11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[JamDav1982]

Neymar is a much better and more effective player than Riquelme the way he is.

He lost a lot of balls last night, more than he should have but he doesnt need to adapt or change his game to be like anyone else. Certainly not inferior players.

Messi, Suarez and Ney will often be the players that lose the ball the most and last night Ney was bad for it but also created some of the few times that Barca opened them up.

 

[JamDav1982]

Also, and all of you who think he will take over after Messi - carry this team. Not gonna' happen. When on form, he is a brilliant creative winger - but when Messi retires we need somebody with a higher football IQ - yes Dybala, I'm talking about you

He will be the main man when Messi goes and could well be the best player in the world doing it.

Dybala is nowhere near the player Ney is. It isnt even close.

 

[ViscaBarca99]

Also, and all of you who think he will take over after Messi - carry this team. Not gonna' happen. When on form, he is a brilliant creative winger - but when Messi retires we need somebody with a higher football IQ - yes Dybala, I'm talking about you

I disagree. Neymar is at the time the only U25 Player in the world who has not only the technical abilities and the Talent to lead a Team like Barcelona, but most importantly the mental strength - and i'm talking about playing under immense pressure. Of Course he uses to lash out verbally sometimes when he is getting frustrated and he likes to act stupid (which he Needs to stop asap), but nobody here can say that he is no big game Player for Barcelona - almost always delivers in the big games. Not to mention carrying brazil on his shoulders.

You rarely get a Player of his Talent who doesn't dip in form the Moment he has to take the lead. Dybala is a great Player, a great Talent, but he is not on Neymars Level.

 

[Devils]

First, nobody is going to 'carry' Barca the way Messi does. Messi is an anomaly and an outlier to the realm to which players should be held in comparison to. Any player held to that metric whether it be Neymar, Dybala or whoever is going to disappoint.

There is a lot of unfair criticism of Neymar especially the "he's never going to carry Barca" or "he's never going to be the main man" or "he's never going to fill Messi's role"

He doesn't have to do any of those things to be a brilliant player for us.

And whether he does those things or not, it's outrageous to make extrapolations like that based on what has been a below-par 2016 for Neymar.

 

[JamDav1982]

Also, and all of you who think he will take over after Messi - carry this team. Not gonna' happen. When on form, he is a brilliant creative winger - but when Messi retires we need somebody with a higher football IQ - yes Dybala, I'm talking about you

Who is the player that will score and assist like Neymar but have a more Messi like IQ?

There isnt one or anyone placed to be better than Neymar as focus of Barca attack.

There is no player like Messi that can score/assist and dictate tempo from deep he is a freak. If Messi were to leave they wouldnt try to turn Ney into him they would allow Ney to be focus of attack and probably focus on upgrading the likes of Rakitic to give midfield more quality on ball and more dictating of tempo and leave Ney to be difference maker in final third.

That is not a dig at Raki as he does his job of covering Messi largely free role and plugs the gaps but if not for that Barca can do a lot better than him in other aspects such as dictating play.

 

[Icarium]

Neymar is our best creater after messi. Iniesta in form is better but hard for him to be in his highest form every match. Neymar can also score well. So he has the all skills to lead barca. But this year neymar definitely cant do it he needs to perform better. More of 2015 neymar is required.

 

[BBZ8800]

I disagree. Neymar is at the time the only U25 Player in the world who has not only the technical abilities and the Talent to lead a Team like Barcelona, but most importantly the mental strength

I will pretend that you weren't serious about this and that you are just trolling.

It will be much easier.

 

[Neymessi]

About this thing, well we are not idiots, and of course if someone just plays simple sideway passes with 0% of risk, that guy will have 90-100% passing accuracy, only 1-2 lost balls and zero end product.
While if someone like Ney will try to produce a key assist to his teammates with high risk passes, that he will have a lot of lost balls, but he will have some end product in the end (like yesterday with tons of lost balls and 1-2 good balls in the end).

Well, as others mentioned, there is also a middle ground between those 2 options:
1. you don't need to play safe sideway passes
2. but you also don't need to dribble past 4 defenders or try to make a killer through ball IN EVERY SINGLE ACTION, like Neymar did yesterday

I don't know how old are you and whether you watched Barca in early 2000's.
Back then, we bought an insanely talented player, Argentinian attacking midfielder Juan Roman Riquelme.
A guy was insane when you give him freedom and when you build a team around him. In those days, he was hailed as the new Maradona (as always).

Anyway, he had a somewhat similar problem as Neymar lately:
= he tried to create a killer pass, dribble past 3-4 players IN EVERY SINGLE ACTION.
He almost NEVER played a fast, simple pass, no matter what was happening on a field.

And while his approach did create some nice assists and goals from time, our team as a whole played much weaker when Riquelme was on a field, than when we played with some less talented player who played simpler and thus our team played better, faster and created more chances (in a classic Barca's Tiki-Taka or a shortpassing-fast passing style).

In those days, Riquelme was sold very fast from our team because he was killing our build up play and our nice flow.
Ok, Neymar is much more talented than Riquelme (even though Riquelme was something like Modric/Kros/Iniesta/Coutinho back then).

My point is: yes, Neymar tries a lot, this is why he loses balls and this is why he has some assists in the end.
But still, his game could be improved a lot if he would use his brains more often and not try to dribble/create a deadly pass in every single action.
Play some simple passes and in right moments, try some risky moves.

Here is a video about Riquelme at Barca.
Some guys will understand the point and my comparison with Neymar.
Look at this video and how Riquelme almost never plays fast, simple passes and always tries a killer through ball which will send our attacker 1 vs 1 with a goalkeeper, and too often when he is in a good position, he waits for too long (he waits for a perfect moment to create a killer pass), and while he waits, he is soon surrounded by 3-4 defenders.

Neymar is not exactly the same, but he is doing some same mistakes as Riquelme back then.

An interesting thing for me: Riquelme was sold right away, but with Neymar, Barto will try to build a team around him (around that style of play) and coaches are probably afraid to even tell to Neymar what he is doing wrong.
Strange times...

I never said this approach of his is great.

I am just pointing it out that a large part of his bad performance is a side effect of trying something new and risky all the time and not because he is just shit.

I think even the anti-neymar users on this forum would agree that skill wise,he is undoubtedly good enough. Most would say 2nd best after messi. The disparity in his actual performace arises from him having a brain of a donkey and ultra-shit decision making. I see a lot of appreciation for messi everywhere but I rarely see people applauding his footballing intellect. His footballing IQ is extrateresstrial. He knows exactly when to dribble 4 players, when to pass,who to pass, how to pass etc etc Even when he acts selfish and doesn't pass it has good reason behind it. Hardly remember him making bad moves or bad decisions occasionally.

If messi's brain was transplanted into neymar's body it would do wonders as skill wise neymar is the closest to messi probably. Don't know why neymar still has a retarded footballing brain. And its not like this was always his problem. He used to be fine in this aspect last to last season and the first half of the next but turned to this soon.

IF he was a 20 year old I wouldn't be too worried because he would have a lot of time to improve his footballing iq but right now he is 24.5 and thats what worries me.

 

[ViscaBarca99]

I will pretend that you weren't serious about this and that you are just trolling.

It will be much easier.

If you would read my whole post, not just one line, you would understand that i'm not talking of acting mature. He uses to freak out pretty often, which i mentioned.
I'm talking about delivering under pressure. You cannot expect from any player to take the creative role in messis absence that easily (ofc he cannot be compared to messi himself). If i remember, he scored against all big opponents, including the finals (CL final most importantely). You canNOT expect that from any player. And i didn't even talked about his first world cup, crucial penalties and his role for brazil.

Point is: Neymars performances usually don't crumble against big opponents and big occassions because he gets nervous or something (unlike many other young players).
And since i know you'll mention the game against atletico. I'm NOT saying he delivers everytime!

 

[BBZ8800]

If you would read my whole post, not just one line, you would understand that i'm not talking of acting mature. He uses to freak out pretty often, which i mentioned.
I'm talking about delivering under pressure. You cannot expect from any player to take the creative role in messis absence that easily (ofc he cannot be compared to messi himself). If i remember, he scored against all big opponents, including the finals (CL final most importantely). You canNOT expect that from any player. And i didn't even talked about his first world cup, crucial penalties and his role for brazil.

Point is: Neymars performances usually don't crumble against big opponents and big occassions because he gets nervous or something (unlike many other young players).
And since i know you'll mention the game against atletico. I'm NOT saying he delivers everytime!

Ok, you are new here so we need to repeat some claims from the side which doesn't like Neymar currently too much.

Opinion from some of us is:
1. his first season at Barca was meh/average
2. 2014/15 was awesome, he was the 2nd best player in the world then
3. 2015/16, a good start when Messi didn't play, but then Neymar disappeared after a New year
-- in 2016 he was a crap in a CL knockout matches when we needed him the most
-- plus, he was invisible in the last 10-15 La liga rounds when we lost 10 points advantage over Real and when Messi and Suarez saved our asses in the end
4. 2016/17 for now is average again. Banging goals against Mickey mouse opponents in 7:0 and 5:1 trashings (Celtic, Leganes, Gijon), and quite poor whenever we played against a tougher team (Atletico) or when he needs to step up as a leader in the absence of Messi (Alaves, Gladbach)

So, you see, guys who dislike Neymar mostly dislike him because we think that he should have given way more to Barca than he did, based on his 100M transfer and based on his footballing skills.
Till now, he had one awesome season, and 2 meh seasons.
If this one will turn to be another average season, then we'll have a problem. We will have a guy with 1 season where he was a key factor out of his 4 seasons.

So, more or less, we don't think that he is not a world class player, but that his IQ stupidity, slowing down the game, unneeded tricks, partying too much are ruining his career and that he should have given way more than he gave to us (Barca).

I think even the anti-neymar users on this forum would agree that skill wise,he is undoubtedly good enough.

Of course, skills wise he is good enough.
But as you said, IQ wise, decision's making, trying to please the crowd too often, trying tricks as if he is in Hollywood and not on a field etc...

Don't know why neymar still has a retarded footballing brain. And its not like this was always his problem. He used to be fine in this aspect last to last season and the first half of the next but turned to this soon.

IF he was a 20 year old I wouldn't be too worried because he would have a lot of time to improve his footballing iq but right now he is 24.5 and thats what worries me.

Imo, THIS is a real/natural/default Neymar.

Neymar was similar as a teenager in Brasil.
This is a real Neymar, when he does too many tricks and when he slows down the game.

Neymar from 2014/15 and from autumn 2015 wasn't a natural Neymar.
Imo, he was playing against his natural instincts then when he played simpler, faster and more efficient.

Since he is getting older, and since his ego and fame are bigger and bigger, imo, it will be harder and harder for coaches to force him to kill his natural (playful) instincts and to play simpler and more efficient like in 2014/15.

You probably remember that we made tons of jokes on chat last season about Neymar: dribbling backwards again and wtf is he doing?
He played this way during the whole 2016 for Barca.
He played this way for Brasil at Olympics, but luckily they won a tournament, due to weak opponents.
He played this way for Brasilian NT in qualifiers lately.
He plays this way (slowing down the game, tons of tricks) for Barca in autumn of 2016 again.
(Some will say that he is assisting and scoring, but that is not the point.
The point is that he plays like "original/default" Neymar again when he tries too many tricks and slows down the game too much. And that is not good for Barca).

Ok, this was a match from a group phase of Olympics, and he played better later.
But I am posting this just to compare his current Barca's style of playing with his NT style of play and imo, they are the same.
It seems that it is Ney's new thing now. This is how he plays. He goes in the middle often, he enjoys to have the ball for 15-20 seconds in his feet, he slows down the game all the time, he dribbles past 3-4 opponents too often, he dives, he fights etc.

So, imo, this video resembles a lot to what Neymar did yesterday against Gladbach. So many wrong decisions, dribbling backwards, keeping the ball for 15 seconds, playing through the middle too often etc:

So, yes, you asked some good questions.
How to return Neymar from 2014/15?
Extremely hard question.

I am not sure whether he wants to play that way again at all :/

 

[BBZ8800]

Neymar yesterday:

good/simple passes: 5
backpass: 2
key assists: 1 (Suarez)
assist: 1 (Arda's goal)
shots: 1 into a keeper
lost balls/bad passes/bad dribbles/random mistakes: 16
fouled: 1

 

[ViscaBarca99]

Ok, you are new here so we need to repeat some claims from the side which doesn't like Neymar currently too much.

Opinion from some of us is:
1. his first season at Barca was meh/average
2. 2014/15 was awesome, he was the 2nd best player in the world then
3. 2015/16, a good start when Messi didn't play, but then Neymar disappeared after a New year
-- in 2016 he was a crap in a CL knockout matches when we needed him the most
-- plus, he was invisible in the last 10-15 La liga rounds when we lost 10 points advantage over Real and when Messi and Suarez saved our asses in the end
4. 2016/17 for now is average again. Banging goals against Mickey mouse opponents in 7:0 and 5:1 trashings (Celtic, Leganes, Gijon), and quite poor whenever we played against a tougher team (Atletico) or when he needs to step up as a leader in the absence of Messi (Alaves, Gladbach)

So, you see, guys who dislike Neymar mostly dislike him because we think that he should have given way more to Barca than he did, based on his 100M transfer and based on his footballing skills.
Till now, he had one awesome season, and 2 meh seasons.
If this one will turn to be another average season, then we'll have a problem. We will have a guy with 1 season where he was a key factor out of his 4 seasons.

So, more or less, we don't think that he is not a world class player, but that his IQ stupidity, slowing down the game, unneeded tricks, partying too much are ruining his career and that he should have given way more than he gave to us (Barca).



Of course, skills wise he is good enough.
But as you said, IQ wise, decision's making, trying to please the crowd too often, trying tricks as if he is in Hollywood and not on a field etc...



Imo, THIS is a real/natural/default Neymar.

Neymar was similar as a teenager in Brasil.
This is a real Neymar, when he does too many tricks and when he slows down the game.

Neymar from 2014/15 and from autumn 2015 wasn't a natural Neymar.
Imo, he was playing against his natural instincts then when he played simpler, faster and more efficient.

Since he is getting older, and since his ego and fame are bigger and bigger, imo, it will be harder and harder for coaches to force him to kill his natural (playful) instincts and to play simpler and more efficient like in 2014/15.

You probably remember that we made tons of jokes on chat last season about Neymar: dribbling backwards again and wtf is he doing?
He played this way during the whole 2016 for Barca.
He played this way for Brasil at Olympics, but luckily they won a tournament, due to weak opponents.
He played this way for Brasilian NT in qualifiers lately.
He plays this way (slowing down the game, tons of tricks) for Barca in autumn of 2016 again.
(Some will say that he is assisting and scoring, but that is not the point.
The point is that he plays like "original/default" Neymar again when he tries too many tricks and slows down the game too much. And that is not good for Barca).

Ok, this was a match from a group phase of Olympics, and he played better later.
But I am posting this just to compare his current Barca's style of playing with his NT style of play and imo, they are the same.
It seems that it is Ney's new thing now. This is how he plays. He goes in the middle often, he enjoys to have the ball for 15-20 seconds in his feet, he slows down the game all the time, he dribbles past 3-4 opponents too often, he dives, he fights etc.

So, imo, this video resembles a lot to what Neymar did yesterday against Gladbach. So many wrong decisions, dribbling backwards, keeping the ball for 15 seconds, playing through the middle too often etc:

So, yes, you asked some good questions.
How to return Neymar from 2014/15?
Extremely hard question.

I am not sure whether he wants to play that way again at all :/

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

Okay, since I'm "quite new here", i think i should tell you this... I am following this Forum and this thread since 2014, pal. I know what's going on here.
First of all, you're speaking as if you talk for everybody here. But i can't see a lot of People agreeing fully with you (despite Bojan). So, i believe that this is your Point of view, not from everyone in this thread.
I may be "quite new here", but i'm not dumb

Point is, if you're expecting someone like Messi for a supposedly 100M Boy from Brazil, then i have to tell you that you're simply have too unrealistic expectations. And you don't seem to stop to demand 10/10 Performances from Neymar against each and everyone.
I suggest you to look at other Players of Neymars age at the Moment at other Teams and compare those with him. Griezmann, Bale, Hazard,... they barely have consistent Seasons, Bale Played poorly in a lot of CL games recently, Griezmann failed in CL final and Euro final.
And then look at Neymar.

I don't exactly see why you see his 2016/17 Season as average. He scored Goals, he assisted, he played poorly against Gladbach, but had two good Moments and saved us the game (because thats what good Players do too - provide crucial Moments despite playing awful. Suarez got a lot of praise for Performances like this). Statistical wise Neymar is one of the best in europe so far into the Season. And he failed in games where Messi and Suarez and others also failed. I don't get what you expect, but if this is average for you, you seem to have a Problem.

If you think, there a oh so many People agreeing with your essays here, i have to say: you're wrong.
In some Points, you're absolutely right. But it's also clear that you seem to find something to critisize simply in every Thing he does, because you seem to disappear when he scores/assists/has good stats, but write pages when he he doesn't.

There is something you NEED to realize as soon as possible: Neymar is NO Messi (Because there never will be). He will never be an unrisky Player. He will not always give 10/10 Performances, just because we supposedly paid 100M for him. And there a LOT of Barca Fans who actually Support him despite him not delivering this Kind of Performances that you expect. Look at them as some Kind of example, maybe.

I'm afraid to say: The Kind of Player you want to see... doesn't exist. (except his Name is Lionel Messi)

 

[JamDav1982]

BBZ Neymar had 37 passes and found his man over two thirds of time at 67% he must have had more than 5 simple passes.

He touched the ball 79 times and gave it away from poor touch or tackled 18 times.

All from whoscored.

What he did do well was created the most chances, had most through balls, had second most tackles etc.

He was hit or miss. Gave it away too often but was still Barcas biggest threat despite being poor overall.

 

[SahanBarca]

Assists recorded in the Champions League this season:

Neymar (5)
Man City (5)
Dortmund (5)
Bayern Munich (4)
Juventus (2)

Haters can hate !

 

[RMU ReBorn]

He will be the main man when Messi goes and could well be the best player in the world doing it.

Dybala is nowhere near the player Ney is. It isnt even close.

Question is how long will he stay here , looking at how greedy his dad is .