10 - Lionel Messi - V6

[FCB1987]

2007- Kaka
2008- Ronaldo
2009- Messi
2010- Xavi
2011- Messi
2012- Messi
2013- Ribery
2014- Ronaldo
2015- Messi
2016- Suarez
2017- Ronaldo
2018- Messi /Modric

I was talking about pure individual performance without taking trophies into account, Xavi and Ribery were definitely not better individually than Messi or Ronaldo in 2010/2013.

 

[Mitchell1978]

It's funny how people keep saying that ronaldo is a machine, has a body of a 18 year old teenager, scores anywhere and from everywhere, it's the superman, a god and bla bla bla bla. Looking at some stats I saw the opposite:

2017/2018 season:
Messi - 54 apps, 18 assists, 45 goals - goals + assists = 63
Ronaldo - 44 apps, 8 assists, 44 goals - goals + assists = 52

2018 only:
Messi - 34 apps, 14 assists, 30 goals - goals + assists = 44
Ronaldo - 29 apps, 6 assists, 34 goals - goals + assists = 40

I wanted more so I did a little research since 09/10 season (when Ronaldo started for Madrid) and I found this:

Since season 09/10, Messi played more games than Ronaldo in 7 seasons out of 9. Still people see Messi as an old papa while Ronaldo is a physical monster.
Since season 09/10, Messi scored more than Ronaldo in 5 seasons out of 9 and one of them they both finished with the same number of goals. Again, in the eyes of the Media, Ronaldo is a scoring machine that can score with head, both feet and it's more "complete" than Messi. Still he didn't score more than Messi most of the times.
To conclude, Messi beat Ronaldo in number of assists in 9 seasons out of 9. Ouch.

So, Messi plays more, scores more, assists more, but the Media and a lot of fans are convinced that Ronaldo is a beast, the complete player, the perfect attacker, the one to look when things are going bad.

See? You can make a bad thing turn into a good one simply by manipulating the media and the fans. All that bullshit about Ronaldo having 7% body fat and being stronger than everyone and bla bla bla, and still he's barely reaching 45 games/season. How can you be a superman if you rest more than any player in the world? Add to the fact that the "scoring machine" gives his all in 20/25 games per season (UCL games + La Liga important games) and it's enough for his agents and fans to build a story based on how incredible this man is and etc. Didn't score in semi finals and finals? No problem, remember the bicycle kick (it was amazing, indeed) again and again until you believe that his invisible games didn't happen.

Now looking at Messi, he's playing almost every single game because Barca can't do shit without him (lost the record in La Liga), he's scoring a lot, he's assisting a lot, he's producing almost one goal/assist each game. And I'm not even talking about build-up play and creating chances (Ronaldo contribute way less than Messi).

Yes, Messi should be doing more for Barca and Argentina. Yes, Messi needs to improve his work rate. And we can't deny that Messi is slowing down, but so as Ronaldo.

Please don't buy that shit talk about Ronaldo becoming better year after year and changing his body like an alien. He's resting more, playing less and saving himself for UCL games. That's how his staff can create the whole story. I'm 100% sure that if Messi rests in 10 games in La Liga, stop playing Cup games, and save himself only for UCL games, with a bit of luck the whole media and fans would change their point of view, just because today is not about how well you play and what you produce during the game but how well your personal staff can create a story about that game, for the newspapers and magazines to publish.

Sorry for the long post, really needed to express this thoughts.

Good post, Ronaldo scored 450 goals in 9 season for Real, exactly 50 goals a season which is hugely impressive but Messi scored 472 goals in that same timeframe....
Ronaldo added 119 assists Messi 179.
In La Liga the difference is over more pronounced.
So you're correct, Messi played more games, scored more goals, gave more assists also created more chances for his teammates, contributed more in the build up and had more dribbles no doubt.

 

[vlad]

Well its not secret that messi is absolute king in la liga


Also that CR7 outperformed messi in CL

 

[RMU ReBorn]

I was talking about pure individual performance without taking trophies into account, Xavi and Ribery were definitely not better individually than Messi or Ronaldo in 2010/2013.

I was also talking about pure individual performance . Xavi was the best player in world cup . Won 3 MoTm's , had 91% pass accuracy . Pivotal figure in Spain's formation. Even domestically he had a great season in La liga . Not even bothered to talk about Penaldo and his massive statpadding in 2013 .

Well its not secret that messi is absolute king in la liga


Also that CR7 outperformed messi in CL

Ronaldo had better stats only in past 3 seasons . specific . And yet Ronaldo never dominated Messi or Barcelona in La liga . Only in 2011&12 that he was able to steer them to a league win with him as focal point . In 2017-18 it was Morata , isco and Rmaos saving madrid's ass in final ten minutes .

 

[soul24rage]

2007- Kaka
2008- Ronaldo
2009- Messi
2010- Xavi
2011- Messi
2012- Messi
2013- Ribery
2014- Ronaldo
2015- Messi
2016- Suarez
2017- Ronaldo
2018- Messi /Modric

I agree with the list, but in 2014 I would switch Ronaldo with Neuer. Ronaldo only had the CL to rely on and he had a piss poor WC while Neuer won the domestic double & WC + best GK in WC + CL semi's.

Maybe in 2016, I would have been fine with Suarez/Ronaldo, which is similar to 2018- Messi/Modric although Modric should be the favorite.

 

[FCB1987]

I agree with the list, but in 2014 I would switch Ronaldo with Neuer. Ronaldo only had the CL to rely on and he had a piss poor WC while Neuer won the domestic double & WC + best GK in WC + CL semi's.

Maybe in 2016, I would have been fine with Suarez/Ronaldo, which is similar to 2018- Messi/Modric although Modric should be the favorite.

what did Neuer do to deserve Ballon d'Or? 2014 and 2008 were the two years Ronaldo clearly deserved.

 

[soul24rage]

what did Neuer do to deserve Ballon d'Or? 2014 and 2008 were the two years Ronaldo clearly deserved.

for the reasons I mentioned.

Ronaldo won the shared golden boot. La Liga was competed between ATM and Barca for most of the time.
CL top scorer (record but most of them were scored in the group stage)
CL (Ramos was the Real's important player)
Very poor WC.

Neuer (for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post) was more consistent throughout the whole season in all competitions so that's why I think he deserved it more than Ronaldo.

2008 and 2017 were the years Ronaldo deserved the most.

 

[FCB1987]

for the reasons I mentioned.

Ronaldo won the shared golden boot. La Liga was competed between ATM and Barca for most of the time.
CL top scorer (record but most of them were scored in the group stage)
CL (Ramos was the Real's important player)
Very poor WC.

Neuer (for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post) was more consistent throughout the whole season in all competitions so that's why I think he deserved it more than Ronaldo.

2008 and 2017 were the years Ronaldo deserved the most.

He scored 8 goals in 6 games of the 2014 CL knockout stages. He scored 17 in total so "most" were in the group stages but he still scored a ton in the knockout stages. He was also the clear best player in the first half of 14/15 where he scored 25 in La Liga alone. The only real argument against him is the terrible WC.

When you combine that with Messi having an off year with 0 trophies and Suarez winning nothing while being banned/shit for the first half of 14/15, then it's pretty clear he deserved the 2014 one.

 

[soul24rage]

He scored 8 goals in 6 games of the 2014 CL knockout stages. He scored 17 in total so "most" were in the group stages but he still scored a ton in the knockout stages. He was also the clear best player in the first half of 14/15 where he scored 25 in La Liga alone. The only real argument against him is the terrible WC.

When you combine that with Messi having an off year with 0 trophies and Suarez winning nothing while being banned/shit for the first half of 14/15, then it's pretty clear he deserved the 2014 one.

Most of Ronaldo's knockout stage goals that season didn't have much of an impact in their CL win except the one vs Dortmund. Ramos practically saved Real's CL win. Neuer was consistently good throughout most of the season and the 2014 calender year being influential in ALL competitions while Ronaldo was not so Neuer deserved it more for me.

 

[Pedro]

Does anyone like his new NEMEZIZ boots or is it all just about Ballon D'or talk on here?

 

[messi15478]

for the reasons I mentioned.

Ronaldo won the shared golden boot. La Liga was competed between ATM and Barca for most of the time.
CL top scorer (record but most of them were scored in the group stage)
CL (Ramos was the Real's important player)
Very poor WC.

Neuer (for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post) was more consistent throughout the whole season in all competitions so that's why I think he deserved it more than Ronaldo.

2008 and 2017 were the years Ronaldo deserved the most.

Ronaldo had 4 goals and two assists in round of 16, 1 goal in one match quarterfinal, 2 goals in 2 matches semi final and one goal and one assist in Final. He absolutely dominated the whole CL in 2014. In WC he was bad but also was injured. In the second half of 2014 he was outstanding destroyed nearly every oppenent.
I cant see why Neuer would have more deserved than Ronaldo that year.
2014 was his year like 2015 was Messis year.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

How is this troll still lurking in this Forum ?

 

[soul24rage]

Ronaldo had 4 goals and two assists in round of 16, 1 goal in one match quarterfinal, 2 goals in 2 matches semi final and one goal and one assist in Final. He absolutely dominated the whole CL in 2014. In WC he was bad but also was injured. In the second half of 2014 he was outstanding destroyed nearly every oppenent.
I cant see why Neuer would have more deserved than Ronaldo that year.
2014 was his year like 2015 was Messis year.

-He didn't dominated the whole CL in the year 2014. He played a part, but I would say the likes of Ramos and Di Maria were more important in the crucial moments.
-It was unfortunate that he was injured in the WC, but Portugal was still expected to get out of the group ahead of the US and Ghana.
-I agree that he was outstanding in the first half of the 14/15 but that's one half of the year.

Neuer was really consistently good for most of 2014 calender year in all competitions, especially in the WC. The only bad game was that 4-0 defeat to Real and for me that was down to Ramos, not CR. When CR scored his goals in the semi's and finals, the game was already over.

What you're saying with all the goals in the knockout stage in CL and the second half of 2014 is similar to Neymar in 2015. But I don't think a lot of people would say that Neymar deserved to win the ballon d'or in 2015. Plus Neymar had a bad Copa while Messi reached the finals.

 

[FCB1987]

-He didn't dominated the whole CL in the year 2014. He played a part, but I would say the likes of Ramos and Di Maria were more important in the crucial moments.
-It was unfortunate that he was injured in the WC, but Portugal was still expected to get out of the group ahead of the US and Ghana.
-I agree that he was outstanding in the first half of the 14/15 but that's one half of the year.

Neuer was really consistently good for most of 2014 calender year in all competitions, especially in the WC. The only bad game was that 4-0 defeat to Real and for me that was down to Ramos, not CR. When CR scored his goals in the semi's and finals, the game was already over.

What you're saying with all the goals in the knockout stage in CL and the second half of 2014 is similar to Neymar in 2015. But I don't think a lot of people would say that Neymar deserved to win the ballon d'or in 2015. Plus Neymar had a bad Copa while Messi reached the finals.

The reason why Neymar didn't deserve 2015 is because he was competing with an insane year from Messi. If Messi was as good in 2014 as he was in 2015, then obviously Ronaldo wouldn't deserve it. However, Ronaldo managed to have a very good 2014 at the same time that none of Messi, Suarez, Robben, etc. managed to make a strong enough case against him.

It's hard to compare goalkeeper with a striker but I don't think Neuer was that special or essential to Bayern or Germany enough to deserve it. Bayern would still have won Bundesliga without him and I don't remember many special saves that made the difference for Germany. I don't think he even made a single save in the final and should have conceded a penalty imo for the assault on Higuain.

 

[soul24rage]

The reason why Neymar didn't deserve 2015 is because he was competing with an insane year from Messi. If Messi was as good in 2014 as he was in 2015, then obviously Ronaldo wouldn't deserve it. However, Ronaldo managed to have a very good 2014 at the same time that none of Messi, Suarez, Robben, etc. managed to make a strong enough case against him.

It's hard to compare goalkeeper with a striker but I don't think Neuer was that special or essential to Bayern or Germany enough to deserve it. Bayern would still have won Bundesliga without him and I don't remember many special saves that made the difference for Germany. I don't think he even made a single save in the final and should have conceded a penalty imo for the assault on Higuain.

I was comparing Neymar's year in 2015 with CR's 2014 to show that just scoring X amount of goals in a knockout stage doesn't mean you are automatically the best player for that year and it could be misleading. For me, Ramos and Di Maria were the key players for the CL win as Messi was for 2015 (he only scored in one knockout game in 2015). CR's Ballon D'or 2014 was mostly based on the CL win and just as you didn't think Neuer was that special, I didn't think CR was that special in that CL (he was also invisible in most of the final and most of his goals in the knockout stage were not that impactful in the ties).

Oh if you have the time, you should watch Neuer's saves in the knockout stages of the WC, even the one vs Brazil as he made some great saves in the 2nd half. I agree that he should have conceded a penalty vs Higuain and possibly a red card, but I think that Neuer was mostly good in ALL the competitions that he played in that year while I think CR only had one good half of the year, which was the 2nd half. We should just agree to disagree as I don't think we're going to agree on the winner of 2014.