5 best teams this season?

[Ryu Hayabusa]

This is the only right answer.

Right, because all these teams are obviously better than the team which is current European champion, a team which has won every single official match this season except for those two draws against Freiburg and Leverkusen, matches in which that team was the overwhelmingly dominant side, while other teams which are considered at least second tier, if not even European prime tier competition, have been dominated in a way rarely seen before.
Obviously, your claim is absolutely based in reality...

 

[suckabov]

Right, because all these teams are obviously better than the team which is current European champion, a team which has won every single official match this season except for those two draws against Freiburg and Leverkusen, matches in which that team was the overwhelmingly dominant side, while other teams which are considered at least second tier, if not even European prime tier competition, have been dominated in a way rarely seen before.
Obviously, your claim is absolutely based in reality...

I know you might get a little touchy when it comes to your team, but those were two opinions in comparison with nearly the whole thread rating Bayern best or second. In that sense, no need to overreact. No one here really questions Bayern's undeniable strength. What you can't deny though is that there are teams who so far have gotten better results (Roma, Barca). Also, Bayern might have been dominant in those two draws, but weren't in some games they won (at least not as much as you would expect from them). All in all, they don't look just as strong as last season (which doesn't mean they don't have the potential to be in the next months). Dortmund for example have, in some games, looked much more spectacular (which doesn't mean they're better in the long run). Then, Bayern have one of the easiest CL groups, while teams like Arsenal and Dortmund, both of which have perhaps played the most exciting football this season, have to compete with each other and Napoli for a spot.
Long story short, performance-wise, you can make a case for a lot of teams. Bayern might still be favourites to win the Champions league, but there are other teams who so far, this season, have been as or perhaps a bit more impressive (perhaps also compared with the expectations for the respective teams). Again, I'm talking about results/performance and not quality as such.

 

[DonAK]

In my eyes Real is still a better team than Atletico.

But have they been better than them so far this season? Nope. Not even close.

That being said then I do agree with you, BUT thats not the question being asked here.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

I know you might get a little touchy when it comes to your team, but those were two opinions in comparison with nearly the whole thread rating Bayern best or second. In that sense, no need to overreact. No one here really questions Bayern's undeniable strength. What you can't deny though is that there are teams who so far have gotten better results (Roma, Barca). Also, Bayern might have been dominant in those two draws, but weren't in some games they won (at least not as much as you would expect from them). All in all, they don't look just as strong as last season (which doesn't mean they don't have the potential to be in the next months). Dortmund for example have, in some games, looked much more spectacular (which doesn't mean they're better in the long run). Then, Bayern have one of the easiest CL groups, while teams like Arsenal and Dortmund, both of which have perhaps played the most exciting football this season, have to compete with each other and Napoli for a spot.
Long story short, performance-wise, you can make a case for a lot of teams. Bayern might still be favourites to win the Champions league, but there are other teams who so far, this season, have been as or perhaps a bit more impressive (perhaps also compared with the expectations for the respective teams). Again, I'm talking about results/performance and not quality as such.

Nah, it was just the sheer arrogance of calling this list the only "right" one that drove me slightly over the edge for a second, not to mention the fact, that the whole claim in relation to the list in question, was outright absurd.

ps: In how far has Barca gotten better results than Bayern though? Could you clarify pls what you mean by that exactly?

 

[suckabov]

Nah, it was just the sheer arrogance of calling this list the only "right" one that drove me slightly over the edge for a second, not to mention the fact, that the whole claim in relation to the list in question, was outright absurd.

ps: In how far has Barca gotten better results than Bayern though? Could you clarify pls what you mean by that exactly?

Sure, I just meant league performance/results: Bayern have 2 draws and 10 wins in 11 games, Barca have 1 draw and 11 wins (including Madrid, yeah!) in 12. I know that's not much of an indicator, but that's why I said results-wise. Bayern remains a big CL favourite, but looking only and strictly at results so far, they're not clearly ahead of others. That will show once the more juicy CL phase starts.

 

[big_man]

Nah, it was just the sheer arrogance of calling this list the only "right" one that drove me slightly over the edge for a second, not to mention the fact, that the whole claim in relation to the list in question, was outright absurd.

ps: In how far has Barca gotten better results than Bayern though? Could you clarify pls what you mean by that exactly?

Scored more, conceded less in their equivalent fixtures.
Barca haven't lost a game yet this season despite playing top 5-10 European teams 3 times. Bayern have faced such a team once and lost 4-2.

 

[suckabov]

Yeah, I wasn't counting the respective supercup games as I've felt they're not really indicative. If we do, you're right, Barca fared better with a two-leg draw against Atletico than Bayern with a 4-2 loss to Dortmund.

 

[big_man]

Yeah, I wasn't counting the respective supercup games as I've felt they're not really indicative. If we do, you're right, Barca fared better with a two-leg draw against Atletico than Bayern with a 4-2 loss to Dortmund.

I think its fairly indicative because those teams are so strong, and so far ahead of the other opponents that one has to include them. I look at the Barca-Atletico/Real and Bayern-Dortmund/Chelsea games and saw very hard fought games. It's hard to ignore the quality of those ties.

 

[Bertus]

There was an interesting debate on french radio RMC.

Is Bayern stronger than last year?

The specialist of the german league said that he thinks the current Bayern is a bit weak compared to last year because:

- Last year Bayern could maintain a high level of play for 90 minutes.
- This year, Bayern can develop a "very" high level for 15-30 minutes, but can be more weak than last year the rest of the time.

 

[big_man]

There was an interesting debate on french radio RMC.

Is Bayern stronger than last year?

The specialist of the german league said that he thinks the current Bayern is a bit weak compared to last year because:



- Last year Bayern could maintain a high level of play for 90 minutes.
- This year, Bayern can develop a "very" high level for 15-30 minutes, but can be more weak than last year the rest of the time.

They give away more chances now and are more shaky defensively because they only play with one DM now instead of the 2 DM system of last season.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Scored more, conceded less in their equivalent fixtures.
Barca haven't lost a game yet this season despite playing top 5-10 European teams 3 times. Bayern have faced such a team once and lost 4-2.

You are talking about a pre-season match. The official match between Bayern and Dortmund is up next. We'll know more about Bayern's aptitude this season afterwards.

 

[suckabov]

You are talking about a pre-season match. The official match between Bayern and Dortmund is up next. We'll know more about Bayern's aptitude this season afterwards.

The comparison was between Barca and Bayern though, and results-wise, Barca fared better so far, even if you don't look at the supercup (although they did better there, too).

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

The comparison was between Barca and Bayern though, and results-wise, Barca fared better so far, even if you don't look at the supercup (although they did better there, too).

That were only true if Bayern and Barca would have squared off against the exact same sides so far, which obviously is impossible.
I mean, you can barely even compare the leagues. Saying Barca had the better results so far would be basing that claim on something we call 'Milchmädchenrechnung' in German, a term you know, I think
However, I see your point that if one were to throw better judgement out of the window and cling on to nothing but numbers without the urge to interpret them, then one could definitely say there is truth to that.
Otherwise, I think a comparison based on league results (while both teams are playing in different leagues) tells the story only up to a certain point and can easily be dismissed.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Stop fighting, folks, the widely-accepted source whoscored has listed the top 20 teams of the season so far:



R Team Tournament SpG Discipline Possession% Pass Success% AW Rating
1 Barcelona La Liga 17.7 170 67.3 89.3 11 7.37
2 Borussia Dortmund Bundesliga 21.5 91 55.4 81 26.6 7.34
3 Roma Serie A 15 282 57.4 86.5 13.7 7.21
4 Inter Serie A 15.6 242 52.8 84.6 16 7.2
5 Atletico Madrid La Liga 14.5 311 46.9 78.4 15 7.17
6 Bayern Munich Bundesliga 18.7 160 70.5 88.6 18.3 7.17
7 Bayer Leverkusen Bundesliga 15.1 181 46.2 80.1 29.7 7.15
8 Borussia M.Gladbach Bundesliga 12.4 211 55 85.9 22.2 7.15
9 Liverpool Premier League 14.4 160 52.5 83.8 14 7.1
10 Wolfsburg Bundesliga 14.6 144 52.7 81.8 25.3 7.09
11 Real Madrid La Liga 19.2 310 59.1 85.1 15.9 7.09
12 Napoli Serie A 15.7 152 56 86.5 11.2 7.09
13 Arsenal Premier League 14.3 162 55.1 85.8 15.5 7.08
14 Manchester City Premier League 16.7 180 59.7 86.9 16.1 7.08
15 Hamburger SV Bundesliga 15.7 180 50.1 79 29.9 7.07
16 Paris Saint Germain Ligue 1 16.7 201 64.1 87.9 14.3 7.06
17 Everton Premier League 13.8 190 56.6 83.2 16.7 7.03
18 Juventus Serie A 18.4 270 58.6 86.8 14.8 7.02
19 Hertha Berlin Bundesliga 11.9 230 48.2 80.1 27.1 7
20 Lille Ligue 1 12.7 220 54.2 81 17.8 7

 

[suckabov]

That were only true if Bayern and Barca would have squared off against the exact same sides so far, which obviously is impossible.
I mean, you can barely even compare the leagues. Saying Barca had the better results so far would be basing that claim on something we call 'Milchmädchenrechnung' in German, a term you know, I think
However, I see your point that if one were to throw better judgement out of the window and cling on to nothing but numbers without the urge to interpret them, then one could definitely say there is truth to that.
Otherwise, I think a comparison based on league results (while both teams are playing in different leagues) tells the story only up to a certain point and can easily be dismissed.

That, in turn, would be true only if I had said Barca in general has been better than Bayern, which I didn't It is true that results-wise (and yes, clinging on to numbers), there have been better teams than Bayern, Barca is one of them. Not sure if the "easier league" or "easier opponents" card is playable at the moment, as Real Madrid is a stronger opponent than anyone Bayern have faced so far, and Barca beat them. The only relatively strong teams Bayern have faced are Leverkusen, Chelsea and City. Chelsea was beaten thanks to penalties, Leverkusen resulted in a draw. They beat City comfortably, but in that match it was more City's weaknesses and their lack of effort that were striking than Bayern's dominance. (Not trying to diminish the victory though). Now for performance in general. Bayern were bone-crushingly dominant in some matches, which was impressive. In others, they didn't impress me too much (Wolfsburg etc). Same goes for Barca by the way. In comparison, both teams had their lapses of brilliance and phases of dullness, while I think Bayern are a bit weaker than last season while Barca are a bit stronger. Generally speaking, Bayern is probably still the best team in Europe - especially considering depth - but this hasn't become too visible this season, so far, if you look at results. As I said, we might see it becoming more obvious in the later stages of CL.
If we want to draw comparisons within one league, (so that nobody can accuse me of Milchmädchenlogik) I do think Dortmund has had a few games in which they were more spectacular than Bayern. (Not to mention they have the more difficult task in CL and haven't suffered too much from the injury streak). I also think they could harm Bayern when they face each other as their football seems like the ideal antidote to Bayern's. It's extremely hard, perhaps even impossible for them to keep up with Bayern throughout the whole season though. We'll see.

Stop fighting, folks, the widely-accepted source whoscored has listed the top 20 teams of the season so far:



R Team Tournament SpG Discipline Possession% Pass Success% AW Rating
1 Barcelona La Liga 17.7 170 67.3 89.3 11 7.37
2 Borussia Dortmund Bundesliga 21.5 91 55.4 81 26.6 7.34
3 Roma Serie A 15 282 57.4 86.5 13.7 7.21
4 Inter Serie A 15.6 242 52.8 84.6 16 7.2
5 Atletico Madrid La Liga 14.5 311 46.9 78.4 15 7.17
6 Bayern Munich Bundesliga 18.7 160 70.5 88.6 18.3 7.17
7 Bayer Leverkusen Bundesliga 15.1 181 46.2 80.1 29.7 7.15
8 Borussia M.Gladbach Bundesliga 12.4 211 55 85.9 22.2 7.15
9 Liverpool Premier League 14.4 160 52.5 83.8 14 7.1
10 Wolfsburg Bundesliga 14.6 144 52.7 81.8 25.3 7.09
11 Real Madrid La Liga 19.2 310 59.1 85.1 15.9 7.09
12 Napoli Serie A 15.7 152 56 86.5 11.2 7.09
13 Arsenal Premier League 14.3 162 55.1 85.8 15.5 7.08
14 Manchester City Premier League 16.7 180 59.7 86.9 16.1 7.08
15 Hamburger SV Bundesliga 15.7 180 50.1 79 29.9 7.07
16 Paris Saint Germain Ligue 1 16.7 201 64.1 87.9 14.3 7.06
17 Everton Premier League 13.8 190 56.6 83.2 16.7 7.03
18 Juventus Serie A 18.4 270 58.6 86.8 14.8 7.02
19 Hertha Berlin Bundesliga 11.9 230 48.2 80.1 27.1 7
20 Lille Ligue 1 12.7 220 54.2 81 17.8 7

We weren't really fighting, but thanks for proving my point :barca scarf: