10 - Lionel Messi - V6

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eaman

Active member
If one of Suarez coutinho or alba put away their chances that Messi created at anfield we probably wouldn't be even hearing from van gaal. We might even be hearing how he doesn't even need to score to be the best on the pitch and how that shows he is a team player
 
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serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Mitchell1978 said:
How can you say that based on the last CL campaign? Where he was by far the best player in the tournament?
You're either blind or incredibily biased.
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Because it isn't working. I'd prefer less individual brilliance from Messi, but more effort, involvement and tactical/positional coherence. I think it is fair to say that allowing Messi to do what he wants on the field has been proven to be a crap tactic.

It is no use for us if Messi is the best player in the tournament and we get humiliated. It means he is the best in the tournament at the expense of our collective. Which is basically what Van Gaal is saying.

Our job as a team is not to make Messi have the greatest highlights reel in a season. It is to win the whole thing, and us, with Messi on the field, have played 1 final in the last 8 years. And that was the season with peak MSN, mind you.

It is being proven with Argentina and with Barcelona in CL that the collective is everything. Making one player some sort of do-all magician on the ball, while absolving him of rules and duties otherwise, is, no doubt, a failing tactic past a certain point.

Of course, the Messi situation, and his current playing style, is not our no1 biggest issue, but it is an important one still.

eaman said:
If one of Suarez coutinho or alba put away their chances that Messi created at anfield we probably wouldn't be even hearing from van gaal. We might even be hearing how he doesn't even need to score to be the best on the pitch and how that shows he is a team player
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That's exactly the problem. Time and time again we use what Messi does great to somehow absolve him from what he does poorly.

Yes he is the best player in the world on the ball. Yes, he is one of the worst players off it, and probably the laziest and most irrelevant in defensive transition.

He is amazing at some things, very poor at others. You think workrate is not important? Liverpool made 2 finals and won this year's CL based mostly on workrate and intensity, basically things Messi is very poor at.

Barcelona are already known as the team who runs the fewest kms per game in CL. We've consistently been outran by all of our opponents last year. Guess who's the player who runs the least in our team?

We are an extremely unstable team that plays way too much based on talent. At some point, you need grit and intensity too. And we lack it.
 
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Mitchell1978

Senior Member
George_Costanza said:
More to it:

Louis Van Gaal:


“Look at Aguero. He played for himself until Guardiola changed him and now moves when he’s supposed to. That’s the art of coaching.”
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Aguera scored a lot of goals and won titles before Giardiola and he still does. Very little has changed.

Van Gaal also praised Milner as the ultimate team player or even the best team player lol

Van Gaal thinks and talks like a authoritarian coach (like he was), someone who prefers average players who are disciplined and do as they are told to superstar talents who aren't that easy to coach but who can win games on their own

He wouldn't last long coaching superstar players
 
Jadentheman

Jadentheman

Active member
bismp said:
For another year,he had a great season and he is the best player in the world,despite becoming 32 years old.He is the best player I’ve seen in my life by a huge margin and probably the GOAT.

That said,Leo has shown time and time again that he can’t perform in the biggest stage,especially in the last years:

-He was nowhere to be found in the eliminations against Atletico in the CL,both in 2014 and 2016.

-He won the best player award in WC 2014,but to be honest,his performance in the QF,in the SF and in the Final were mediocre.

-He lost two Copa America finals against Chile,in 2015 and 2016.

-In the club’s biggest remontada in history(6-1 vs PSG),he wasn’t anywhere near the top performers.

-His 2018 WC was overall disappointing to say the least.

-Barca was humiliated two consecutive years in the CL(the Roma and Liverpool fiasco),but he stood there,helpless.

-His 2019 Copa America is so far disappointing.


Unfortunately,I believe that he could have avoided half of these disappointments if he showed more passion and fighting spirit when things didn’t go his way.He quits too easily these days...

Of course,there have been many-MANY bright moments all those years,but it feels like he is not the same player he was in 2009-2013/2015.

Anyway,Happy Birthday to him :messi:
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That's an unpopular opinion around these parts. Be care or you'll get labeled a troll and they won't take you seriously like BBZ
 
bismp

bismp

Well-known member
Jadentheman said:
That's an unpopular opinion around these parts. Be care or you'll get labeled a troll and they won't take you seriously like BBZ
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I may not be really active,but I’ve been here since 2014.People know if I’m a troll or not.In any case,if someone disagrees with me,I’m happy to debate.
 
A

Arizona Scott

New member
Mitchell1978 said:
The amount of disrespect and ungratefulness in this thread towards him are mindblowing, even moreso after the season he just had.
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Totally agree. Messi is the chief reason why Barca has been the most successful club football team over the last 4 years 8 years, 12 years. Barca has been even more reliant on him as he is aging, exactly when we should be less reliant.

As if it is his fault we gave up 4 goals in one match to Liverpool, 3 goals to feaken Roma, 3 to a relatively offensively inept Juve side, and 4 goals to PSG. It is is Messi's fault our backline and midfield have gotten overrun in big road matches and the managers have been impotent.

And if anyone was seen how terribly Argentina plays without him you realize what at achievement it was to drag those blokes to 3 finals, and always get the squad to the world cup and through the group stages. They seriously would not qualify for the world cup without him.

I never would have imagine Barcafans sentiments about Messi in about 2 years since that Real supercup and where he has almost single handidly revered the fortunes compared to our arch nemesis. The perspective here about one man in a 11 man sheet and 20 some man squad can be downright pitiful.
 
EdmondDantes

EdmondDantes

New member
te amo barca said:
Absolutely agree with the points serghei is making. This has been evident for years now.
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He's right but for this year's Champions League, we did not get humiliated because of Messi's overwhelming individual influence in the team. That's where I disagree.


We lost, and frankly got, completely dominated by Liverpool at the Camp Nou and at Anfield because of that garbage midfield trio. Messi, if anything, was the one responsible for that misleading 3-0 lead we took to Liverpool and not the team or Valverde.


Rakitic is technically shit and hides, Vidal is technically shit but breaks a sweat in throwing himself around like a madman, tackling everything while being tactically anarchic, often deserting the midfield and staying way up the pitch alongside Suarez with his arms up, hoping to head a ball that's never going to be crossed in. That's not Barcelona football.

And Busquets, while technically great still, is simply not compatible with the former two, and it's visible he also has physically declined. We lost because Valverde is a small time coach, who does not even remotely adhere to our style and philosophy. He tried to coward his way to the final and the end result was beyond obvious.



Fabinho alone owned all 3 of them. And that's what I don't get, Fabinho is a player who is worthy of the label 'defensive monster' but who is also technically sound on the ball. If we're to have workhorses in the team, Fabinho type players, who are also good in possession, is what we should be aiming for, at the very least. And not past it, limited plodders like Rakitic and even Vidal. I see no point in having non-footballing footballers here - especially since we can perfectly have players capable of both, if we need a tactical switch.


--

Last but not least, happy birthday Leo.
 
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Kul_z

Kul_z

Senior Member
Put any player in the world at messi's place last season and we wouldn't see no la liga, no final copa del rey and no semi final cl. So van gaal, we saw your work in the last decade and its truly disgraceful, so shut the fuck up. I cant believe that heroics he made this last season would be forgotten in an instant, but so would rakitic, suarez, busquets, coutinho, roberto shitness also. Dude had almost dragged this shitshow of a team to the final of cl. With valverde in command. Like seriously, van gaal should find a club, if there's any that wants his 'philosophy' at the wheel.
 
FCB1987

FCB1987

Banned
Arizona Scott said:
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As if it is his fault we gave up 4 goals in one match to Liverpool, 3 goals to feaken Roma, 3 to a relatively offensively inept Juve side, and 4 goals to PSG. It is is Messi's fault our backline and midfield have gotten overrun in big road matches and the managers have been impotent. .
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As if those results have nothing do with the fact that Suarez and Messi don't press or offer any movement off the ball.
 
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