11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

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khorne

New member
It's not about using beautiful exotic football skills, it's about the deliberate slowing down and waggling your foot beforehand, which serves no purpose other than telling the defender "look at mah skillz, yo"
It's definitely a fine line between artful play and showboating, but for me that line is crossed when you have better and more efficient options game-wise, but you ignore them for a piece of skill that hampers your game even if you pull it off. Compare what neymar tried against atletic to this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5pJxvQK4Xg
Using a beautiful skill to create a dangerous situation, no sane person would call that showboating, that's football of the highest order.

That being said, i think a 23 year old is entitled to pull off something like that, but so are his coach and veteran team mates to criticize him for it.
 

Vlom

Previously known as Mehssi
I have nothing against Xavi or Lucho talking to him about it or commenting as they did in the vestuary, in the privacy of what goes on in the squad, but saying it publicly, hence encouraging Athletic and ATM thugs to keep going mental on him for anything when they're losing, is plain wrong, we'll all see how wrong it was next season.
 

Height18

New member
It's not about using beautiful exotic football skills, it's about the deliberate slowing down and waggling your foot beforehand, which serves no purpose other than telling the defender "look at mah skillz, yo"
It's definitely a fine line between artful play and showboating, but for me that line is crossed when you have better and more efficient options game-wise, but you ignore them for a piece of skill that hampers your game even if you pull it off. Compare what neymar tried against atletic to this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5pJxvQK4Xg
Using a beautiful skill to create a dangerous situation, no sane person would call that showboating, that's football of the highest order.

That being said, i think a 23 year old is entitled to pull off something like that, but so are his coach and veteran team mates to criticize him for it.

More non sense rules just plucked out of no where. The stop and wiggle of the foot is something he always does no matter the situations. And did it a few times right at the start of Juventus game.

0:05, 0:25
[youtube]f7lUC9_p-po[/youtube]

And it does serve a purpose its to draw the defender closer to him.
 
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Jadentheman

Active member
More non sense rules just plucked out of no where. The stop and wiggle of the foot is something he always does no matter the situations. And did it a few times right at the start of Juventus game.

0:05, 0:25
[youtube]f7lUC9_p-po[/youtube]

And it does serve a purpose its to draw the defender closer to him.

The wiggle and stop is actually helps him within Barca's system, because they way players are positioned and the space around him. He needs to slow things down so he can scan his options while actually being unpredictable.
 

BerkeleyBernie

Senior Member
The wiggle and stop is actually helps him within Barca's system, because they way players are positioned and the space around him. He needs to slow things down so he can scan his options while actually being unpredictable.

Well, not really, the exact opposite. He has plenty of options, that's the infuriating thing. I can't count how many times he has made his teammates stand by watching his foot wagging while the opposition closes down options.

He started passing more in the last couple of months, rather than always his *very* predictable foot wag and dribble across the field. I hope he continues to reduce this bad momentum-killing habit.
 

Barcalove

Banned
Well, not really, the exact opposite. He has plenty of options, that's the infuriating thing. I can't count how many times he has made his teammates stand by watching his foot wagging while the opposition closes down options.

He started passing more in the last couple of months, rather than always his *very* predictable foot wag and dribble across the field. I hope he continues to reduce this bad momentum-killing habit.

What about the first goal in the champions final? He did that
 

BerkeleyBernie

Senior Member
What about the first goal in the champions final? He did that

I have no problem with players (including Neymar) trying to beat a marker inside/near the opponent's box. But the great majority of his footwagging has happened out at the touchline close to the halfline, where all it does is take his teammates out of the play, kills momentum, and allows the opponent to solidify their defense. Even if he does manage to beat one marker after holding the ball for 5 seconds, he is completely contained, because any potential openings have been closed off.

I get it, he wants to be like Messi, but he's not in the same universe; his ballholding footwags are closer in effectiveness to an Alves cross than it is to a Messi take-on. Even Messi is not successful most of the time. However, Messi is usually successful in creating opportunities with his dribbles multiple times per game- if not for himself, for his teammates. Neymar simply doesn't have that kind of vision; he can only focus his attention on taking on his marker, and can't see further ahead (unless it's carrying the ball halfway across the field until Messi comes into view). Messi is ridiculously gifted in being able to shift his focus quickly from his own dribbling to the other options available. Sure, Neymar can keep working on it, but I personally doubt he'll ever be that kind of player. He even has trouble evaluating his options while counterattacking, where he has much more space and time to look.

In any case, I think he (and the team) are better off when he keeps the ball moving and does what he does best- getting into scoring positions where others can get him the ball. The more he holds the ball up, the less opportunity he has to do so.
 
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Barcalove

Banned
I have no problem with players (including Neymar) trying to beat a marker inside/near the opponent's box. But the great majority of his footwagging has happened out at the touchline close to the halfline, where all it does is take his teammates out of the play, kills momentum, and allows the opponent to solidify their defense. Even if he does manage to beat one marker after holding the ball for 5 seconds, he is completely contained, because any potential openings have been closed off.

I get it, he wants to be like Messi, but he's not in the same universe; his ballholding footwags are closer in effectiveness to an Alves cross than it is to a Messi take-on. Even Messi is not successful most of the time. However, Messi is usually successful in creating opportunities with his dribbles multiple times per game- if not for himself, for his teammates. Neymar simply doesn't have that kind of vision; he can only focus his attention on taking on his marker, and can't see further ahead (unless it's carrying the ball halfway across the field until Messi comes into view). Messi is ridiculously gifted in being able to shift his focus quickly from his own dribbling to the other options available. Sure, Neymar can keep working on it, but I personally doubt he'll ever be that kind of player. He even has trouble evaluating his options while counterattacking, where he has much more space and time to look.

In any case, I think he (and the team) are better off when he keeps the ball moving and do what he does best- getting into scoring positions where others can get him the ball. The more he holds the ball up, the less opportunity he has to do so.
Great post
 

Height18

New member
In any case, I think he (and the team) are better off when he keeps the ball moving and does what he does best- getting into scoring positions where others can get him the ball. The more he holds the ball up, the less opportunity he has to do so.

Once again not getting credit for:
[tw]603234278462365697[/tw]

Anyone knows how much Neymar ended up with? Cant find the final total anywhere. People have this narrative that Neymar never creates or is on the lower end on the team.

[tw]607561418175451136[/tw]

Can he improve even more at this? Of course, my issue is if you went by the way some people speak you would think all Neymar does is some skills here and there, chill and wait on goals to come his way.
 
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i_bleed_blaugrana

Senior Member
I have no problem with players (including Neymar) trying to beat a marker inside/near the opponent's box. But the great majority of his footwagging has happened out at the touchline close to the halfline, where all it does is take his teammates out of the play, kills momentum, and allows the opponent to solidify their defense. Even if he does manage to beat one marker after holding the ball for 5 seconds, he is completely contained, because any potential openings have been closed off.

I get it, he wants to be like Messi, but he's not in the same universe; his ballholding footwags are closer in effectiveness to an Alves cross than it is to a Messi take-on. Even Messi is not successful most of the time. However, Messi is usually successful in creating opportunities with his dribbles multiple times per game- if not for himself, for his teammates. Neymar simply doesn't have that kind of vision; he can only focus his attention on taking on his marker, and can't see further ahead (unless it's carrying the ball halfway across the field until Messi comes into view). Messi is ridiculously gifted in being able to shift his focus quickly from his own dribbling to the other options available. Sure, Neymar can keep working on it, but I personally doubt he'll ever be that kind of player. He even has trouble evaluating his options while counterattacking, where he has much more space and time to look.

In any case, I think he (and the team) are better off when he keeps the ball moving and does what he does best- getting into scoring positions where others can get him the ball. The more he holds the ball up, the less opportunity he has to do so.

[youtube]FchxkrkAl7c[/youtube]

That's useless showboating.

Neymar should never stop dribbling. Ever. It's his best attribute and the reason why he is on the team. You can Mourinho and scheme your team to have the perfect tactics and preparation but that goes out the window when you have multiple players who can beat multiple players on their own.

The footwaggle isn't even showboating, it disguises what he is going to do next, keeping defenders hesitant so he can have that extra second in space to create magic.

I won't bother with posting it now, but statistically Neymar is easily one of the most effective dribblers in the game with only Messi better and Hazard reasonably close in ability.

Lastly, Messi was far from the multidimensional force that he is now. With Rijkaard, he was very much like Neymar in terms of his decision making with trying to do too much when it isn't on. He would go on blind runs a lot and granted he'd pull it out occasionally because he was still genial then but Pep was crucial in expanding Messi's skill set and helped guide him into the playmaker he is now. That's what's crazy about Messi, he's practically a CAM who can score 2-3 goals a game from deep lol.

Point being, players evolve as they grow older. Neymar can go through a similar transformation and especially if he can learn to look for the killer pass more yet know when it's on for him to do it himself, taking responsibility for making something happen, that's when he will start being at Messi's level.

His improvement from this year to last was remarkable however, so it's not fair to assume he can't continue to improve in this aspect of the game. He had some crucial moments early in the season when he made something happen when we were struggling for inspiration.
 

FCBarca

Mike the Knife
That being said, i think a 23 year old is entitled to pull off something like that, but so are his coach and veteran team mates to criticize him for it.

Agreed...I recognize & appreciate both perspectives on it - in truth, the move itself, IMO, was stupid only because he didn't pull it off & frankly how likely is he going to succeed with that in European football....Might've pulled it off in Brasil but it's a low percentage, high risk move when other (And better) options could've actually succeeded in beating the players
 

Jadentheman

Active member
Because it's relevant


Here's various highlights of Ronnie's on the ball moments in Camp Nou against the same team. Lots of showboating. Effective showboating at that (lead to attacks, assists, and goals). You can tell he attempted tricks and nutmegs as well. This was one of his performances that people considered art. The same stuff that people complained that Neymar does. Do I spot Xavi in this video?
 
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Bran the Greenseer

Well-known member
Who cares he scored in both finals of our treble and he's only improving. In 3 years we'll have someone to take over for Messi in him he's the best attacking purchase since Ronaldinho and could prove to be even better than him.

Edit: Nevermind Neymar will never be as good as Ronaldinho, that video makes me question Messi's greatness even :lol:
 
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G

Gasgas

Guest
He is a tied second best and most effective dribbler in europe, what do you want him to be? Get the ball and pass back everytime?
I was always told to use all the talent I have. I refuse to see neymar lose the neymar that impressed us enough to spend millionson,
Even messi doesnt have 100% dribble success, he has somewhere around 68, neymar is not far off but heey let's bash the new guy since we cant accept that a team can have more than one leading dribbler.
He is affecting/destroying our game?
Well newsflash we just won the fecking treble fecking convincingly, I wonder what a winger who just passes back would do.
In my book if a winger keeps passing back,he has nothing to create and so has to give t back to a more creative player.
Neymar is creative himself, statistics show it and we are a chance taking team under lucho,if you think you can dribble or fool a defender to create a chance then do it, and thts how we won our treble.
Skilled players want time on the ball and each has his own style, it would be a disgrace to football if we convert neymar to another pedro or cuenca
 
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