But you argued passionately for signing Coutinho saying he is exactly what we need. Why the sudden 180 turn after just a couple of weeks?
7 - Philippe Coutinho - V1
- Thread starter AnfieldEd
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But you argued passionately for signing Coutinho saying he is exactly what we need. Why the sudden 180 turn after just a couple of weeks?
BBZ8800
Senior Member
No, I still love Coutinho.
But NOT in a formation with Dembele.
Or not with Iniesta.
I would like to see Coutinho in EV's 442: Coutinho-Rakitic-Busqutes-Paulinho/Gomes/new random workhorse type of a player.
Till now, he either played with Iniesta on a field, or as a RW, or in 433 with Paco-Luis-Messi in attack.
But even without changes in formations, he will need to improve some aspects of his game, though.
I don't like a current Coutinho (and Dembele) and how people would play them against Chelsea. (Coutinho can't play).
We need to play with players who are the best in this moment.
These guys have potential, but are miles from reaching it.
Until then, play with proven guys more.
@BBZ
U can stop ur sarcasm and reply normal.
Barca had always problems vs teams playing like this.
Messi,coutinho etc will do better vs better teams cause they get more space usually on these games.
Getafe played very aggressive always putting high pressure on the player carrying the ball. Thats something like messi, couthino etc are very uncomfortble with.
This haas nothing to do with the team chemistry imo...
For Now i think valverde hasnt figured out how to put the team together. Im missing a system over the last matches and so the players themselves not really knowing where they belong.
Alcacer was a good example today...
U can stop ur sarcasm and reply normal.
Barca had always problems vs teams playing like this.
Messi,coutinho etc will do better vs better teams cause they get more space usually on these games.
Getafe played very aggressive always putting high pressure on the player carrying the ball. Thats something like messi, couthino etc are very uncomfortble with.
This haas nothing to do with the team chemistry imo...
For Now i think valverde hasnt figured out how to put the team together. Im missing a system over the last matches and so the players themselves not really knowing where they belong.
Alcacer was a good example today...
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Dembele? He didnt play with Dembele. You argued how he would be such a great fit, how he would adapt so easily and here you are constantly complaining about him. Look, we have Dembele, you also want Griezmann. We have Suarez. We have Messi. This idea that all these players will just be benched in order to fit workhorses into the team is just fantasy. It wont happen. These superstars are on crazy wages. They are not going to be benched for some mediocre workhorse. As long as you argue we should sign more attacking superstars, we will not play with 4 midfielders with 3 defensive workhorses.
behindbrowneyes
Well-known member
This guy came injured, there was no pre-season and games every 3/4 days. Not easy to adapt under these circumstances. The whole team was bad today, especially in first half (like many times under Valverde). Cou is the only one apart from Messi who is dangerous outside the box which will be golden in games like this. He won't score every game, but he will score screamers and make it easier for us against teams that defend aggressively and very organised. Getafe and Guaita did very well today.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
He had an awesome debut.
... when he played without Iniesta and Dembele in a team.
Oh, wait. That's exactly how I would want Barca to play like.
In all other matches he played in some kung fu formations and lineup where we lacked balance.
MagIX
Senior Member
We have Messi, Suarez, Iniesta, Dembele and Couthino. Unrealistic to see them playing all together.
Imo: Couthino is the natural replacement of Iniesta (34 y.o.), that will take place in stages
In your opinion, wihch 11 with these metionned players ?
Great post !
Also he hadn't played throughout January , plus he's been played in three different positions in the few games he's been used and with different partners ...
You are talking about the 20 minutes he played as a substitute with Vidal? You are clinging to 20 minutes as a sub when we were two goals up already! Its total madness to start knee jerk reactions comparing Coutinho to Messi, Eto'o and Ronaldinho based on those minutes were he did nothing special. He didnt play with Iniesta and Dembele today either. Paco simply replaced Vidal. So when Vidal played it was "awesome" and Messi comparisons were made. And when Paco replaced Vidal as today, you think Coutinho ruins everything and he is a big burden. Its just going from one extreme to another.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
[MENTION=22413]Ousmane Dembélé[/MENTION] asked the same thing.
Coutinho played in his first match in this lineup, where everything worked well (even though for only 25 minutes):
Suarez-Messi
Coutinho-Rakitic-Busquets-Paulinho
This is classical EV's 442 with 2 workhorses+Busquets and 1 playmaker (Iniesta/Coutinho).
So, from seen till now this season:
1. when Barca plays 442 with Iniesta and workhorses, we are usually awesome
2. when we change to 433 or 442 with with less workhorses, we are not THAT good usually
About Coutinho:
1. he played awesome, although in a small sample, when Barca played it's best EV's 442 with 2 workhorses (Rakitic-Paulinho/Gomes)
2. in all other matches, Coutinho played in either some 433s, or as a RW or in some formations with 3 attacking players infront of him, like today: Messi, Suarez, Paco
The same reply for Ousmane.
Cou played awesome, when Barca played in it's best formation from 2017/18 season.
Jombi, back to your post, about a part where I said Coutinho ruins everything:
Well, my opinion is that we had a nice working machine prior to January.
If you want to put Coutinho in the team, he should play in Iniesta's spot and Iniesta needs to be benched.
But EV wants to play both of them.
In that sense, Cou is a problem since we hadn't that problem in December.
If Iniesta will get benched, Coutinho won't be a problem, since we'll be able to play our 442 with Cou-Busi-Raki-Paulinho.
But, not only that we need to bench Iniesta to make our team working again, we also need to bench Dembele.
As I have wrote above, I am a fan of EV's 442 with good balance and strong defense.
If you put Cou and Iniesta on a field together=that is not anymore EV's balanced 442.
If you put Cou at Iniesta's position and Dembele on a right, that is also quite a different formation from EV's balanced 442.
So, to some extent:
= we can't play BOTH Coutinho and Dembele and play EV's balanced 442.
We can play it only with Iniesta and Dembele on a bench.
If you want to play both Coutinho and Dembele, then we'll need to find some new formation and spend months of testing whether it can work.
... and that is exactly what are we doing now.
Let's hope that our advantage over AM and other clubs will be big enough until we either:
1. find a formation to fit all these players
2. or until we will give up from tests and go back to basics (EV's 442)
So, I'll write my opinion one more time:
= let's go back to EV's 442 right away, and:
1. either bench Iniesta and Dembele
2. or bench Coutinho and Dembele and put them into matches in the 2nd half
For now, all these combinations are causing problems:
1. moving away from EV's 442
2. playing both Iniesta and Coutinho
3. playing both Iniesta, Coutinho and Dembele
4. playing both Coutinho and Dembele
(The sample is small in some combinations, but still...)
As explained above...
Some will need to get benched.
Suarez-Messi
Iniesta/Coutinho-Busi-Raki-Paulinho/a random similar Cm
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Its absurd and ridiculous to make these crazy comparisons to Messi and Ronaldinho based on 20 minute as a sub against Espanyol. No he was not "awesome" and not some type of new Messi in those 20 minutes and he was not horrendous today when Paco played either.
You argue strongly to move away from 442 and play a more unbalanced team by advocating for the signing of attacking superstars like Coutinho and Griezmann who cost so much and has such a high wage (like Suarez, Messi and Dembele) that they will always play.
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