11/12 Lliga: Real Madrid - FC Barcelona 1-3

[Ron]

There is a reason why i'm opening my comment with this picture.
Yesterday, Carles Puyol showed everybody what is the true meaning of 'Barcelonismo'. The 33 years old veteran showed us that you don't need pace, agility or a high stamina to win a Classico; all you really need, is a Heart. one that cannot be broken.
The fact that Puyol can show up for every Classico and rise to the occasion is nothing short of admirable. at the age of 33, Carles Puyol is one of the greatest sportsman in the world today, a role model, a true professional and by far, the biggest symbol in F.C. Barcelona's rich history.

I'm am a Barcelona fan for almost 21 years now. I walked with this team through thick and thin. I've seen everything that there is to see, I've experienced everything, I cried and I laughed and I got everything a football fan can ask for, and even more. So why was this Classico any different?
This Classico showed me what this team was all about. bigger than the 5:0 of last year. why? because for the first time after some-odd years, we came as the underdog. with our back to the wall, we faced the most dominated team in the world in their own home and beat them, and that's not something to be taken for granted.

Everything was prepered for a showdown. Reial was in a great form as of lately while we were unstabaled. they were talking about revenge, about ending the dinesty, about opening a 9 points run and closing the deal right now. everything started perferctly for them after 22 seconds, and I started having flashback from the 5:0 of 94/95. but then our team showed me why they are the best team in the history of the game.
To be 0:1 down after 22 seconds and after a huge mistake like Valdes' done would've break any team in the world. but we're not any team. we have a genius for a manager and 11 fighters on the pitch. only a team like our could be in a situation like this and still keep their cool.

Xavi started to work, Messi opened up his jets, Busquets bossed the midfield, Iniesta was unstopable, Alexis was sharp, Cesc was the X-Factor, Alves was resolute and above all them - el Capita, Puyol.

There is something special about a club that can play however it want to in any stadium in the world, especially in the stadium of the self-proclaimed 'Best Team in The World', armed with millions of euros worth of players and still not fall apart after an early, while doing tactics adaptations through out the game because of our smart players and genius of a manager.

So thank you Barça, for giving me another unforgetable night. thank you Pep, for being the genius that you are. thank you Puyol, for your heart that is bigger then this planet and than you Mourinho, for being the best translator in the world. Hoy, Mañana y Siempre Blaugrana!

Visca Barça y Visca Catalunya!

 

[Barcaman]

Nicely summed up Ron. :beer2:
Even us who have been following Barca for few decades are taken aback with the level of football and success that Pep has masterminded with this wonderful team.

 

[Reasonus]

What an awesome thread this has turned into! Loved those pics. Great job guys.

I watched the game for a second time and things are clearer to me now. I stand by my word that Sergio was our best player in the first half. His positioning was immaculate and he was unbelievably calm when on the ball.

But come on, Xavis goal was pure luck. But I agree its a bit cynical of Mou to highlight the fact that way. The central part should have been it was tight and Barcelona put up a good game. Goals like that happen.

Nonsense. That was a goal, fair and square. Benzema's goal was down to luck. Deflected shots are a part of the game and when a player shoots from long range, he often hopes for a deflection and sometimes that is the sole purpose of the shot. Using the word "pure" only makes it less relevant since the shot came from a wonderful team play with slick short passes inside a very congested space. Unlike Madrid's goal, Barca created the chance and attempted to score but there was a deflection and that is that.

It's disheartening to see how commentators' comments influence the viewers' view on the game.

Victor made a brilliant save from Kaka's low shot and it was "a lucky save". Iker's fingertips barely touched Messi's attempt and it was a "world class save from the Spanish international captain".

I think Pep actually changed formation.Yeah, after about 10 minutes.
The first goal was no coincidence, the high pressure by Real was out of this world, possibly the best ever (though a hard fact to validate). But it lasted only a few minutes.

It certainly lasted longer than that. The reason Madrid's been winning more comfortably this season than the last is largely due to their pressing game which is largely based on Pep's pressing style.

Totally Agree with you, Ronaldo should av been subbed off and Benzema was your best player.
Di Maria was lively too.

If you are Mourinho, you don't want to expose your star man to more criticism and psychological stress. The season is not just about the Clasicos. Despite what most people want to believe, Ronaldo remains Madrid's most effective player and without him, they would be nowhere as good as they are now. He's not technical and he has a petulant nature. But he is one of the most dangerous players in the world.

Assessing any player by how they perform against Pep's Barcelona is unfair and inaccurate. World class defenders look like nervous debutants and master tacticians appear as clueless beginners when they face Barca.

 

[jairzinho]

I just finished watching the match for the 4th time.

Have to say our best players were Puyol, Iniesta, Messi and Alexis. Thats it. I'm done posting in this thread. Now its on to World Club Cup.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

Puyol = Maldini

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Puyol = Maldini

To be able to own a top shelf player like CR every single time, I agree solely based on that. Of course his trophies are impressive too.

 

[Trillske]

It's disheartening to see how commentators' comments influence the viewers' view on the game.

Dont look at me when you are talking to someone else.

As for calling an insane deflection leading to a ball bouncing of the post to find its way into the net not lucky.. Keep that as a personal opinion and you get away with it. You cant generalize a perspective like that, too few would agree.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Well Xavi went for the opportunity and played forward aggressive to get the result and it went his way? How do you explain the winning goal that Alves served on a silver plate for Cesc? Lucky?

 

[Reasonus]

As for calling an insane deflection leading to a ball bouncing of the post to find its way into the net not lucky.. Keep that as a personal opinion and you get away with it. You cant generalize a perspective like that, too few would agree.

A deflection is a deflection, just because the ball loses its velocity and teases the keeper before getting in off the post doesn't make it insane. I have seen quite a few goals from deflected shots over the years and I've rarely seen them called "lucky" goals. Maybe the keeper was called unlucky. That is all.

Why should I care if people agree with me or not. I just state the facts to clarify, whether others choose to be reasonable or not is up to them.

 

[Trillske]

A deflection is a deflection, just because the ball loses its velocity and teases the keeper before getting in off the post doesn't make it insane. I have seen quite a few goals from deflected shots over the years and I've rarely seen them called "lucky" goals. Maybe the keeper was called unlucky. That is all.

Why should I care if people agree with me or not. I just state the facts to clarify, whether others choose to be reasonable or not is up to them.

Left the name out because I just wanted to show the forum that this is what I was accused of doing, and I want to highlight the obvious fact that: I dont do this.

Well Xavi went for the opportunity and played forward aggressive to get the result and it went his way? How do you explain the winning goal that Alves served on a silver plate for Cesc? Lucky?

Of course not, Alves cross was inch perfect. Xavi missed and ended up scoring in a totaly unexpected way anyway. God was inch perfect. Big, big difference.

Doesnt mean Xavis effort was bad though, on the contrary it was a good job keeping the ball low.

 

[beautifulgame]

Let's begin at the beginning.

Why is Xavi's goal lucky?

And how is it different from any other goal that isn't lucky?

Finally, what is the difference between Xavi's goal and Benzema's goal?

 

[ivan22]

Let's begin at the beginning.

Why is Xavi's goal lucky?

And how is it different from any other goal that isn't lucky?

Finally, what is the difference between Xavi's goal and Benzema's goal?

Benzemas' Goal started with an error by valdes, caused by RM's high pressure. Then the ball was deflected twice by bisquits until it finally found benzema

Xavis' Goal started with a beautiful build up. This build up forced the madrid defender (I think it was marcelo) to clear the ball. The ball found xavi who tried his luck, the shot got deflected and thats it.

my conclusion: it wasnt pure "luck" that led to both goals

 

[Corb]

Let's begin at the beginning.

Why is Xavi's goal lucky?

And how is it different from any other goal that isn't lucky?

Finally, what is the difference between Xavi's goal and Benzema's goal?

Mourinho needed to hide his lack of tactic management and game control against Guardiola.

 

[Trillske]

Let's begin at the beginning.

2) Why is Xavi's goal lucky?

3) And how is it different from any other goal that isn't lucky?

1) Finally, what is the difference between Xavi's goal and Benzema's goal?

1) Dont think anyone has discussed Benzemas goal other than an above poster that without reason proposed it was actually lucky; contrary to Xavis.

2) Couple of reasons that makes a goal generally thought of as lucky:

- Not intended; tried to do something else. By hitting the defender, the shoot actually missed. Instead its the missfire that actually gives the goal.
- Inch perfect with a post in, again not in the intended area.
Luck is really just a word to say that the variables not known turned out the right way. Mou says Barca where lucky. If Real would have won, we´d probably say they where lucky. As even as the game played out, both would pretty much be right.

3) Grey area is huge and a lot of room is left for subjectivity, but denominators are usually stuff like:

Uknown factors:
- Intention: what did the player(s) try to do? Totally unexpected scenarios and therefore outcomes are uknown.

Variance:
- Is the margin reasonable? Is it skill to be an inch from failiure if you shoot from, say, 150 meters? If you for instance are able to aim it within a meter and you go for an inch, variance will decide more than your effort will, looking at one or two shoots alone. Your skill will pay of in a lifetime, not in a game.

Surroundings:
- Stuff like wierd weather changes, referee decisions.. ect. Stuff you just cant predict or do anything about.

Outcome:
How does the outcome relate to the above?

Its a quantitative (and simplified) way of looking at such an abstract area, but in somewhat of a nutshell.

 

[el tren]

Let's begin at the beginning.

Why is Xavi's goal lucky?

And how is it different from any other goal that isn't lucky?

Finally, what is the difference between Xavi's goal and Benzema's goal?

Its luck b/c Xavi hardly intended to hit an opponents player and let his shot deflect from it right onto the post and then into the net.

W/out intention, the outcome was based on luck. However, it also matters how likely a shot from that situation (regarding position, distance and GK position) leads to a goal. And id say that a 'true' shot from there rather rarely gets in ... maybe 5% of the times (kinda hypothetical number tho)? And then id call it a lucky shot.

Same like in poker when you have a 5% chance on the river to make a full house to beat the opponents flush when you went all in there. Taking away all the money is luck as well, nothing else.


EDIT: Saw Trillskes post after i wrote mine. Basically has all in there already, even more detailed