11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

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BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Jägermeister said:
Not quoting BBZ for space reasons...

About the argument that Messi and Griezmann are both short, how is that different to the situation we have now? How many goals did Suarez score with his head after corners or crosses?

Second, Griezmann and Dembele would of course draw defenders from Messi. Why would any opponent leave one of the best attackers in the world and one of the fastest and most skillful wingers unmarked?
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Cfs being short is one of the reasons why Real will win 4 CLs in the last 5 years, even though we actually have Messi in our team.
Everyone (in a CL) learned how to neutralize teams like Barca: crowd the middle and the end. Barca don't want to cross or do anything through flanks (except pass the ball back to the edge of the box to Messi and Iniesta) and that's it.

So, a part about short Cfs was: forget about a winning CL with Messi-Griezz duo, more or less.

About how Suarez and Messi are also shorter, well again, that is one of the reasons why are we knocked out almost easily in the last 6 out of 7 CLs.
Those 2 are good enough for La liga, mostly because we have Messi.

About Griezz and Dembele drawing players away.
Well, of course that someone will mark them.
BUT, when you have Luis in the box, 1-2 players are always around him, IN THE BOX.
That means that if an opponent has 4 defenders at the edge of the box (in the middle), 1-2 will mark Luis, and others 2 will mark Messi.
While, if you have 2 wide wingers, then more or less 4 central Cbs will mark Messi.

Even now, the opponents are NOT marking our flanks too much.
If Dembele gets the ball and runs, in majority of cases, he will need to pass the ball BACK on the edge of a box to Messi.
The same with Alba and other wingers.
In short: the opponents will always overcrowd the middle around the box since Messi is playing there and all balls from all positions are aimed at Messi who waits at the edge of a box.
It doesn't mean that NOBODY will mark our wingers, but the opponents are not "strict" on marking our wings as they are strict on marking and overcrowding (is this the right word?) the middle.

So, don't take literally my words that they are not marking wings etc...
But you get the point.
And now, since the middle is overcrowded, Luis was slightly drawing away at least SOME defenders from Messi.
While if you put Messi ALONE in the middle in 2018 and 2019, when Messi is dropping deep all the time, there is a high chance that Messi will be too far from the goal too often, with 5-6 defenders around the box infront of him, and Griezz and Dembele will be too far on wings, plus Dembele can't score.

Imo, our lineup will be the same as now, with some variations like:
Suarez-Messi
Griezz at a flank.

Or Griezz-Messi sometimes (when Luis is resting)
Or Suarez-Griezz (when Messi is resting).

Imo, an option with Griezmann-Messi SS-Dembele exists only at Barcaforum, and is miles away from a reality.

You guys have "decided" that Suarez is done and now you are creating some new lineups without him.
And yet, for example, Dembele didn't even play in the last 3 big matches:
Roma 0:3
Sevilla 5:0
Real 2:2

Suarez played 90, 90, 90 minutes in all 3 matches, scoring 3 goals.
So, imo, please stop with these ideas.
Luis Suarez will be a starter in 90% of matches in the next season.
You need to accept that.
And now, if you have some ideas how to fit both Suarez, Messi, Coutinho and then Griezmann and Dembele, we can discuss about those new ideas.
Imo, it makes zero sense to lose time on debates how Luis will be or should be benched.
That won't happen at least till a summer of 2019.

Antimadridista1 said:
He just posted on his instagram a picture of him reading a french newspaper talking about Tuchel's plans. He has a great relationship with Tuchel.
Click to expand...

I don't see that pic on his official Instagram btw.
 
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ebc_99

ebc_99

Active member
Height has nothing to do with it, we struggle in Europe and Real prosper because they have a great midfield and we don't. If we swap their midfield with ours then we win those Champions Leagues with our short forwards and they win nothing with their tall forwards. This is football, it is played with the feet and Real can control the midfield and we can't, when we could we won Champions League with Messi, Pedro and Villa up front their height was 5 7', 5 7' & 5 9'.
 
Luftstalag14

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Those who want to sell him: Who do you want to buy? Having a load of money (by the say there is no guarantee he will get our money back) does not mean you can buy any player you want.
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
ebc_99 said:
Height has nothing to do with it, we struggle in Europe and Real prosper because they have a great midfield and we don't. If we swap their midfield with ours then we win those Champions Leagues with our short forwards and they win nothing with their tall forwards. This is football, it is played with the feet and Real can control the midfield and we can't, when we could we won Champions League with Messi, Pedro and Villa up front their height was 5 7', 5 7' & 5 9'.
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We'll never know that.
In my eyes, regardless of your midfield, teams have figured out Barca's, Spain's and Pep's style. Big teams have figured us out...
Barca, Spain, Pep, all teams suck on a big stage past 2012'.
Either all these teams suddenly have weak midfields, or something changed...

In my eyes, Real has several weapons:
1. they can play shortpasses through the middle. If it works: awesome
2. if it doesn't work, they can play counters
3. if that doesn't work, they can play crosses since all opponents are crowding the middle around the box and leaving their flanks somewhat fragile. And then Real is just creating 10s of easy chances through crosses
4. if that doesn't work: they can try corners and set pieces

while Barca's gameplan is:
1. thy to score goals through the middle, the same as in 2009 or 2011.
If it doesn't work, repeat the same scenario for 90 minutes and hope for a miracle.
Oh, and we have 1 fast player, Dembele, that is more or less from our counterattacking gameplan.
So, counters? Nothing
Crosses and headers? Nothing
Corners? Nothing

Spain and Pep's teams are quite similar.
Awesome with shortpasses, weak in counters, crosses and set pieces.
Real is currently better for a CL level than both Barca, City and Spain.

So, it is not only about Real's midfield.
They are way more multidimensional on several levels.
About their midfield, not ONLY that they have a more creative midfield.
Modric is fast and creative.
Casemiro is strong and quite fast. Not too creative, though.
Kroos is strong and creative.

On the other hand: Iniesta-Rakitic-Busi.
Slow, slow, slow.
Weak, strong, weak.
Technically less creative than Real.

When Barca is buying a player, we are looking only at: technique.
When Real is buying a player, they are looking at: technique, pace, strength, several attacking weapons.
This is why they are on a verge of winning 4 CLs in 5 years.
Why we are winning La Ligas? well, not because of an awesome tactics, but mostly because of the one and only, Messi.
Remove Messi from maths and Real will finally win both La Liga and Cls in the future, sadly.
 
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B

Barca83

Banned
Luftstalag14 said:
Those who want to sell him: Who do you want to buy? Having a load of money (by the say there is no guarantee he will get our money back) does not mean you can buy any player you want.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not in favor of selling him so that we can keep Suarez in the starting 11 after Griezmann signs (which seems the most likely reason)

That being said, I wouldn't be too opppsed to either of the following if they were done right and we received an offer of at least 120m

1
-sell Dembele
-push Coutinho to left wing
-sign Griezmann
-use remaining transfer budget (along with funds from other sales) to upgrade midfield

2
-Sell Dembele to United for Martial plus cash
-sign Griezmann to play on the right with Martial on the left
-use remaining funds on a top class midfielder
 
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DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
I don't know what the club will do, but I have no faith in them being able to strengthen the squad or the midfield regardless of whether Dembele is sold for a big fee or not. We've talked about improving the midfield for three years now and all they've done is bring in Andre Gomes and Arda Turan.

Most likely we'll still have Rakitic and Suarez in the Starting Lineup until we hit the wall like in 2013/14. The next time we'll win the CL will be once the entire squad is uprooted.

Until then, playing good football, playing some youth and winning the league is everything this squad can achieve and we can hope for and I'm not even sure we'll do the first two points with Valverde.
 
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Luftstalag14

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Didn't Bartomeu say that we will not sell Dembele just last week or something?

Perhaps we are reaching out to clubs for a possible loan?

Where did people see his entourage confirming the club is contacting other clubs?

The whole thing just makes no sense. Perhaps Spanish press is just shit, including RAC1.
 
Ken_rosseneri

Ken_rosseneri

New member
Martial for what? crazy to think Martial is better than Dembele.. he's not in my eyes..

Loan him? for what? ridiculous
took him this long to adjust to Barca.. so loan him out only to bring him back and make him start all over in learning the Barca way? ridiculous
 
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