11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

[Ousmane Dembélé]

Can't wait to see him back so Paulinho can finally head back to the bench where he belongs.

I would like to see a 4-2-3-1 (with Coutinho) or 4-3-3 (with Iniesta) when everyone's fit again.

Roberto-Pique-Umtiti-Alba

Busquets-Rakitic

Dembele-Messi-Coutinho

Suarez

OR

Roberto-Pique-Umtiti-Alba

Rakitic-Busquets-Iniesta

Dembele-Messi-Suarez


Raki has proven to be a very good DM so a double pivot with him and Busi could be successful.

 

[Messi983]

British tabloids are on fire these days.

"Chelsea want Dembele"
"Dembele angered at Messi and Suarez for their support for Coutinho"
"Coutinho doesn't speak with Dembele"

The last one could be true. Dembele is injured and doesn't show up at trainings, perhaps they haven't met each other, yet.

Or they actually don't speak the same language. AFAIK Dembele only speaks French (and maybe a bit of German) and I don't know if Coutinho really speaks any of those languages. So yeah, maybe they have problems to communicate but that doesn't mean what tabloids are saying.

 

[Raki13]

I find it hard to see Dembele , Messi Suarez and Coutinho all starting any games. Don't think it will work.

 

[MessiCam]

I find it hard to see Dembele , Messi Suarez and Coutinho all starting any games. Don't think it will work.

Me too, and adding Griezmann will only complicate it further.

 

[Ousmane Dembélé]

I find it hard to see Dembele , Messi Suarez and Coutinho all starting any games. Don't think it will work.

Why not? We've been playing Paulinho in his place and it's not like he offers anything defensively.

 

[Barcaman]

Offers more defensively than Dembele ever could. Key is balance and we are yet to find it with Coutinho who is more disciplined.

 

[Raki13]

Why not? We've been playing Paulinho in his place and it's not like he offers anything defensively.

You are having a laugh , Paulinho has done well since he came , and thats from someone who didn't want him near the club. Comical comparing the two defensively.

It wasn't a dig at Dembele , its four big egos and i don't think they will all fit on the park together.

We don't need to be wasting cash on Griezman either.

 

[BBZ8800]

Can't wait to see him back so Paulinho can finally head back to the bench where he belongs.

I would like to see a 4-2-3-1 (with Coutinho) or 4-3-3 (with Iniesta) when everyone's fit again.

Roberto-Pique-Umtiti-Alba

Busquets-Rakitic

Dembele-Messi-Coutinho

Suarez

OR

Roberto-Pique-Umtiti-Alba

Rakitic-Busquets-Iniesta

Dembele-Messi-Suarez


Raki has proven to be a very good DM so a double pivot with him and Busi could be successful.

Coutinho is not in a lineup in your 2nd lineup.
That will never happen.

Why not? We've been playing Paulinho in his place and it's not like he offers anything defensively.

Some other players won't win as many duels in the next 2-3 years at Barca.

 

[Joan]

Why not? We've been playing Paulinho in his place and it's not like he offers anything defensively.

Even if it's so, don't have high hopes since it didn't work

 

[MessiCam]

Why not? We've been playing Paulinho in his place and it's not like he offers anything defensively.

It's not often I agree with [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] but, after seeing Coutinho in his 2 appearances, regardless of the formation I struggle to see how the both of them fit in if both Suarez and Messi play. Coutinho is just too attacking as far as I'm concerned for someone that's going to play in midfield.

We're right back to where we were with Lucho and after thinking about it the only way to fit them all in and still maintain balance is switching to a 3 man defence but this leaves Alba and Roberto out in the cold...

 

[henias]

It's not often I agree with [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] but, after seeing Coutinho in his 2 appearances, regardless of the formation I struggle to see how the both of them fit in if both Suarez and Messi play. Coutinho is just too attacking as far as I'm concerned for someone that's going to play in midfield.

We're right back to where we were with Lucho and after thinking about it the only way to fit them all in and still maintain balance is switching to a 3 man defence but this leaves Alba and Roberto out in the cold...

I called it the moment we were hyping Coutinho as the perfect midfielder. He's actually very similar to Neymar's abilities. And he's way too attacking to strike any balance in midfield and even Valverde admitted it and say Coutinho is more of an attacking mid while Iniesta is a more complete midfielder. Now we have Dembele and I dont even know how he'll fit in a balanced system.

 

[MessiCam]

I called it the moment we were hyping Coutinho as the perfect midfielder. He's actually very similar to Neymar's abilities. And he's way too attacking to strike any balance in midfield and even Valverde admitted it and say Coutinho is more of an attacking mid while Iniesta is a more complete midfielder. Now we have Dembele and I dont even know how he'll fit in a balanced system.

I agree. Coutinho is no central midfielder and using him as such is waste of his talents.

And if we play him together with Suarez and Messi in a front 3 we end up with a lopsided ride midfield.





Look at Messi/Suarez and then look at Rakitic...

You can't even play Coutinho in Iniesta's position because you basically end up with a front 4 and a 2 man midfield. It's really going to be fun from here on out... And then some still want Griezmann.

 

[FCBfan22]

Well, it's a little bit unfair to compare Lucho's positional maps with Valverde's, because the players have been a lot more positionaly disciplined under Valverde (apart from Pique, who does what he wants).

When everybody is fit, we will defend in 4-4-0 formation (or 4-4-2 if Messi and Suarez decide to press their CB's). That's a given. We have been using this formation when defending in every game when Messi and Suarez were on the pitch. So regardless of who is on the wing when attacking, he will need to drop into LM/RM position when defending.

Attacking wise things get a little bit complicated. Why:

-Suarez prefers to be in position of the left striker, with ocassionaly going right, when Messi drifts left.
-Messi has a completely free role, so relying on him to be in a certain position is stupid.
-Alba wants free space on his wing.

So, IMHO, the best we can do is Coutinho as LM, 2 pivots, Dembele as RM advancing to RW when attacking (Vidal role against Espanyol), Suarez as a ST and Messi in a free role.

 

[MessiCam]

Well, it's a little bit unfair to compare Lucho's positional maps with Valverde's, because the players have been a lot more positionaly disciplined under Valverde (apart from Pique, who does what he wants).

When everybody is fit, we will defend in 4-4-0 formation (or 4-4-2 if Messi and Suarez decide to press their CB's). That's a given. We have been using this formation when defending in every game when Messi and Suarez were on the pitch. So regardless of who is on the wing when attacking, he will need to drop into LM/RM position when defending.

Attacking wise things get a little bit complicated. Why:

-Suarez prefers to be in position of the left striker, with ocassionaly going right, when Messi drifts left.
-Messi has a completely free role, so relying on him to be in a certain position is stupid.
-Alba wants free space on his wing.

So, IMHO, the best we can do is Coutinho as LM, 2 pivots, Dembele as RM advancing to RW when attacking (Vidal role against Espanyol), Suarez as a ST and Messi in a free role.

Excuse me? Valverde's Barcelona more positionally disciplined... Nope. The last time there was any real positional discipline was under Villanova.

Also, you're missing the point. It's not about the defensive shape, Barca have always transitioned to a 4-4-2 during a defensive phase, but rather what positions players pick up when in possession and what happens during thiis transition. This 4-2-3-1 looks good on paper, especially when Rakitic plays alongside Busquets (very positionally disciplined) but think about what happens when one of the forwards loses possession with your full backs up field... The opposition forwards get to play in 1 vs 1 situations or 3 vs 2 against slow as shit pivots. Watch the counters in the Alaves game again. This doesn't happen when you play with 3 central midfielders in balanced system (A system where Rakitic is not pulled wide to cover for Messi). Also, with a 3 man central midfield your centre backs have less incentive to push up high.

 

[MagIX]

We are in february, the problem is also that we are entering in the decisive period of the season, in the most key months of the season (feb-mai), where you have to be in shape and everything must work very very well. There is not too much room and time for experimenting with new formations, it is too risky. So far, with this module we are dominating, we cannot ruin everything now. New systems, new formations, new tactics need time,they are improved week by week, time is needed to refine the system and make everything work. The current system is not the result of improvisation, but of weeks and months of hard work. We cannot change everything right now, it would be absurd and unconscious.
We can make some changes, adjustments, but not revolutionize the whole system.