can dribble and make a mess), but also, since defenders can't cover EVERYTHING, there is way more space on a far post for headers and easy tap ins
Mandzukic and CR7 scored 10s of similar goals in a CL key matches this way, isn't it?
The defense need to cover 2-3 different areas, and then there are holes on some places, usually for easy tap ins at a far post.
So, when Juve has the ball:
1. a winger/full back can dribble
2. a fullback can play a backpass to the edge of a box
3. a fullback can cross to the far post
Let's check how Barca is playing this action:
Semedo has the ball:
1. he will either stop and play a long backpass to Rakitic
2. or he will play a pass to the edge of a box to Messi
He won't try to dribble.
He won't cross to the far post.
So, when the opponent is marking CR7/Mandzukic, the opponents need to cover at least 3 different areas around the box.
While, when Barca is attacking, the opponents need to cover only ONE AREA=you need to man mark Messi with 3 defenders at the edge of a box, because he will ALWAYS stand there and wait for the ball and EVERY teammate will ALWAYS pass to him.
Again, it works well in La liga.
But it works horribly in a CL.
I still think that players like Jovic will be good picks for La liga, while for a CL, players like Mnadzukic are always a way better option against strong defenses where you need several attacking weapons to finally score a goal.
